Military Religious Freedom Foundation http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org Protecting the Constitutional Guarantee of Separation of Church and State in the United States Military Thu, 17 Apr 2014 23:59:54 +0000 en-US hourly 1 4/17/14 BREAKING: MRFF protests Pentagon participation in fundamentalist Christian-hosted “National Day of Prayer” http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41714-breaking-mrff-protests-pentagon-participation-in-fundamentalist-christian-hosted-national-day-of-prayer/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41714-breaking-mrff-protests-pentagon-participation-in-fundamentalist-christian-hosted-national-day-of-prayer/#comments Thu, 17 Apr 2014 23:59:54 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19225 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41714-breaking-mrff-protests-pentagon-participation-in-fundamentalist-christian-hosted-national-day-of-prayer/feed/ 0 4/16/14 VIDEO: MRFF Hate Mail Readings Chapter 10 – They’re at it Again! http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41614-video-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-10-theyre-at-it-again/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41614-video-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-10-theyre-at-it-again/#comments Wed, 16 Apr 2014 23:40:24 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19219 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/41614-video-mrff-hate-mail-readings-chapter-10-theyre-at-it-again/feed/ 0 4/16/14 VIDEO – KKTV 11 NEWS COLORADO SPRINGS – Debate Over Religious Freedom http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/video-kktv-11-news-colorado-springs-debate-over-religious-freedom/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/video-kktv-11-news-colorado-springs-debate-over-religious-freedom/#comments Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:49:41 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19210

Click above to view this 1 minute, 11 second video

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COLORADO SPRINGS GAZETTE – Lamborn makes push to allow religious expression at academy http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/colorado-springs-gazette-lamborn-makes-push-to-allow-religious-expression-at-academy/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/colorado-springs-gazette-lamborn-makes-push-to-allow-religious-expression-at-academy/#comments Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:52:39 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19207 Selected Article Excerpts:

  • U.S. Rep Doug Lamborn penned a letter signed by 21 of his colleagues demanding that the Air Force relax its rules on religious expression.

    It’s the latest fallout of March’s “whiteboard gate,” an incident in which a cadet penned a Bible passage on a message board outside a dorm room and voluntarily erased it in the face of complaints of religious intolerance.

    In the Tuesday letter to Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James, Lamborn said the military needs to protect religious speech on base.

    The Republican wants the Air Force to revise its policies and “provide clear guidance on implementation to ensure the Air Force adequately protects the religious freedom of all airmen.”

     

  • The Military Religious Freedom Foundation contends that the verses outside a dorm room at the academy is part of a wider pattern of proselytizing at the school and creates a hostile environment for non-Christians.

    The Family Research Council and other faith-based groups contend that the government is making the academy an uncomfortable place for believers by stopping religious expression.

    The academy’s superintendent, Lt. Gen. Michelle Johnson has said a gray area in regulations has left the school caught amid a national debate: Proselytizing in the workplace is regulated but airmen have a right to practice their faith freely.

    Johnson said last month the academy is working to balance those opposing forces in the dormitories where cadets live and work during their four years at the school.

    “Clearly, there are larger national issues at play,” the academy said Tuesday.

Click to read more

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CNN – U.S. right wing extremists more deadly than jihadists http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/cnn-u-s-right-wing-extremists-more-deadly-than-jihadists/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/cnn-u-s-right-wing-extremists-more-deadly-than-jihadists/#comments Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:52:58 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19195 Selected Article Excerpts:

  • On Sunday, a man shot and killed a 14-year-old boy and his grandfather at the Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City and then drove to a nearby Jewish retirement community where he shot and killed a third person. Police arrested a suspect, Frazier Glenn Cross, who shouted “Heil Hitler” after he was taken into custody.
  • Now let’s do the thought experiment in which instead of shouting “Heil Hitler” after he was arrested, the suspect had shouted “Allahu Akbar.” Only two days before the first anniversary of the Boston Marathon bombings, this simple switch of words would surely have greatly increased the extent and type of coverage the incident received.
  • Yet the death toll in the shootings in Kansas is similar to that of last year’s Boston Marathon bombings, where three people were killed and the suspects later killed a police officer as they tried to evade capture. (Many more, of course, were also wounded in the Boston attacks; 16 men, women and children lost limbs.)In fact, since 9/11 extremists affiliated with a variety of far-right wing ideologies, including white supremacists, anti-abortion extremists and anti-government militants, have killed more people in the United States than have extremists motivated by al Qaeda’s ideology. According to a count by the New America Foundation, right wing extremists have killed 34 people in the United States for political reasons since 9/11. (The total includes the latest shootings in Kansas, which are being classified as a hate crime).

Click to read article

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Vile anti-Semitic e-mail to Mikey Weinstein (with MRFF responses) http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/vile-anti-semitic-e-mail-to-mikey-weinstein/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/vile-anti-semitic-e-mail-to-mikey-weinstein/#comments Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:19:55 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19192 Subject: Mikey Why Do You Pursecute My White People and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
From: jujuflayme@dahcow.com
To: Mikey Weinstein


Adolf-Hitler


Juju…..

You seem much younger in this photograph. Was it at a celebration of Jewish extermination?  And what a marvelous job you and the other thousands of misguided Christians did to rid the world of these vermin.

I guess you’re glad Jesus didn’t raise a finger to stop this slaughter of millions of  Semitic, African, Russian, Polish, Scandinavian, French, Gypsy and English peoples.

Yup, I guess when you add up the casualties of the Christian Crusades, Inquisitions, Holocaust and Genocides it sorta makes you wonder how  there are any non-Christians left.

