Marines Singing!

Published On: July 13, 2015|Categories: MRFF's Inbox|13 Comments|

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Mikey,

 

Why is this ok – Marines singing frozen let it go

 

But this is not – America’s Marines Singing “Days of Elijah”

(name withheld)


 

Dear (name withheld),

After all this time, (name withheld), do you really think the key issue is the singing? The SINGING??!!

 

Really?

 

Really, (name withheld)?

 

Really?

 

 

SMH,

Mike “Golden Pipes” Challman


 

Mike,

 

The problem is that Mikey automatically assumes that if Marines or whomever, like with the video of them singing Days of Elijah, that they are there under duress and not of their own free choice. Just by looking at the video you can tell that they are wanting to be there by how they are singing the song Days of Elijah.

 (name withheld)


 

No (name withheld) – the problem is that you simply can’t fathom that there might ever be a time, place, or manner when it might be inappropriate for the singing of Days of Elijiah in a military environment.  Similarly, another problem is that you watch the Elijiah video and presume to know with certainty what every Marine present is thinking.

Still SMH,
Mike “Crooner” Challman

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13 Comments

  1. Connie July 13, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    I watched both videos. I’m having difficulty believing any claim that there is no difference between the two.

    One is set in a lounge where the soldiers were relaxing. The second is set at an official gathering as evidenced by the number of people standing in the at ease position. The second video was not of church so to my mind many people were forced to participate in a religion not their own. To be honest there were several soldiers in the second video who were VERY into the song. The rest of the group; not so much.

    A person who doesn’t see the differences is blind to the fact that anyone outside their tribe/church is human and deserving of equal rights.

    You all at MRFF are nicer than me and that’s where I’ll stop. Thank you for doing what you do.

  2. Yeshua Warrior July 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    Dear Connie,

    I have already sent this link to MRFF to show them the origin of where this video came from, this is a weekly participatory worship service that takes place at Camp Pendleton called “Faithful Warrior Worship” and when I look at the video just about all of the Marines are enthusiastically worshiping the Lord as they sing the song with no bayonet in their backs forcing them to do it. Could it be that there are actually Marines who love to worship the Lord on a weekly basis, without being forced to, YES! MRFF and Mikey Weinstein make it seem that all military personnel everywhere around the world are all forced to worship Jesus, which is absolute nonsense and a lie, granted, it may take place here or there, but it does not happen everywhere around the world. Check out this link: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/18/hurrah-the-viral-video-of-marines-singing-a-popular-christian-worship-song-you-just-have-to-see/

  3. Yeshua Warrior July 13, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Oh Connie, by the way, worship does not only happen just in a church, but many Christians meet in homes around the world and worship and hear the Word taught, or in school cafeterias that are rented by churches, I have even worshiped the Lord outside at the headwaters where the Jordan River begins in Israel. Worship is not confined to a building!!

  4. Mark Sebree July 13, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Yeshua Warrior,

    You asked the wrong question, as usual. You should not be asking if there are Marines that enthusiastically worship on a regular basis as you do, since that answer is always going to be “yes” because of the diversity of our volunteer military.

    The question that you should be asking is if there were any Marines at the service that were forced to be there either by implicit or explicit orders by their superiors. If the Marines are in ranks and standing at ease or at attention, the answer is almost always going to be “yes”. That same diversity that I mentioned earlier is why religion should NOT be forced onto the service men and women by their superiors. You are going to be forcing some service members to follow beliefs that they do not themselves practice or subscribe to.

    And just because you do not see a physical “bayonet”, that does not mean that there is not a threat of force being applied against the service members. Company/Squadron formations are MANDATORY unless you are on watch or have a valid excuse. Not making formations is punishable under the UCMJ and regulations since that it is a lawful order to attend them. And in formation, you cannot object to some overly religious officer commanding you to participate in religious exercises, even though him doing so is against regulations. What’s more, blowing the whistle on him or her is more likely to get YOU punished rather than the officer. That is why the MRFF exists, to give voice to the powerless, and call onto the carpet and hold accountable officers and enlisted who misuse their authority to impose their beliefs onto those who are subordinate to them.

    Here is a simple test. If those Marines were singing the praises of Allah in formation, would you have the same attitude? If you think that they should be forced to sing the praises of Allah even if they are not Muslim just because their CO is one and wants to convert as many people to his religion and denomination as he can, then at least you are not a hypocrite. If you say that it is not right to force these Marines to participate in such a ceremony, but it is okay to force these same Marines to participate in a Christian ceremony, then you are a blatant hypocrite. The only thing that change was the religion, not the action.

    And by the way, while worship can happen almost everywhere, it is not likely to happen en masse in a formation unless commanded by a superior officer.

