Military Religious Freedom Foundation http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org Protecting the Constitutional Guarantee of Separation of Church and State in the United States Military Thu, 28 Aug 2014 22:01:00 +0000 en-US hourly 1 Your grave will be a public toilet http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/your-grave-will-be-a-public-toilet/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/your-grave-will-be-a-public-toilet/#comments Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:50:55 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20086 When you croak weinstein you best have a unmarked grave? Know alot of good folks who will love to piss and take a dump on it if not. The MRFF is just like ISIS but even worse. You love the muslims better than your own American Christians? We all know why. Because you hide behind the constitution? play hide and seek with The Truth of Christ’s Gospel. You pretend to help the troops. But you only want to keep The Good News from us and our families. Yes Jesus was a Jew. But not the deceiver kind you are. Sooner your in hell the sooner His Will Be Done. Give it up weinstein and surrender to His Word. Or else you burn. Very disrespectfully,, 7 US Army Noncoms and our wifes and children


Dear cowardly 7 US Army Noncoms who speak trash on behalf of their children while hiding behind a fake email address,

I’m confused by your message. Why would Christ endorse stupidity? Why would a loving Jesus want you to spew garbage like this and claim to do so on behalf of children who don’t truly understand hatred? Unless you teach it to them, as you apparently do, your children don’t suffer the narrowness of vision and understanding that allows you to be such bigots. There is still hope for them, I trust, but I fear that each day they spend listening to the mewling and puking you indulge in will mean years of therapy for your poor kids if they ever want, unlike you, to enjoy a full, loving life.

You are arrogant enough to suggest that Mr. Weinstein “surrender to His Word.” Where in “His Word” have you been taught to speak this filth? In the name of your children I suggest you go back and take a look at “His Word” and think about the damage you’re doing at home. Mikey Weinstein has not been injured by your cowardice, but your children are suffering daily.

Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)


Dear Sgt,

I guess the Army really has changed if NCOs are so disrespectful to superior officers.

I’m curious – what if your superior officer was a Muslim, Jew or Atheist – would you follow his/her orders to go into battle? Would you follow their orders to go into battle against Christians? If not, get out of the Army.

It seems to me you shouldn’t be in any US government job since you seem to place your religion above the Constitution.

Furthermore, I wonder what kind of religion encourages such filth. Hmm – seems like extremist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims.

Stop sucking off the government teat while you piss on the Constitution.

Signed, your superior officer and an Atheist.


Slimy 7:
When you croak, you will be forgotten by all. Your body will disintegrate, your flesh will rot off its bones, and it will be good riddance, There is no god who would claim the likes of you, and that includes Jesus.

Signed,
A truly American veteran and supporter of MRFF


Hey (name withheld),

I get a kick out of every email you have sent so far. You’ve been very creative in the names you make up and then delete them so we can’t respond to you personally. What is it about you? Do you chuckle when your imagination creates fake emails that you think may be hurtful or proud when you think you speak for Jesus?

I, personally, look forward to your emails because you have become the poster boy for exactly what we are fighting against; the fundamental, self-righteous, judgmental, hateful, ant-Semitic, bigoted people that call themselves Christians. You are the embodiment of everything a Christian isn’t because Jesus would never say nor condone the hate you spew.

You see, I’m an ordained minister and I show my Christian friends your emails. We want to know who your preacher is because he is leading you down the path of destruction.

SHALL WE PLAY A GAME? (the voice of Joshua in WarGames) Keep track of the number of things that you do according to His teachings.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Matthew 16:24

Ye have heard that it hath been said; Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same? Matthew 5:43-46

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2

And God said unto him (Solomon), Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, NOR HAST ASKED THE LIFE OF THINE ENEMIES; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee. 1Kings 3:11-12

When a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit comes into their lives and transforms them.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 7:15-19

And what are the fruit of the Spirit?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:35-37

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Matthew 12:30-31

Ok, game over. You lose. Looks like you and your buddies aren’t following Jesus at all.

When you write your evil words to Mikey, you are writing them to all of us that are on the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters of the MRFF of which 75% of us are Christians. I, personally, find your email vile, disgusting and I am shocked that a person professing to be a Christian would write such things.

So, you can either get on your knees and beg forgiveness for your hate mail or continue sending them and let God be the judge of your words.

As for those that are going to hell, I suggest you read Matthew 5. Jesus gave us His criteria for who is going to heaven and who is going to hell and you’re not even close.

I will pray for you to come out of your church that is giving you false teachings bordering on apostasy and conduct yourself in a manner pleasing to Him, before it is too late.