Of course there are plenty of good, law abiding and tolerant Christians around the world. I just wish they had gotten on the bad Christians for  the awful things they did.

In an effort to try and bring religious freedom to every member of the armed forces, MRFF has occasionally had to correct some command centered and coercive Christian based proselytizing. We are currently addressing over 36,000 complaints from our young men and women in the military as having been victims of such illegal and unconstitutional activity. The majority of the complainants are themselves Christians.

I can assure you there is no effort on our part to interfere with Law abiding and moderate Christians in the armed forces but we will take steps to intercede those who use their rank and position to bully subordinates with their religion.

Rick Baker

Capt. USAF, (Ret)

MRFF Volunteer


Hello Sender. My name is Greg and I’m a proud member of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, dedicated to preserving the Constitution of the United States, the wall of Separation of Church and State, and the religious freedom of our military men and women. I was curious to what that point of your e-mail was? From the subject line, I can only surmise that you are a bigot but without more information, it is hard to tell and I don’t want to make any unjust assumptions. I would like to give you the opportunity to provide a coherent argument for your statement. Also, why the picture of Adolf Hitler? Can you explain why you have attached it? Again, I can only assume you are propagating a widely held ignorance of history, but I never assume anything. Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing your response. Greg

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COLORADO SPRINGS INDEPENDENT – New review ordered for AF instruction on religion http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/colorado-springs-independent-new-review-ordered-for-af-instruction-on-religion/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/colorado-springs-independent-new-review-ordered-for-af-instruction-on-religion/#comments Mon, 14 Apr 2014 22:02:01 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19182 Selected Article Excerpts:

  • Such a brouhaha erupted over a cadet writing a Bible verse on his dorm whiteboard that Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh has asked Air Force chaplains and lawyers to conduct a special review of the relevant Air Force Instruction.

    After an Air Force Academy cadet removed a Bible verse from his dorm whiteboard in mid-March out of religious sensitivity for others, a group of organizations accused the academy of actions that “chill speech at the Academy, harm morale, and create unnecessary confusion for cadets.”

    Academy officials say the cadet chose to remove the message, but the fundamentalist Christian American Family Association and 20 other organizations sent the academy a letter on March 31, saying the cadet was inappropriately pressured.

  • The whiteboard issue went viral after someone reported it to Mikey Weinstein with the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Weinstein called the March 31 letter “utter idiocy.”

Click to read article

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AUDIO – MIKEY WEINSTEIN IN DAYTON, OHIO – As Dangerous As It Gets http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/mikey-weinstein-dayton-ohio-as-dangerous-as-it-gets/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/mikey-weinstein-dayton-ohio-as-dangerous-as-it-gets/#comments Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:33:38 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19167

Click the Play button above to listen to this 1 hour 49 minute, 47 second presentation.

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Hey MF http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/hey-mf-2/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/hey-mf-2/#comments Sun, 13 Apr 2014 14:25:21 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19163 I don’t know if you’ve noticed the recent dust-up at the Air Force Academy, but you might want to check it out. The leadership called for an ‘Ask and Atheist Day,’ and the MRFF roundly condemned it.

Gives you something to wrap your little head around, doesn’t it?

Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)


Dear MF, Actually this “little head” you refer to has earned three university degrees including one in International Economics from Rollins, an MA in History and another in Government Contract Law. “Little head” also, although semi-retired and enjoying his well earned beach home in Florida and thus having extra time to engage in bardonage with you, has also lived worked or traveled in over fifty countries and in the course of his career has also worked with, interfaced with or socilaized other “little heads” of state and senior civil and military officials (smaller heads), both US and foreign, and the “little head” has amongst other things also established and owned four corporations in other countries which have held contracts with foreign governments. “Little head”, although a ninth generation US Citizen descended from soldiers of the American Revolution and generally conservative or libertarian in most views, is engaged to a citizen of Portugal (little brown skinned tiny headed woman) and “Little Head” was also raised in Switzerland and has spent half his life living, working studying or traveling outside of the US and is thus also fluent in French and Spanish…Anyway, forgive me but there may not be much empty space left in my “little head” to absorb what you are relating but I will attempt to formulate a sensible response to it anyway:

Regarding atheists as US citizens and their rights of free speech and association: You don’t have to like them or agree with them but you do need to leave them alone too and YES, if they want, they should have their own little niche or day to do what they want to do and you and your self-appointed organization need to also afford them respect and to bow out and leave them and all the rest alone too. Any individual or organized, chartered group should be allowed to believe in what they want to so long as they do so peacefully while also respecting the rights of others to do the same. Also, while you are leaving the atheists alone you should also keep your threats off the Christmas tree and the menorah and anything anyone else anyone wants to put up inside designated personal or public free speech areas on bases. That would represent both a good lesson on constitutional rights and liberties while also leading to greater concrete understanding and appreciation amongst military as to what ideals of freedom speech and tolerance they are fighting to protect really represent.

Meanwhile, the attempts by your organization to get cadets expelled for expressing their rights of freedom of speech and religion, in this instance by simply showing their personal preferences or respect to certain ideas by posting historical verses upon their own designated spaces outside their own doors and all done in accordance to rules handed to them years ago by the academy, smacks on your part of being religion haters and of commissars at work in darkest Russia!!

Moreover, while I am not a Muslim or a Jew, I have studied their holy books too and even within those philosophies of life and religion I have found texts and verses which are truly universal and sensible and which are morally just truisms which have stood upon their own merits through the test of time and which have positively served mankind and inspired good behavior in people for thousands of years. In fact, I do not mind quoting or even applying some of those moral precepts from other faiths within my own personal code of ethics regardless of the source.