    Mark Sebree

  5. Yeshua Warrior July 13, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Mark,

    Have you watched the video, these Marines are not in formation, they are arm in arm swaying back and forth while singing, does not look like being forced there to do this. I swear, everyone has been drinking the Mikey Weinstein kool-aid, you will only see what Mikey wants you to see or thinks he is seeing. Every military person is being coerced to be at a chapel or worship service. The article I posted states that this worship service happens at the same time every week and is posted on the Camp Pendleton website.

  6. Mark Sebree July 15, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    As a matter of fact, I did. And I saw what you did not. These marines were NOT in a chapel. They were NOT in someplace that would normally be associated with a religious service. People do not wear camelbacks to religious services in most cases. It looked more like they were they for orders, a test or class of some sort, or possibly a briefing on something that was affecting the entire company. Almost ever position had a pad of paper and a pen at it. That is also not seen in chapels or religious ceremonies.

    I did see quite a number of people who were not enjoying themselves. They were at ease, and probably not really singing. When you listen to the audio, it was obvious that the singing was mainly coming from the front. Even allowing for the acoustics of everyone facing forward and the sound bouncing off the wall, some of the people the camera man passed should have been audible if they were in fact singing. The camera was only a couple feet from some of them, which means that the mic was as well.

    These Marines were there because they were commanded to be, which means that they would have been punished if they disobeyed that lawful order. And THAT is the metaphorical “bayonet” that you alluded to previously.

    That song, that service was inappropriate. That was not the time nor the place for it. There was NOTHING that independently identified what was happening as being a religious service. If you think that there was, apart for the song and the fact that the words were being projected onto the screen, please point it out.

    As far as the article goes, besides the fact that I, like most people, do not consider The Blaze to be a credible news source, what is there in the video which indicates that it was taken at the time and place mentioned on the Camp Pendleton website?

  7. Yeshua Warrior July 17, 2015 at 9:40 am

    Well Mark, I like many people do not consider the Daily Kos to be a credible news source either!
    Just gets me that every time soldiers are worshipping, according to MRFF, they are always there against their will. Worship does not always have to take place in a chapel or church as I have stated before, maybe the base chapel was being used at the time, did you ever consider that? I have worshiped God in churches, school cafeterias, hotel banquet rooms, outside while in Israel, I have even worshiped in the men’s stall while taking a crap singing worship songs to myself! I even worship in my car and have had the presence of God fill my car while driving to work!

  8. Yovonne July 17, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    Good for you, “Yeshua Warrior”, you’re more than welcome to worship however and wherever you want, just so long as no one else is compelled to do so as well or be subjected to your worship in the workplace/at their place of duty. By your words to Mr Sebree, you make it obvious that you don’t give a flying flip whether or not someone else’s rights are being abrogated, so long as you and your ilk get to force your religion onto others. Thankfully, we have a Constitution and Bill of Rights to ensure EVERYONE’s rights and the good people of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to back that up and hold the feet of you and your ilk to the proverbial fire when you transgress against the rights of others.

    How about you do your worshipping on your own and stop attempting to impede the efforts of folks o the Military Religious Freedom Foundation who are working to protect EVERYONE’S rights, not just the rights of people who think like you do?

  9. Mark Sebree July 17, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    Yovonne, you get it. YW, you don’t.

    I never claimed that Daily Kos was a credible news. And I did not cite them. You, however, did cite the Blaze. And you still did not answer the question I asked you how you knew that the video was taken at the time and place mentioned on the Camp Pendleton website.

    This is Camp Pendleton, located outside of San Diego, CA. A major Maine Base. That means that many of the Marines that have families live on base. If this was a worship service, where are all the spouses and children? Or do you really believe that the marines with families would not attend a worship service without their families. I did not see anyone in civilian clothes or younger than 18.

    I never said that you or anyone else couldn’t worship whatever deity you wanted where ever you wanted in whatever way you wanted. However, no matter what you or your religion says, you do NOT have the right to demand that anyone else worship as you do, nor do you have the right to use any power and authority you have over them to force them to follow your beliefs. And that does double when you work for the government and are on the job and/or in uniform.

    MRFF does something that you do not. They pay attention to what people say, and the circumstances of that worship. They do not act unless someone complains to them that they are experiencing religious coercion, or a major military official blatantly, publicly, and usually while being recorded publicly endorses or appears to endorse one religious belief over another while speaking or appearing to speak for the US Government or any branch of the military.

    There are many elements in that video which show that it probably was not a worship service, especially if it was where you say it was. The fact that the Marines had camelbacks on. The fact that there were almost all of them had pads of paper and pens in front of them. The fact that a number of them were not singing, and you could not hear them when the mic was close. The fact that there were no religious trappings in the front. The posture of a number of the Marines. The fact that the setup was indicative of a class or a briefing. The fact that there were no youths or spouses there. All of these things would have been evident to you if you had actually paid attention to the details. And given these facts, that means that it is a certainty that not everyone there was a Christian, and thus it means that they were having someone else’s religion imposed on them and they could not leave.