Pastor Joan

Advisory Board Member

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8/27/14 MRFF Hate Mail Readings Chapter 14 – The Mail Never Stops http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82714-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-14-the-mail-never-ends/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82714-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-14-the-mail-never-ends/#comments Wed, 27 Aug 2014 23:22:53 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20077 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82714-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-14-the-mail-never-ends/feed/ 0 8/25/14 BREAKING: Mikey, MRFF Invited to Testify Before Congress! http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82514-breaking-mikey-mrff-invited-to-testify-before-congressddd/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82514-breaking-mikey-mrff-invited-to-testify-before-congressddd/#comments Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:00:35 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20063 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/82514-breaking-mikey-mrff-invited-to-testify-before-congressddd/feed/ 0 8/22/14 Mikey Weinstein Invited to Speak at Military College of the University of North Georgia & Duke University http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2014/Duke_8-21-14.html http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2014/Duke_8-21-14.html#comments Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:30:36 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20057 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2014/Duke_8-21-14.html/feed/ 0 you fucking piece of shit jew http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/you-fucking-piece-of-shit-jew/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/you-fucking-piece-of-shit-jew/#comments Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:31:19 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20054 jewboy don’t you evercome back to our state. Your not wanted here. Keep you godam mffr hands off our […]]]> > jewboy don’t you evercome back to our state. Your not wanted here. Keep you godam mffr hands off our Holy Univ. of No. Georgia Cadets corps. you fucking jew muslam queer loving jew. servant of satan. Why don’t you eat some of your jewbread soked with the blood of innocent Christian children? To make it tasty for you you jew of jews. We don’t eat your jew children wienstein. How you like it if we eat your jew children wienstein? Our church met last night to disgust all about you right here in our back yard in Ga. We all hope you choke to death eating your little piece of jewbread. Then burn for all ages in hell. Jesus Christ Rules and His Kingdom Come at UNG Corps!

(name withheld)


Dear (name withheld),

Oh, my dear poor ignorant fool,

Jefferson Davis lives, indeed! My, how the rot of stupidity seeps out of your every pore. There’s no value in trying to respond to your cruelty, so one can only express pity for the poor, wounded bigot’s heart that weighs so heavy in your chest. My mother, one of the sweetest Irish women who ever walked the earth, would on occasion, when faced with something so wrong, so awful or so painful as to be incomprehensible to her, say “Jesus wept!” Reading this contemptible pile of garbage you’ve vomited at a man brave enough to go to Georgia and speak to your neighbors respectfully, and seeing that you have the audacity to spew this stuff at him in the name of Christ gives me a new understanding of what my mother meant. Looking into the darkness of your heart, how can Jesus do anything other than weep?

Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)


Dear (name withheld),

Since Mikey is busy protecting our service members from the very likes of you, I’ll respond on his behalf.

1. Who dropped dead and made you King of Georgia, to say who can and cannot enter that great state?
2. How ignorant can you be, to not know that Jesus was a Jew, born a Jew, always a Jew, and still a Jew?
3. And, just how bent, twisted, warped and manipulated can you be, to still believe that deliberate lie about Jews killing Christian babies to make matzah from their blood? It’s called a “blood libel” not just because it was a libel (lie) about blood, but moreso because it was a lie made up for an excuse to murder Jews and spill Jewish blood.

You are a blood thirsty, hate filled Dominionist. Now, go look that up, so you can recognize just who and what you are, and just who and what MRFF, Mikey Weinstein, and his staff, volunteers, and supporters are fighting, because tag: You’re it. You’re just lucky you’re not in the military, or you would be on our list of targets for legal battle.

Now, we have work to do. We have to defend our military members for anyone who wants to shove his or her religion down anyone else’s throat, and it happens to turn out that, statistically, the overwhelming majority of shovers share your mentality, though few are quite as twisted nor as ignorant.

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GAINSVILLE TIMES – Universities not immune to religious controversy http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/gainsville-times-universities-not-immune-to-religious-controversy/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/gainsville-times-universities-not-immune-to-religious-controversy/#comments Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:41:05 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20036 Selected Article Excerpt:

The issue of religion in schools doesn’t end with the 12th grade. Public universities also have to tread carefully when it comes to expressions of faith.

While a letter from the American Humanist Association has sparked a recent controversy over prayer at Chestatee High School, the University of North Georgia has been dealing with some religious expression issues of its own.

Administrators recently met with Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, to discuss the use of prayer at university Corps of Cadets meetings.

Weinstein said he sent a letter to the university after receiving a complaint from students that the corps chaplain, who is a student, gave Christian prayers at corps meetings.

In the letter, Weinstein addressed the prayers and also said the group’s chaplain corps was not inclusive of faiths other than Christianity.