Moreover, either subconsciously or consciously, you yourself either live by or agree with thousands of civil laws and codes of behavior which all have their original basis in religious teaching and you do so every day whether you realize it or not. Thus, attempting to root out and strip that away, if successful, would return the world to a night of anarchy and barbarism! Moreover, there are far worse things which cadets could be doing besides showing their personal appreciation for some of the philosophical thoughts upon which our civilization is based. What if I wrote a quotation from Socrates, Gandhi or the Buddha on my little assigned chalk board? Would you demand my expulsion from the academy, too?? What is it exactly that you believe in again?

The fact is that in the free market place of ideas ….ideas are like products for consumers to consider and in the end it is free individuals who also should choose what they want to accept and believe in or reject. Thus invariably, and in the course of freedom of thought and decision making, what is most useful and helpful to most reasonable people survives the test of time and propagates. Conversely, what does not serve the majority of human souls and consciences gets left behind and is rejected. That being said and what you need to understand, is that ideas of any philosophical persuasion when released inside a free society will either rise and fall upon their own merits and will do so all without people like you attempting to either suppress or regulate those ideas. This also known as being an integral part of Democracy and of freedom of thought and expression and if you are afraid of that sort of freedom then you have some other serious issues and malevolent agendas. Could it be that your ideas simply will not stand up to the scrutiny of logic in day light and so you must attempt to quash all others in order to make you own opinions prevail?? That is called dogmatism and tyranny and many people have died so the rest of us would not have to live under such regimes.

Your further contention that some how your organization is not all that bad because you are also attempting to suppress a group of atheists gives me goose bumps! So what are you saying then……that you are equal opportunity persecutors? The fact is that if anyone does not want to attend a Christmas party or conclave of atheists they merely have the right to stay away without consequences. Don’t listen and don’t attend and if enough people eventually reach the same conclusions about such events and holidays then those organizations and groups will whither away and become extinct the same as other bad products…but people do not need your help in deciding what is best for themselves.

There is also an organization called DEOMI with offices every American military base to which any service person may address complaints of any form of discrimination and abuse they suffer either by peers or superiors. Thus, in that regard, the military is already doing what needs to done anyway to establish a non hostile work place and to that end provides excellent ombudsmen and mechanisms for re dressing serious grievances. In fact the US military is already one of the fairest and least hostile work places in the world to be in and does not need your help to improve itself.

Moreover, only when people or groups such as yours, attempt to suppress or impose their own unique world view over all others and also do so while acting under the delusion or dangerous pre-supposition that their own philosophy is correct and superior above all others, does an organization become peril to the individual liberties endowed upon us by our Constitution. By the way, that document actually states that those rights “are endowed by God” and not by the government, or courts and it certainly does not say that they should further be decided upon or regulated by the Mr. Weinstein’s of the world, either. Anyway, put that in your pipe and smoke it and let that roll around inside your own head.

In that regard people like you are in fact the greatest danger to freedom both inside this country and to the rest of the world at large and are NOT the defenders of freedom as you represent yourselves to be. I am certain that you would also try to have the US Constitution repealed or revoked, or parts redacted,…especially the word “God” part if your group could figure out how build a case to do it. Bit of advice though: Ever try to tamper with the US Constitution and you might find a surprising alliance of atheists, Satanists, Christians,Muslims and Jews all standing shoulder to shoulder to oppose you..if in fact that alliance does not already exist.

Meanwhile, I don’t think that you even have a clue about what a “hostile work environment” is really like and I also hazard that if you had ever spent any time in some of the places abroad where I have lived you might hold both a different view and better appreciation for the liberties and freedoms which exist in this country and would stop attempting to persecute Americans for their individual beliefs. By the way, that freedom also includes the rights of atheists and a host of other unsavory groups and belief centers to say and think out loud what it is they want to profess or to assemble and to do so with out fear of being persecuted by folks like you.

Our constitutional freedoms also protect your organization to say what it wants to say but only to the limit where your thoughts and actions begin to impede the rights of others. In that regard, and as you have clearly crossed the line and thus I have absolutely no hesitation in stating that individuals like you and your organization are dangerous and un-American. At the very minimal you should be ashamed of yourselves and at the most you should be labeled a subversive organization. You should also fall under the scrutiny of the constitutionally appointed organizations which are defenders of liberty and civil rights in this country and those would include the justice department and FBI who are empowered to investigate why you are violating the constitutional rights of other American citizens. In the later regard you are behaving like the Klu Klux Klan or the old American Communist Party used to behave before they were prosecuted over constitutional violations of the rights of other Americans and subsequently learned to restrict their activities to merely being expressive verbaly or in media. True your MO is different than those two groups but none the less destructive and hurtful to your victims whose careers and lives you wish to ruin simply because you disagree with their beliefs. Anyway, because you go beyond your constitutional rights and your ends are the same as the KKK, namely the suppression of the rights of others, accordingly you too should be investigated and placed on a watch list. You are in fact no different than any other hate group regardless of how you coach your reasons or attempt to camouflage yourselves.

THE FREE MARKET PLACE OF IDEAS WINS AND PREVAILS….