  10. Connie July 18, 2015 at 11:57 am

    YW

    I am amazed. Peoples can worship where ever they want and don’t necessarily have to have a church?

    OK – I’m not amazed. I am insulted at your ability to doubt anyones intelligence who doesn’t believe EXACTLY the same way you do. And while I defend your right to worship as you see fit I also defend everyone else who doesn’t agree with your particular flavor of God Koolaid.

    See, based on every comment I’ve read of yours, you want all peoples to follow YOUR flavor of God; anyone who doesn’t isn’t a Twue Christian (trademark pending). It is your intolerance that I fight against; it is why I am a gadfly to your backside and will address every word salad you toss onto this site.

    As for our comment exchange; the second video is not a church service on a Sunday. It could be a class, a briefing, a collection of soldiers getting ready for their day… I don’t know as I was not in the group after the cameras were turned off. And from what I can tell, you weren’t there either. I did see some soldiers very happy to be singing about their God. I saw others who did not share the exuberance and were even uncomfortable about being filmed. You did not see those people? Doesn’t surprise me.

    My late husband had a run in with Christians like yourself YW. He bore the scars of their attentions until the day he died. Because of their poor behavior you get no second chances. Learn to accept that others exist and that they have a right to exist or close up your shop and hide because WE are not going away.

    I learned to share in the first grade. Perhaps you need to repeat a class or two?

  11. Yeshua Warrior July 23, 2015 at 11:59 am

    Dear Connie,

    First of all there is no God Koolaid as you call it and there is only one “flavor” of God, the one that is portrayed in the bible, found in the old and new testaments, that is the one I follow and it is He that has set down how men and women ought to live their lives.

    Regarding the video of Marines singing, you point makes no point at all, I have seen people in my own church who do not look like they want to be there, but they are there because someone brought them or they are there that by being there they may make brown points with God. The same can be said when I was a professional sports chaplain working with major and minor league baseball players. Some were there because they wanted to be, and some came thinking that if they did come, God then might bless them with a higher batting average or more home runs. You talk about that they were in uniform and not in civilian clothes at a “worship service” well I have never seen a military chaplain on duty performing a service in civilian clothes, have you?

    Dear Mark,

    Yes, I have heard of Camp Pendleton, my deceased uncle, was stationed at Camp Pendleton before he retired as a Lt Col. in the Marines, and I am sure my father, my uncles brother did basic training there before being sent to Guadalcanal in WWII, as well as my brother and cousin before they were sent to Vietnam, so I am well aware of Camp Pendleton. The article I sent you said that this weekly service is posted on the Camp Pendleton website! Again I state, why does MRFF always have the assumption, and we all know what to assume means, you make an ass out of you and me, that if soldiers are worshipping Christ, they are there because they are ordered there. Have you ever considered that some soldiers may be ordered to attend a Jewish service or a Muslim service, much like what is happend in our school systems today?

  12. Mark Sebree July 23, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    You know where Camp Pendleton is. Well, that is a start. However, you never addressed any of the point I brought up about that “service”. Like why there were no civilians or children there, why all the Marines were wearing camelbacks, why they all had pads of paper in front of them, why were there no religious accoutrements, and so on.

    The MRFF does NOT make the assumption that you claim, that is only an assumption on your part. You seem to be making a lot of them. They act on complaints by soldiers, sailors, and airmen of having religion imposed on them by their superiors. Thus, the MRFF does not have to assume anything because they have already been told that it is happening by those who’s rights are being infringed upon.

    And while it is possible that some military might have Jewish or Muslim services imposed on them, it is unlikely because both religions are in an extreme minority in the military and thus do not have the command structure to back up such antics. And it that did happen, and a complaint was filed with the MRFF, they would treat the situation the same as they treat fundamentalist evangelical officers and senior enlisted who work to impose their religion onto their subordinates.

    By the way, I am not familiar with any public school systems trying to impose either Jewish or Muslim beliefs onto the children in their charge. Just as in the military, neither of these beliefs have the numbers or the power structure anywhere in the USA to do this with the impunity that fundamentalist evangelical Christians are always trying to use.

  13. Yeshua Warrior July 25, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Dear Mark,

    You are not aware of public schools imposing Muslim beliefs on students in their charge, let me educate you with these links:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/texas-public-school-students-don-burqas-learn-that-muslim-terrorists-are-freedom-fighters/
    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/18/taxpayer-funded-school-faces-massive-backlash-for-covered-girl-challenge-hijab-day/
    http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/high-school-holds-hijab-day-for-students/
    http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/01/us-school-forces-girls-follow-islamic-dress-code-field-trip/
    This is only a sampling Mark of what is going on in our public schools, while at the same time teachers are not allowed to have a bible on their desk and schools are not allowing Christians to have a bible club that meets after school. In Tennessee, they are trying to get history books into the school system there that praises Islam and rewrites the history of Islam all funded by Muslim countries. Time to wake Mark along with this country, Christianity is not the enemy here, Islam is!

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