Weinstein asked for a face-to-face meeting in the letter, and the university responded by inviting Weinstein to the school to talk with administrators and students.

“We actually invited (Weinstein) to come to campus in the spirit of having open dialogue about this concern, and we appreciate the information that he presented,” said Kate Maine, director of university relations at UNG. “We will take it into consideration.”

Weinstein said he is normally met with hostility over issues of religious expression because his group is, in his own words, “militant,” and he was pleasantly surprised to be invited to the school.

“We got the chance to explain who we are and what we are doing,” he said. “They weren’t offended that we were there. They were open to listen. … On a scale of one to 10 in regard to productivity and positivity, I give it a 16.”

Click to read article

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LEAVE IT TO a kike named Whiningboysteen http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/leave-it-to-a-kike-named-whiningboysteen/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/leave-it-to-a-kike-named-whiningboysteen/#comments Wed, 20 Aug 2014 15:07:53 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20033 Universities not immune to religious controversy

you ever come back here to Georgia again Mickey Whinerboystien and we of Christ pray that Lord Jesus will strike you down with a holy bolt of thunder and burnted you to a hebe crisp. Leave UNG alone. And let Jesus rule all as it was always mean to be for America and the UNG cadets Corpse and the students there too mickey moneylover nosey jew. my God son is a cadet there and he is bccced on this you shyster kike

(name withheld)


Dear (name withheld),

You can communicate effectively while demonstrating basic levels of intelligence, or you can be an ignorant hate filled bigot, but you can’t do both. People like you prove this every day. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia.

Cheers,

Blake A. Page
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Special Assistant to the President
Director of West Point Affairs


Dear (name withheld),

My name is Rick Baker. I’m a former Air Force Officer and rescue pilot having served two combat tours in Vietnam. I am an MRFF Volunteer

I have been surrounded by enemy troops with guns leveled at my head, bound and beaten by North Vietnamese regulars. I have been very scared at times but never quite as scared as when I read your letter to MRFF.

It is time to seek help. You have deteriorated into a psychotic bigot allowing your prejudices to control you. Your hatred of Jews is almost palpable and your personal hatred of Mr. Weinstein demonstrates that whatever humanity you had, if any, has left you long ago.

Do you know that every time you call Mr. Weinstein insulting names such as Kike, moneylover nosey Jew, hebe, etc., you are, at the same time calling God the Father and Jesus the same names?

Jehovah (God) and Jesus were and still are Jews. Jesus never renounced his Judaism. It is the Christians who made Christ over into a Christian.

Try to save yourself before it is too late.

Rick Baker
Capt. USAF (Ret)
MRFF Volunteer

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I’m in http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/im-in/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/im-in/#comments Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:34:55 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20031 I wanted to thank you for taking the time to visit UNG and speak with students. I wanted to thank you in person last night but I had to get to class.
I’m an Episcopalian and even though I’m a Christian, I am often times offended by the prayers offered before events. They are ostracizing to those who don’t prescribed to that specific brand of Christianity. I also work with an interfaith program that works with Christian, Jewish and Muslim kids from the United Staes, Israel and Palestine and have gained an understanding and open minded ness when it comes to prayer for mixed groups.
I personally like the idea of starting an event with prayer but I am one person and I think it is more important to create a strong, accepting community and that can’t be done by offending people and forcing them to pray to something they don’t believe in.
Thank you for your hard work and for coming to UNG.
I’m in,

(name withheld)

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Navy http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/navy/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/navy/#comments Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:43:07 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20026 Your stand against Bibles in the Navy shows that u have never come close to death & experience GOD. Try a pitching aircraft carrier night landing & you’ll be praying that you’ll get aboard. Or see your best friend killed then you’ll be praying. Never met a dying sailor who wasn’t praying.

(name withheld)
Captain US Navy Retired – Naval Aviator


Hi (name withheld),

First, let me thank you, sir, for your service to America.

My name is Rick Baker. I’m a former Air Force Officer and rescue pilot, having served two combat tours in Vietnam. I am also an MRFF Volunteer.

I saw your note to MRFF and I would like to take a minute and discuss it with you.

I have experienced many incidents in which I and my crew rescued or transported severely wounded personnel to forward Aid Stations, MASH’s or installation hospitals. We did not prohibit prayer or the Bible. Although I must say that most of what I heard from the wounded was an intense desire to get the enemy back for what they did

MRFF is not against the Bible. We are against coercive use of it in the military however. Many a staunch Christian military officer, using their rank and position, has attempted to make the Bible and other religious articles proselytizing devices in the military.

The Bible belongs in the Chapel, the home and personal effects of individuals and not required reading in the armed forces. By placing the Bible in the drawers of dressers at Naval residential areas, the Navy has shown an unconstitutional favoritism to Christianity.