Finally, be careful what you sew and what tactics you threaten to employ against the victims of your intolerance. Old bible hugging, God fearing, gun totting guys like me, and millions more like me whose own or ancestral blood was spilled in defense of freedom ” have taken note of what is going on with your organization. I for one have only got to send out a few emails to become organized against you amidst the like minded. Also fortunately, for the cause of freedom, and unfortunately for you and other haters of our constitutional rights on left and right, there are lots of wealthy, semi-retired, old guys like me with more spare time and more money that they know what to do with and all just sitting around sharing and taking note of all this.

I also predict that some of us will organize and soon seek out the defense funds and attorneys of the people whom you are persecuting and will offer them our own resources. further, our actions will be not merely to defend against you but to GO AFTER you legally, too. I for one will gladly employ for free my own resources, time and vast life’s experiences in order to coordinate efforts to raise the funds for legal teams necessary to take the Weinstein’s of this country into court on issues of civil rights violations of the type being directed against cadets. As a side note it should be mentioned: Jury awards in proven violation of civil rights cases have NO cap and so even guys like George Soros might be financially strapped to save you. I should also mention that I have already accomplished this type of action on three past occasions in my life all in the course of dealing both with private and governmental organizations after they had either breeched or attempted to violate individual civil liberties. I have also never lost. It is also fun watching the arrogant enemies of freedom, truth, justice and liberty being legally crushed and ruined in a court room.

Sincerely, ” Little Head”


Dear MF, Actually this “little head” you refer to has earned three university degrees including one in International Economics from Rollins, an MA in History and another in Government Contract Law. “Little head” also, although semi-retired and enjoying his well earned beach home in Florida and thus having extra time to engage in bardonage with you, has also lived worked or traveled in over fifty countries and in the course of his career has also worked with, interfaced with or socilaized other “little heads” of state and senior civil and military officials (smaller heads), both US and foreign, and the “little head” has amongst other things also established and owned four corporations in other countries which have held contracts with foreign governments. “Little head”, although a ninth generation US Citizen descended from soldiers of the American Revolution and generally conservative or libertarian in most views, is engaged to a citizen of Portugal (little brown skinned tiny headed woman) and “Little Head” was also raised in Switzerland and has spent half his life living, working studying or traveling outside of the US and is thus also fluent in French and Spanish…Anyway, forgive me but there may not be much empty space left in my “little head” to absorb what you are relating but I will attempt to formulate a sensible response to it anyway:

DEAR MR. RUTH, PLEASE LET ME APOLOGIZE. FIRST, THIS RESPONSE IS LATE BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY DEMANDS ON MY TIME. BUT I HOPE YOU’LL ACCEPT AN APOLOGY FOR MY COMMENT ABOUT YOUR ‘LITTLE HEAD.’ IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE AND I UNDERSTAND WHY IT WAS MISUNDERSTOOD. IN FACT IT CAME FROM AN ODD SORT OF AFFECTION I FELT AFTER HAVING SPENT SO MUCH TIME PARSING AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR INITIAL MESSAGE. IT WAS NOT IN ANY WAY INTENDED TO SUGGEST THAT I FOUND YOU LACKING IN INTELLECTUAL DEPTH. THE DEFENSIVENESS OF YOUR REPLY TELLS ME THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU TOOK MY USE OF THE TERM TO MEAN AND I AM SORRY YOU TOOK IT THAT WAY. MY FAULT.

Regarding atheists as US citizens and their rights of free speech and association: You don’t have to like them or agree with them but you do need to leave them alone too and YES, if they want, they should have their own little niche or day to do what they want to do and you and your self-appointed organization need to also afford them respect and to bow out and leave them and all the rest alone too. Any individual or organized, chartered group should be allowed to believe in what they want to so long as they do so peacefully while also respecting the rights of others to do the same. Also, while you are leaving the atheists alone you should also keep your threats off the Christmas tree and the menorah and anything anyone else anyone wants to put up inside designated personal or public free speech areas on bases. That would represent both a good lesson on constitutional rights and liberties while also leading to greater concrete understanding and appreciation amongst military as to what ideals of freedom speech and tolerance they are fighting to protect really represent.

WELL, YOU SEE, WHAT YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HERE IS THAT BOTH THE CONSTITUTION AND MILITARY REGULATIONS REQUIRE JUST THE OPPOSITE. NO SUPPORT, EITHER DIRECT OR INFERENTIAL, FOR A PARTICULAR RELIGIOUS VIEW CAN BE ALLOWED BECAUSE IT PIERCES THE VEIL OF SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. INDIVIDUALS ARE WELCOME TO THEIR BELIEFS (OR NON-BELIEFS) AND THOSE CAN BE DISCUSSED AND CELEBRATED IN THE APPROPRIATE PLACES AND AT THE APROPRIATE TIMES. BUT NO OFFICER AND NO INSTITUTION CAN PROPERLY MAKE A STATEMENT OF SUPPORT FOR A FAITH OR ALLOW SAME BECAUSE OF THE IMPLICIT APPEARANCE OF AN ENDORSEMENT.

Meanwhile, the attempts by your organization to get cadets expelled for expressing their rights of freedom of speech and religion, in this instance by simply showing their personal preferences or respect to certain ideas by posting historical verses upon their own designated spaces outside their own doors and all done in accordance to rules handed to them years ago by the academy, smacks on your part of being religion haters and of commissars at work in darkest Russia!!

AGAIN, SADLY, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. WE HAVE NEVER MADE AN ATTEMPT TO GET A CADET EXPELLED FOR EXPRESSING HER OR HIS RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE. IN THE CASE IN QUESTION WE HAVE MERELY INFORMED THE ACADEMY LEADERSHIP OF THE CONCERN EXPRESSED BY OTHER CADETS AND STAFF ABOUT THE PUBLIC DISPLAY OF A RELIGIOUS VIEW AND ASK THAT IT BE RECTIFIED. THE ACADEMY LEADERSHIP TOOK THE QUESTION INTO CONSIDERATION AND DETERMINED THAT THE PUBLIC POSTING OF THE RELIGIOUS STATEMENT WAS INAPPROPRIATE AND ASKED THAT IT BE REMOVED. NO ONE WAS EXPELLED AND NO ONE ASKED THAT ANYONE BE EXPELLED.

Moreover, while I am not a Muslim or a Jew, I have studied their holy books too and even within those philosophies of life and religion I have found texts and verses which are truly universal and sensible and which are morally just truisms which have stood upon their own merits through the test of time and which have positively served mankind and inspired good behavior in people for thousands of years. In fact, I do not mind quoting or even applying some of those moral precepts from other faiths within my own personal code of ethics regardless of the source.

THAT’S FINE. WE HAVE MEMBERS OF ALL FAITHS AND NO FAITH AND ALL BELIEFS ARE WELCOME.

Moreover, either subconsciously or consciously, you yourself either live by or agree with thousands of civil laws and codes of behavior which all have their original basis in religious teaching and you do so every day whether you realize it or not. Thus, attempting to root out and strip that away, if successful, would return the world to a night of anarchy and barbarism! Moreover, there are far worse things which cadets could be doing besides showing their personal appreciation for some of the philosophical thoughts upon which our civilization is based. What if I wrote a quotation from Socrates, Gandhi or the Buddha on my little assigned chalk board? Would you demand my expulsion from the academy, too?? What is it exactly that you believe in again?

YES, YOU ARE CORRECT THAT MANY CODES OF BEHAVIOR ARE DERIVED FROM CERTAIN SETS OF BELIEFS, BUT MANY ARE SIMPLY HUMANIST OR HUMANITARIAN IN ORIGIN AS WELL. WE OPPOSE NONE OF THEM. WE ONLY INSIST THAT NO BELIEF SYSTEM BE FOIST ON A PERSON AGAINST HER OR HIS WILL, NO SUPERIOR MAY PROSELYTIZE ONE OF INFERIOR RANK, AND THAT NO GOVERNMENT BODY MAY EXPRESS BY ENDORSEMENT OR INFERENCE ONE BELIEF SYSTEM OVER ANOTHER.

WHAT I BELIEVE IN IS NOT IN QUESTION HERE. WHAT THE MRFF BELIEVES IN IS THE PROTECTION OF THE RIGHT OF EVERY MAN AND WOMAN IN THE MILITARY TO HER OR HIS FREE CHOICE, FREEDOM OF THOUGHT AND FREEDOM OF BELIEF.

The fact is that in the free market place of ideas ….ideas are like products for consumers to consider and in the end it is free individuals who also should choose what they want to accept and believe in or reject. Thus invariably, and in the course of freedom of thought and decision making, what is most useful and helpful to most reasonable people survives the test of time and propagates. Conversely, what does not serve the majority of human souls and consciences gets left behind and is rejected. That being said and what you need to understand, is that ideas of any philosophical persuasion when released inside a free society will either rise and fall upon their own merits and will do so all without people like you attempting to either suppress or regulate those ideas. This also known as being an integral part of Democracy and of freedom of thought and expression and if you are afraid of that sort of freedom then you have some other serious issues and malevolent agendas. Could it be that your ideas simply will not stand up to the scrutiny of logic in day light and so you must attempt to quash all others in order to make you own opinions prevail?? That is called dogmatism and tyranny and many people have died so the rest of us would not have to live under such regimes.

NO SIR. IT IS YOU WHO FAILS TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FREEDOM IN OUR SOCIETY AND THE RESTRICTIONS IMPOSED UPON THOSE IN THE MILITARY, BOTH BY REGULATION AND BY CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT.

Your further contention that some how your organization is not all that bad because you are also attempting to suppress a group of atheists gives me goose bumps! So what are you saying then……that you are equal opportunity persecutors? The fact is that if anyone does not want to attend a Christmas party or conclave of atheists they merely have the right to stay away without consequences. Don’t listen and don’t attend and if enough people eventually reach the same conclusions about such events and holidays then those organizations and groups will whither away and become extinct the same as other bad products…but people do not need your help in deciding what is best for themselves.

NO, SIR. WHAT WE’RE SAYING IS THAT A CONTEST OF BELIEF SYSTEMS IS NO MORE APPROPRIATE IN A MILITARY CONTEXT THAN IS A SHOVING CONTEST BETWEEN OFFICERS AND ENLISTED. THE MILITARY HAS CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT MUST BE OBEYED. THE CHOICE OF ONE’S FAITH IS A PRIVATE AND PERSONAL MATTER AND CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE A SUBJECT TO BE PROMOTED OR DEMOTED, DEBATED OR SOLICITED.

There is also an organization called DEOMI with offices every American military base to which any service person may address complaints of any form of discrimination and abuse they suffer either by peers or superiors. Thus, in that regard, the military is already doing what needs to done anyway to establish a non hostile work place and to that end provides excellent ombudsmen and mechanisms for re dressing serious grievances. In fact the US military is already one of the fairest and least hostile work places in the world to be in and does not need your help to improve itself.

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU’RE QUITE MISTAKEN. WERE THIS ORGANIZATION TO BE AS SUCCESSFUL IN THE TASK YOU ASCRIBE TO IT, THE MRFF WOULD NOT HAVE THE ACTIVE SUPPORT, ENCOURAGEMENT AND GRATITUDE OF THE THOUSANDS OF WOMEN AND MEN IN THE MILITARY IT ENJOYS TODAY.