In Lemon Vs. Kurzman, 1971, the US Supreme Court held that members of government, including the armed forces and public education, may not publicly favor one religion over another or religion over non-religion.

The Constitution is specific on this matter.

Rick Baker
Capt. USAF (Ret)
MRFF Volunteer.


Captain (name withheld),
>
> Mikey is extremely busy defending the Constitutional rights of service members so he asked me to respond to you. First, I would like to thank you for your service. I also want to thank you for using your real name. This indicates to me that you are not a troll and do indeed care about the content of your message. You would not believe the number of messages we receive that contain death threats, vitriolic language, and racial/ethnic slurs towards our founder, his family, and other volunteers.
>
> Now, to properly respond to your message. I will state ahead of time that I will most certainly use a level of snark in my response to you because quite frankly what you have written is deserving of such. I am a combat veteran of both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with 4 combat tours. Front lines, ground combat, snacking on MRE’s, foot patrols, mounted patrols, IED’s, mortars, snipers, local militants, and more…
>
> In all my time overseas I never once encountered someone who would stop putting bullets downrange in order to pray to their god. I never once met a Marine who’s last wish was to be prayed over. He was always parting with some message to send to his family back here. And I would think if god were real, at that point, would it even matter?
>
> Maybe sailors are a different breed, then. However, I know when my father was in the navy onboard the Kennedy in ’75 he had a harrowing experience. The Kennedy got rammed by the Belknap and went up in flames. My father spent most of the night without protective gear fighting the fire to ensure the ship didn’t sink. He had friends to his left and right dying and prayer was the last thing on their mind – at least that’s how he tells it. And I tend to believe that, considering my own harrowing experiences nearly ended my life a time or two and it didn’t bring me cowering to some benevolent deity.
>
> I would say I’m quite offended by your ignorance over the statements you’ve made but I’m used to it by the general population of intelligent yet severely uninformed miscreants that pervade our service branches these days.
>
> Another point: you have equated one belief system (Christianity) with a stance on Constitutionality being one and the same. That is a false equivalency and you should be ashamed of having stooped to such a level. I have met many an officer in my time in the military and I know what it takes to attain the rank of Captain in the U.S. Navy. You are certainly no intellectual slouch but you fail to put on the skeptical and inquiring lenses required of a man and commander of your rank and stature. For shame!
>
> The issue with the Bibles boils down to Constitutionality – NOT anti-Christian bigotry! That is all. It is a quite simple concept and one that everyone, when having it broken down “Barney-style” as we say in the Corps, will more than likely agree with. After all that hallowed piece of paper is what we have all sworn an oath to. It supercedes any and all personal beliefs. It guides the government, the military, the agencies therein and is not favorable towards any one religion. If ever an entity within that government does favor one it is our job as citizens to hold the government accountable. That is what we do.
>
> We at MRFF are not in any form sheep merely following the leadership of Mikey Weinstein. We aren’t parrots regurgitating tired old lines keeping with his status quo. We are Constitutionalists who are holding the military and its members accountable to ensure that the line of church and state becomes less blurry. We come in every shape and form – we have Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, Active Duty, Reserve, Veteran, Pastors, Bishops, Actors, Politicians, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Rastafarians, Roman Catholics, Atheists, Agnostics; the list is too numerous to place in a single email. We all have different beliefs, values, and worldviews but we come together in the belief that no one – NO ONE – should be forced to adhere to any specific belief system in the military. That is anathema to the very values we swore to defend.
>
> Making the Navy Lodge get rid of the Gideon Bibles had nothing to do with being anti-Christian and still does not. Unless the Navy is willing and able – key phrase “able” – to supply religious texts from every religion that is currently in service in the military then they are quite literally in violation of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. We don’t care about civilian lodges or private businesses putting Gideons in the hotel – but when it comes from our US taxpayer dollars and is placed there by government workers or contractors it is a blatant violation of the US Constitution. I hear the same tired line about “free expression” as a rebuttal so let me cut you off there – the US Government does not have the right to freely exercise religion. The Government isn’t a citizen. And even the citizens who are in service of the government cannot freely express their religion in a manner that is reflective upon the government because that would create a perception about government endorsement of a specific religious preference. And as I’m sure you have given hundreds of liberty briefs over the years – perception is reality. If one of your sailors got a DUI and killed someone on liberty it still reflected on you, the unit, etc.
>
> Imagine that type of perception on a global worldwide scale in a time and age where the main antagonist of the US Military are extremist religious idealogues. Would it be fair to say it is unsafe on any level to create a perception where Christianity is favored and other religions are merely tolerated or worse denigrated?
>
> You may think it’s nuanced. A bible in the Navy Lodge “isn’t hurting anybody” so just let it be. Well, I’m sorry but the world doesn’t work that way. We live in a country based on the rule of law. And that rule of law says that we cannot establish a religion nor even have any entity of government appear to do so. And as defenders of the Constitution we will continue to hold the military and the Department of Defense accountable to that sacred document.
>
> Semper Fidelis
>
> Very Respectfully,
>
> Paul Loebe
> Special Projects Manager
> Military Religious Freedom Foundation
> Chicago, IL
>
> *Disclaimer: Although I am a Marine Staff Sergeant my views do not reflect the Department of Defense, US Marine Corps, or any affiliated branches.*


> Hello Paul and (name withheld),
>
> Paul — just a quick “amen” to your excellent summary of the situation.
>
> I also wanted to say “thanks for your service” to both you and the good CPT, but wanted to tell CPT Bell that as a Marine ground-pounder with close personal ground combat at Khe Sanh and elsewhere in Vietnam in 1967-8, I have come very close to death personally on more than one occasion, and had a number of men die very near me — and yet I was not once impelled to pray to anything. For one thing, like Paul, I was too busy, and for another, as an atheist, I thought (and still think) it is hypocritical to pray in times of need, but not in good times.
>
> However, my lack of belief in an invisible, mysterious, supernatural BFF in some nebulous place of residence never affected my combat readiness or effectiveness one iota (and you can ask any of the men I served with as to the accuracy of that statement).
>
> The men I saw die up-close and personal didn’t pray either, at least not that I heard. Some didn’t have time or opportunity, even if they wanted to. One had his head blown off by friendly rocket fire from a supporting Navy Phantom. For some, the pain was intense — one man’s last words to the skipper were; “It hurts real bad, sir.” Our Corpsman says most died crying or calling for their mom. (That matches up with some studies I have seen on the subject, as well as my own experience.) Our chaplain at Khe Sanh even wrote an article about atheists in combat. (See attached PDF.)
>
> Now I have no doubt some men find solace and hope in religion — at its best, that is what religion is there for. I know some men who have come back believers, even becoming ministers — and others who came back atheists. (I went over as one, so no change.)
>
> But as you say, the issue is now what some people find comforting in battle — or even in Navy Lodges — but what is right under the Constitution which clearly states that there shall be NO establishment of ANY religion — whether Pagan or Christian or Jewish, Muslim or whatever.
>
> If a religious belief of some sort makes CPT Bell or anyone else feel better, and they are not trying to force it on anyone else, fine. But it isn’t the government’s place to provide religious texts, other than in chapels and other appropriate designated areas. If he wants a Bible in his room in a Navy Lodge or anywhere else — fine — either bring his own copy, or get one from the chaplain or base library — and frankly, like Jefferson and Madison, I feel that even paid chaplains, base chapels, and providing religious materials (of any sort) are unconstitutional and a waste of my tax dollar. Let the faithful pay to pray! And while we’re at it, let’s tax religious organizations! What a racket they are!
>
> Semper Fidelis,
>
> F. J. Taylor
> USMC (Ret.)
>
> PS: I also attach for CPT Bell’s interest and information some material I found while researching the “No atheists in foxholes” lie in the cases of Chaplain Reyes and the Marine Corps Museum chaplain’s exhibit at San Diego.
>
> No Atheists in Foxholes? BS!
>
> Any government entity or personage (such as a chaplain) wrongly inferring that there are “no atheists in foxholes” is a clear violation of the First Amendment, in that it implies government or military sponsorship of religion. US law and judicial decisions have expressly forbade any such show of “favoritism, preference, or elevation of any religion.”
>
> This is not something new. Both Thomas Jefferson, patriot, author of the Declaration, statesman, philosopher, scholar, and our 3rd and arguably one of our finest Presidents, and James Madison, our 4th President, principal author, and considered “the Father” of the Constitution. opposed public or state-sponsored prayer, and a state-funded chaplaincy during their Presidencies. Madison said such proclamations were not appropriate because;
>
>> “They seem to imply and certainly nourish the erroneous idea of a national religion.”
>
>
> Speaking for myself, and other free-thinking active, retired and former service personnel, I am sick to death of the egregious canard that there are “no atheists in foxholes.”
>
> While researching this matter, I spoke with a long-time friend who is rather an expert on the issue, LCDR Rev. Ray Stubbe, USN (Ret.), who was chaplain of the 26th Marines at Khe Sanh, and noted co-author of the most authoritative history of the battles for Khe Sanh “Valley of Decision.”
>
> Ray was (and is) the “real deal.” He ministered to those of all religions, not just his own Lutheran faith, or even just to Christians. We did not have a Jewish chaplain, so when a Jewish Marine asked Ray if he could help get him a mezuzah (a small case with a parchment inscribed with a Jewish religious text, attached to the doorpost of observant Jews’ homes) for his bunker, Ray contacted his Jewish counterpart in Da Nang when he was down there and returned with the requested mezuzah.
>
> Ray was also the only chaplain to go to outlying posts, and would even go on patrols with us. Here is a picture of him with one of my comrades, prior to a patrol. Ray is on the right with the big grin and the M-60 bandolier. (He didn’t carry weapons (except a Kabar) as chaplains are forbidden to carry arms, but he did carry ammo, as the CO didn’t want him to stand out from the others. He didn’t want a chaplain killed on his watch!)
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> Ray also conducted service during the Siege, as in this famous picture of him at Khe Sanh. They were just concluding when they heard the “pop” of the tubes in Laos. Ray concluded in a hurry, and said “AMEN! HIT THE DECK!!” They all dove into the trech just as the rounds came in.