Moreover, only when people or groups such as yours, attempt to suppress or impose their own unique world view over all others and also do so while acting under the delusion or dangerous pre-supposition that their own philosophy is correct and superior above all others, does an organization become peril to the individual liberties endowed upon us by our Constitution. By the way, that document actually states that those rights “are endowed by God” and not by the government, or courts and it certainly does not say that they should further be decided upon or regulated by the Mr. Weinstein’s of the world, either. Anyway, put that in your pipe and smoke it and let that roll around inside your own head.

I SUSPECT YOU MEAN “ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR,” WHICH IS IN THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

YOU SEEM QUITE STUCK IN A MISAPPREHENSION OF WHAT THE MRFF IS DOING. IN A PHRASE, “GET OVER IT.” WE IMPOSE NOTHING; WE OPPOSE OVERT OR SUBVERSIVE PROSELYTIZING. WE SUPPRESS NOTHING; WE ENCOURAGE FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS BELIEF AND WORK TO BRING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE NEED FOR SAME TO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF. YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE CONSTITUTION APPARENTLY DIFFERS FROM THE LEGAL SCHOLARS WHO RECOGNIZE AND ENDORSE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

In that regard people like you are in fact the greatest danger to freedom both inside this country and to the rest of the world at large and are NOT the defenders of freedom as you represent yourselves to be. I am certain that you would also try to have the US Constitution repealed or revoked, or parts redacted,…especially the word “God” part if your group could figure out how build a case to do it. Bit of advice though: Ever try to tamper with the US Constitution and you might find a surprising alliance of atheists, Satanists, Christians,Muslims and Jews all standing shoulder to shoulder to oppose you..if in fact that alliance does not already exist.

I THINK THAT ALLIANCE MAY EXIST IN SUPPORT OF WHAT WE’RE DOING.

Meanwhile, I don’t think that you even have a clue about what a “hostile work environment” is really like and I also hazard that if you had ever spent any time in some of the places abroad where I have lived you might hold both a different view and better appreciation for the liberties and freedoms which exist in this country and would stop attempting to persecute Americans for their individual beliefs. By the way, that freedom also includes the rights of atheists and a host of other unsavory groups and belief centers to say and think out loud what it is they want to profess or to assemble and to do so with out fear of being persecuted by folks like you.

HOW CAN YOU CLAIM TO KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT US WHEN YOU KNOW SO LITTLE?

Our constitutional freedoms also protect your organization to say what it wants to say but only to the limit where your thoughts and actions begin to impede the rights of others. In that regard, and as you have clearly crossed the line and thus I have absolutely no hesitation in stating that individuals like you and your organization are dangerous and un-American. At the very minimal you should be ashamed of yourselves and at the most you should be labeled a subversive organization. You should also fall under the scrutiny of the constitutionally appointed organizations which are defenders of liberty and civil rights in this country and those would include the justice department and FBI who are empowered to investigate why you are violating the constitutional rights of other American citizens. In the later regard you are behaving like the Klu Klux Klan or the old American Communist Party used to behave before they were prosecuted over constitutional violations of the rights of other Americans and subsequently learned to restrict their activities to merely being expressive verbaly or in media. True your MO is different than those two groups but none the less destructive and hurtful to your victims whose careers and lives you wish to ruin simply because you disagree with their beliefs. Anyway, because you go beyond your constitutional rights and your ends are the same as the KKK, namely the suppression of the rights of others, accordingly you too should be investigated and placed on a watch list. You are in fact no different than any other hate group regardless of how you coach your reasons or attempt to camouflage yourselves.

I’M BEGINNING TO BE SORRY I’VE WASTED SO MUCH TIME TRYING TO REASON WITH YOU.

THE FREE MARKET PLACE OF IDEAS WINS AND PREVAILS….

THAT MAY BE SO, HOWEVER, THE MILITARY IS NOT THE FREE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS.

Finally, be careful what you sew and what tactics you threaten to employ against the victims of your intolerance. Old bible hugging, God fearing, gun totting guys like me, and millions more like me whose own or ancestral blood was spilled in defense of freedom ” have taken note of what is going on with your organization. I for one have only got to send out a few emails to become organized against you amidst the like minded. Also fortunately, for the cause of freedom, and unfortunately for you and other haters of our constitutional rights on left and right, there are lots of wealthy, semi-retired, old guys like me with more spare time and more money that they know what to do with and all just sitting around sharing and taking note of all this.

AM IT TO TAKE THAT AS A THREAT? “GUN TOTING GUYS” LIKE YOU? WOULD YOU CARE TO EXPLAIN THAT? MENTIONING GUNS, AND TALKING ABOUT SENDING OUT “A FEW EMAILS TO BECOME ORGANIZED AGAINST” US IS NOT SOMETHING THAT OUR ORGANIZATION TAKES LIGHTLY. DEATH THREATS FROM ANTI-SEMITES AND OTHER CRAZIES, AS WELL AS THOSE WHO PROCLAIM THEMSELVES TO BE CHRISTIANS BUT HAVE NO APPARENT COMPREHENSION OF THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS ARE FAIRLY COMMON OCCURRENCES HERE, SAD TO SAY, AND NONE OF THEM ARE TAKEN LIGHTLY. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF CAREFULLY AND MAKE KNOWN YOUR INTENTIONS.