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> Ray informed me that not only was the statement about atheists untrue in his personal experience, but that he had made a statement to the news to that effect at the time of the Siege. He sent me a copy of the newspaper clippings of the statement. He reiterated that he stands by his statement, based on his extensive personal combat experience with wounded and dying Marines and other service personnel. I quote from the relevant parts of his letter dated 21 Nov. 2010;
>
>> “Your mention of “atheists in foxholes” evoked some memories, as I mentioned to you, and I’m attaching the documentation I mentioned along with a letter received in regard to the news item. I think you’ll find this to be interesting. I’ve always tried to be completely honest about things, as you know. We have to be focused on telling the truth!”
>
> A retired USMC captain I know was and remains a devout Christian evangelical, and a deacon in his church. In 1967 and 1968, he was an enlisted Navy Hospital Corpsman, assigned to our unit at Khe Sanh, where he endured the initial assaults on Khe Sanh ville during the onset of the Tet Offensive of 1968, and later was with us on the lines of FOB 3 outside KSCB when our company was removed there following the assaults. As a combat Corpsman, he was personally exposed on numerous occasions to enemy fire, and cared for casualties. In an E-mail dated Nov. 21 2010, he wrote:
>
>> “The old saying that there are no “atheist in foxholes” is certainly not a true statement. Some of the Marines I could not save from their injuries did not want me to pray with them. Some died quietly and others went out fighting for every breath and cursing. Most resigned themselves to their fate. Most of the time, when I asked if I could pray for them, they said “Please.”
>
> I personally know several other men who were atheists who were awarded high personal combat awards. In fact, some became atheists as a result of their combat experience. My dad was one. Raised a fundamentalist evangelical Protestant, he became a life-long atheist.
>
> One well-known soldier who lived and died an atheist was the late CPL Pat Tillman. Though not a Marine, and not killed by enemy action, I think his actions in leaving a high-paid career in professional football and enlisting to serve his nation in combat were the mark of a highly principled individual (unlike certain draft and combat evading politicians in recent years).
>
> Of course, I am aware that others get religion in combat. One of our men was converted shortly before his death in an ambush on Hill 689 (I hope it gave him some comfort in his last minutes), several other men later became ministers, and of course, there were and are brave chaplains (the Four Chaplains of WWII, and my friend Ray Stubbe, among others), but that is not the point under discussion. It has never been said or implied that there were “no theists in foxholes” or “no Christians in foxholes” – a statement which would be as untrue as the one I am disputing.
>
> Those who are usually credited with the creation of this annoying and egregious phrase did not in fact claim or acknowledge it.
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> The three candidates from WW II were: Fr. William Cummings, a Catholic priest who served as a Transport chaplain (cited by LCOL Reyes), Lt. Col. Warren Clear, and an unnamed Army sergeant, all of whom were in Bataan in April of 1942. However, Fr. Cummings nor LCOL Clear both denied it. (The sergeant’s claim is as unknown as he is.)
>
> Some newspapers published at the end of WW I stated that an “unnamed clergyman” had (supposedly) remarked that “during the Great War one could find no atheists in the trenches.”
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> As a young man, I personally knew men who were in the trenches during that particularly ghastly war on both sides (one was a German soldier), and several were atheists. Some had gone into the war as true believers – both in god and the righteousness of the cause. They emerged from the other end of the meat-grinder with quite a different set of beliefs.
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> Possibly someone at Bataan or elsewhere was influenced by these earlier remarks. If anyone said that, they either weren’t in the trenches (where there most certainly were some atheists, as is plain from their writing both during and after their time in combat) – or they were just lying – a trait not unknown among some people who loudly profess faith, even members of the clergy.
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> Nobody can identify the speaker or speakers in either WW I or WW II with any degree of certainty or accuracy, or their rank, clerical status, or military affiliation (if any), let alone their combat experience (if any).
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> The most anybody can say about this remark with any degree of accuracy is that someone, who may or may not have even been in the military, or had combat experience, may have made this or a similar statement in WW I and / or WW II. In any case, whoever said it (if anyone), they were either liars or fools.
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> In addition to LCDR Stubbe’s and our Corpsman’s remarks, at least one WW II chaplain stated clearly that there WERE atheists in foxholes, and indeed, they were rampant. Here is a reprint from Time Magazine, dated July 18, 1945, available in the Time archives online:
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>> Religion: Atheists & Foxholes
>> Monday, Jun. 18, 1945
>> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,775935,00.html
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>> Despite pious rumor, there are atheists in foxholes. So writes Transport Chaplain Lewis A. Myers in the current Arkansas Baptist: “Foxholes are not valid agents for making Christians, for destroying atheists or for driving men to God. … If you desire a man to come out of a foxhole with something, you had better send him in with something.
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>> “In load after load of returning soldiers … we find 80% of them listen to the gospel with more skepticism than . . . ever … stay away from religious services . . . with less scruples . . . curse more and with a finesse unbelievable . . . gamble with more avidity and defend it with more vigor . . and find it difficult to hold an extended conversation without defaming womankind, even though unintentionally.”
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>> Chaplain Myers believes that his plain speaking should act as a challenge to churchmen: “There is no need for our churches to fear the truth. Frankness in this matter is not against the war effort, and it isn’t expected of churches that they should surrender their idealism. We should understand now, before the great discharge of soldiers begins, that foxholes are not now and never will do the work of our Christian institutions.”
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> So yes, there are atheists (and agnostics) in foxholes — I was one of them, as was my father before me.
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> I know that some people feel the need to pray when they are in danger. Perhaps it gives them some relief from the stresses of combat. If so, they are welcome to it. However, there are those of us who do not feel the need for some mysterious, miraculous BFF in the sky, whether it be Christian or other Abrahamic traditions, or Thor, Zeus, the Cosmic Muffin or the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the Pastafarians.
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> I don’t know how much close personal ground combat (if any) the people who evoked and perpetuated this bone-headed lie have had. I am not bragging or complaining here, but I had some pretty intense episodes. None of them ever made me even the least bit inclined to jump on the religious bandwagon.
>
> If anyone chooses to believe in order to calm their own fears of death or whatever motivates, fair enough. They have that right. But they do NOT have the right to repeat egregious lies about “no atheists in foxholes.” We are there — and if believers end up in one, chances are one of us will be there as well, covering them.
>
> Some people may believe that some “god is your co-pilot” but I have never seen any supposed deity in the trenches or fighting holes of Khe Sanh or any other battlefield I have been on — just dirty, sweating, smelly swearing grunts, mangled, bloody men, and rotting corpses. (You want to know what Hell is really like? Ask me or any other grunt who has crossed the line.)
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> Whatever the case, the statement about atheists is and always has been a lie, and debases the beliefs and efforts of some very brave men, some of whom were wounded or died, having chosen to face death without the (doubtless useful) crutch provided by religion.
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> Let’s look at it another way; If someone had said there were “no Muslims (or Jews, or Pagans or African-Americans or Hispanics, or Asians or whatever) in foxholes” would that also be excusable? What if someone said there were “no Christians in foxholes.”? Would that be OK? Hell no! The religions concerned would be up in arms!
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> Fortunately for those of us who believe in the rule of law, the laws of this land are not dictated by the deities or scriptures of any faith, but by the secular Constitution and laws written in accordance with it. As Jefferson wrote;
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>> “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” – letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
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> Some folks may not like it but that is the fact of the matter.
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> As to GEN Eisenhower, (who is often quoted as stating something along these lines), he never served in combat in any war. In WW I, he was assigned stateside to organize and train the new tank corps. In WW II, his job was first in Washington, and later he was elevated to the supreme command because of his organizational skills and because Roosevelt and Churchill realized he was the only one who could induce the others to cooperate. Patton, Montgomery and the rest, though splendid tactical leaders, were simply too egotistical to submit to one another. Eisenhower, despite his non-combat status being scoffed at by Patton and Montgomery, was an able manager of men and organizations, and a smooth politician who was able to soothe the ruffled feathers of prima donna generals.
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> So GEN Eisenhower, who never personally saw combat, was no more qualified to speak about atheists in battle than any other man who has never seen combat, thus making any reference to him as some sort of authority null and void. Q.E.D.
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>