I also predict that some of us will organize and soon seek out the defense funds and attorneys of the people whom you are persecuting and will offer them our own resources. further, our actions will be not merely to defend against you but to GO AFTER you legally, too. I for one will gladly employ for free my own resources, time and vast life’s experiences in order to coordinate efforts to raise the funds for legal teams necessary to take the Weinstein’s of this country into court on issues of civil rights violations of the type being directed against cadets. As a side note it should be mentioned: Jury awards in proven violation of civil rights cases have NO cap and so even guys like George Soros might be financially strapped to save you. I should also mention that I have already accomplished this type of action on three past occasions in my life all in the course of dealing both with private and governmental organizations after they had either breeched or attempted to violate individual civil liberties. I have also never lost. It is also fun watching the arrogant enemies of freedom, truth, justice and liberty being legally crushed and ruined in a court room.

I DO WISH YOU WELL IN YOUR PURSUIT, DEMENTED AS IT APPEARS TO BE.

Sincerely, ” Little Head”

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a few sites http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/a-few-sites/ http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2014/04/a-few-sites/#comments Sun, 13 Apr 2014 10:32:19 +0000 http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/?p=19158 Mr. Taylor
If you want to continue trashing Christian’s go right ahead, I’m right there with you. I’ve been burned by some myself.
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You are incorrect to suppose I am “trashing Christians.” I am merely stating historic facts, backed up by copious and well-documented evidence, both contemporary from the words of the individuals concerned, and from authoritative histories by respected scholars from accredited institutions.

If you consider that Christianity is being “trashed” by my stating these facts, then it is “trashing” itself.

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When the bible is concerned, however, when considering the evidence for or against, the finality is faith on both sides of the issue. Yes, your rejection of the authority of the bible is based on faith even for you Mr. Taylor.

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I have amply covered this in one of my recent Es (which you may not have read, or if so, obviously not carefully), so I will pass on. However, my “rejection” is based on the factual evidence, as opposed to blind, unreasoning “faith” — which I personally have no faith in.

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My faith survives books like Jesus Interrupted by Bart Ehrman, who certainly comes across sounding like he knows what he’s talking about when all his book really is is his own bias disguised as textual criticism. Really just textual manipulation actually.

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As to tour faith, it is not an issue (for me at least). As I said, it is your right under the Constitution.

However, it is instructive to note that in your opinion, Professor Ehrman, PhD, a distinguished scholar who was educated at Princeton Theological Seminary, Moody Bible Institute, and Wheaton College, a world-reknowned and acknowledged leading New Testament scholar, an expert in the field, who holds the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and who has written and edited over twenty-five books, including three college textbooks and four NYT bestsellers is merely a “textual manipulator.” Fascinating!

Pray, sir, please be so kind as to share with me your own doubtless equally distinguished scholarly credentials that enabled you to discern this, when so many distinguished scholars around the world seem to have missed it?

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You claim to be defending all those defenseless recruits from “wolves in sheep’s clothing” religious people but really from what it looks like it’s mainly those that call themselves Christians you’re worried about.

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“Who call themselves Christians?” Now, as with your earlier comment on racism, we seem to be getting to the heart of the matter. You, (like the Dominionists) seem to feel that it’s up to you to decide who is and who isn’t really a Christian. Who died and left you god? I seem to have missed that announcement. That, sir, is exactly what the Framers were concerned about. See my last for details, and as Madison said;

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“Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects.”

I’ll say again, when the behavior gets out of line I’ll back you up 100% but going after a cadet’s dry erase board??? REALLY don’t you have better things to do with your apparently unlimited time?

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I guarantee you I will defend the Constitution I swore to uphold and defend whenever it is breached, and I don’t consider that there is anything better to do with my time.

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You may have chosen to write off the bible’s inconvenient truth but I choose not to based on evidential faith that is at least as good as the “evidence” you have in your arsenal to try and trash it.

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As I have stated from the beginning, you are welcome to believe in whatever you wish. Nobody is disputing that. That is your Constitutional right — just as it is for everyone else in this country.

As to the bible’s truth or otherwise, I don’t find it the least bit inconvenient, because I don’t think of it as anything other than another religious text, like many others through the millennia — interesting from a scholastic and theological POV, but I no more believe it is entirely truthful or based on fact than I believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, or the Cosmic Muffin — which I am likewise free to do, thanks to our Constitution.

Your phrase “evidentiary faith” is an oxymoron. There is “evidence” (which is based on facts), and there is “faith” (which is based on belief). They are two entirely separate matters.

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Agnostic types are plentiful so you’re not the first one I’ve interacted with and even used to be one myself when I was very young.

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And “religious types” are even more plentiful. I have also been an agnostic since I was very young — and have found no reason to alter my opinion since that time.

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You sent me a bunch of web sites so here are a few for you. My assortment is not nearly as extensive as yours

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Looking them over, I find it is nothing I haven’t seen before in the way of Christian apologetics (many of them far more qualified and better written than these), and since some emanate from groups who are either Dominionist or Reconstructionist in nature, I can’t imagine how or why you think I would be swayed by their pathetic arguments.

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since I don’t have as much time to sit around and continue to formulate opinions to support my conclusions since I’m not collecting a check from the government to pay my bills. which you may or may not be (as a taxpayer you’re welcome by the way if you are collecting one – I’ll remind you that I thank you for, you, what was likely voluntary, service – unless you were conscripted in which case I’m sorry for that).

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In the first place, I don’t “formulate opinions to support my conclusions” — I leave that to those who cannot support their opinion with documented facts and citations (such as I use to support my opinions), and instead rely on “faith” and “belief” based on magical thinking.