It has been well said that “the man who says there is no God is a fool.”

(name withheld)


Dear (name withheld),

I was hoping to have a real conversation with you (name withheld). Instead you turned around and showed your ass.

You couldn’t win the battle of who’s the biggest badass since you were a POG and I called you on it, respectfully. Then you couldn’t believe that you were trounced by an atheist – note you never responded to me, only my fellow compadres.

Then you went into a one-line diatribe degrading atheists as fools. Well, prior to my deconversion I was studying to be a pastor and I do recall this one excellent passage that I think fits YOU quite well.

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You are angry at us without cause and I TRIED – TRIED – to reason with you and explain why we are on the same side. And you still ignored my pleading. Then out of your arrogant pride you called us fools – or specifically myself and FJ Taylor, since Mikey is Jewish and the vast majority of MRFF is comprised of Christians – which by your very own measure of good and evil means you face an eternity in hell….

Enjoy your eternity of ignorance

Very Respectfully,
Paul Loebe
Special Projects Manager
Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Chicago, IL

*Disclaimer: Although I am a Marine Staff Sergeant I do not speak on behalf of the Department of Defense, United States Marine Corps, or any affiliated branches.*

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FEATURED LETTER FROM A MRFF CLIENT – “There are still heroes” http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/there-are-still-heroes/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/08/there-are-still-heroes/#comments Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:34:48 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=20019 Mr. Weinstein sir I wanted to write to thank you and all of the good people at the MRFF who fight for us soldiers, and our rights not be proselytized to accept the type of Christianity of our commanders and supervisors. I am an active duty combat solider in the U.S. Army. Sir I hate to ask this but please do not use my name rank or other specific identity when you use this email. Which I sure hope you will use. Except not my name and stuff. I drove quite a ways yesterday with some friends to see you speak in Denver at that convention. All the speakers were interesting and good. But Mr. Weinstein sir you stole the show and left us all so happy that the MRFF is here to protect and fight for us. I brought my own copy which my wife (name withheld) bought of your book No Snowflake in an Avalanche. Thank you for autographing my book to her name at the book signing you did after the speech. I was the (height descriptor withheld) guy with the (color withheld) shirt the (color withheld) hair and the (style withheld) haircut. The line was real long and you probably don’t remember me.

My story. I deployed many times to both Iraq and Afghanistan before I was even (number of years withheld) years old. I have killed many of the enemy. I have held my battle buddies and said goodby to them as they died in my lap. They bled out with their eyes open and I cried for them. I have the nightmares and my wife holds me when I scream in dreams at night. I have seen all that you talked about and it is totally true. And even worse. There are a ton of examples but the worst sticks in my mind. Its what my Company Comm. told us after a long engagement with the enemy in (name of Province withheld) province in Afghanistan. We had many injured and dead among us and our ISAF troops. He looked at our dead and told us that we needed to get right with Jesus before this might happen to us. No one said anything for a bit. Our (Army combat enlisted job description withheld) asked him what he meant and our Company Comm. said that our own dead guys who had not been born again and accepted Jesus as their personal savior were now in hell. Hell? I was shocked. Messed up. And there were others who also were. Our (Army combat enlisted job description withheld) had no expression on his face. But we know he was also shocked. But the Comm. is a Captain and we’re enlisted. Plus he’s our CO. And he said this in front of other countrys troops too. Especially the (Country’s name withheld) troops and even the (unit designation withheld) Afghan National Army ANA combat soldiers were there to hear this. You know how that shit from our Capt. went down with them right sir?

Anyways sir there are many more things I can say but the biggest is thank you to you Mr. Weinstein and everyone at the MRFF who won’t give up on us. We all know it must be hard to keep it all going especially with all the threats. Sir couldn’t help but notice the cops who stayed all over you like glue where ever you went yesterday at the speech. Everyone talked about that.

My wife and I have your first book too With God on our Side. We’re excited to hear of the new book coming out by your wife showing all the hate mail. Eyes will open! Oh by the way I went down range at first as a atheist but came back as a bit of a Chrsitian. Just makes me and my wife feel good together at times. Like you said sir in your talk about you being Jewish but not too much. But I’m not the right kind of Christian for my chain of command. As you too said many times in your speech. People say we don’t have heroes anymore. Their wrong because we have you and the MRFF. You all are our battle buddies now. And there is nothing I can say that is any better than that about anyone. Thank you all for taking the heat for us. Thank you all for being our heroes.

V/R

(U.S. Army soldier’s name, rank, MOS, combat unit and military installation all withheld by request)

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