As it happens, I am collecting a government check (which goes only a short way towards “paying my bills”), but while I certainly do thank you for your contribution to the common weal, I don’t feel I am somehow obligated to you, because I (like all servicemen and women) paid taxes both while in the service — except for the time I was in Vietnam, when my munificent government pay of less than $1538 (for the entire 13 months) was tax-free — for those of us who lived to collect it.

After I was invalided out, I worked for over 30 years in the private sector, and paid taxes there as well. In retirement now, I still pay local, state and federal taxes.
So your point is…?

I was indeed a volunteer, as were all my forbears. I volunteered for the Marines, for Vietnam, and for a combat MOS and duty (after being given a relatively safe clerical job). I also volunteered to go back to Khe Sanh, where all hell had broken loose with the eruption of the Tet Offensive of 1968 , when I was released from the hospital — even though I was scheduled for 30 more days in recuperation.

As to my reasons, I can guarantee you I wasn’t in it for the money. My first pay was under $90 — for the month. When I was invalided out, my pay had risen (based on my rank and years of service) to the princely sum of $704.40. I wanted to serve and protect my country and our way of life, including our Constitution. That remains my motivation.

However, I do like the left-handed “thank-you for your service, but you can thank me for your pay-check” crack. Very deft.. or do I mean daft. Did you ever stop to think that your ability to earn your pay depended on the men and women who were serving then and now? (BTW, I still haven’t heard about your own military credentials, if any. You must have a great knowledge of the military in order to be able to decide what is and isn’t a problem.)

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Despite your concerns I can assure you that we have much more to worry about in Barrack Obama and what he and his ilk are doing to America

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And what, pray tell would that be? Trying to provide the poor, sick, and needy (including many women and children) of this country and elsewhere with food, medicine, and shelter? How heinous!! How frightening!! He sounds like another commie agitator I heard of. (One of them damned Jews, of course!) He went around healing the sick, clothing the naked, and feeding the hungry too — but the Romans had a solution for commie agitators like that! They crucified him, and doubtless it served him right!

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than we do from 99% of mostly well meaning misguided Christians.

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I think you’ll find the number who subscribe to Dominion theology are larger than you believe — or would find, if you’d do any of the suggested research.
As to well-meaning, misguided Christians, they can be a nuisance, but it is the blind and would-be murderous zealots seeking political power who are the main concern.

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Despite historical tragedies like the holocaust, which you erroneously and feebly want to pin on some kind of mythical connection Hitler had with the church (when he was likely an occultist)

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“mythical” ???? “erroneously and feebly”???

DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT HITLER HIMSELF SAID AND WROTE, SIR ????

As usual, I sent you copious documents and cited examples, and you respond with THIS???? Talk about “erroneous and feeble”!!
Again (as usual), you respond not with facts or documented evidence, but what you “believe” or what was “likely” or what some other (equally uniformed) person told you or that you read somewhere in some Christian apologist’s revision of history!!!

I suppose you think Martin Luther (whose quotes I also gave you, and who Hitler stated and wrote that he greatly admired) was an “occultist” too, and that I “erroneously and feebly” tried to “pin some kind of mythical connection with the church” on him also by sending you his exact words????

The Holocaust was not an “historical tragedy” — it was the end result of 1900 years of vicious and unrelenting Christian dogma and hatred of the Jews, who they blamed for killing the (ironically) Jewish rabbi who they believed was a god.

Beginning with Saul of Tarsus and going right up on through Martin Luther and on through Hitler, this dogma and hatred continues unabated in many Christian churches to this very day. (I have personally heard it preached from the pulpit.)

They blamed all Jews, men women and children, not just the Sanhedrin of the time, and for all time — they blamed and still blame Jews who had not even been alive at the time.

“Historical tragedy” my maiden aunt!

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I hate to think of what the last several hundred years would have been like without the restraining influences you so eagerly want to try and blame for most of the worlds ill’s.

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WHAT “restraining influences”? The “restraining influences” that were behind the slaughter of Hypatia and many other brilliant people, and destruction of the Library of Alexandria, and many other aspects of the great Greco-Roman cultural heritage because they were “pagan”? The Crusades (including those against Christian “heretics” like the Cathars and Arians)? The many “martyrdoms” and wars involving one group of Christians merrily slaughtering others for ridiculous differences of opinion? The “restraining influences” that led the Western nations to slaughter, conquer and exploit other less technologically or militarily advanced places and peoples around the world, usually at least partly in the name of their “god”? The “restraining influences” that launched the pogroms against the Jews and others over the millennia?

And you think things could have somehow been worse than the last two millennia of endless bloodshed, slaughter, and horror, much of it in the name of Christianity or some other religion, under another belief (or no) system???? What color is the sky on your planet???

I will agree that humans being what they are, things would not be likely to have been much better under any other religion — or even no religion.
However I will NOT agree that they have somehow been “better” just because a follower of some particular flavor of religion “believes” it to be so.

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I do pray though that you somehow find fulfillment in you restlessness but this will be unlikely with you current focus.

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Thanks, but I don’t need your prayers, as I don’t believe in either the practice or your deity.

As for “fulfillment” — while I don’t expect that what the MRFF is doing is going to prevail or change the world or humanity, which (religious or not) has a grievous history of stupidity, greed and murder, there’s a certain amount of fulfillment in standing up for the Constitution and for reason over superstition. That will have to do for me.

Sincerely,

F. J. Taylor

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