MRFF INBOX RE: JESUS RIFLES
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Dear MRFF:

I just read the story in the Post about rifle sight bible inscriptions.

I believe that the contracting office can and should have the contractor remove, at his expense, any such unauthorized markings that are placed on purchased material.

Do not accept that it is legal or permitted to fashion contracted items in any manner not specifically called for in the contract specifications and drawings. At least that was the case when I worked on the Procurement IG team at The Army Material Command.

My small donation to the MFFF will be in the mail today.

(name witheld), LTC (Ret.)

Also Retired Procurement Analyst, Dept of the Army


MRFF:

I just read the article about Trijicon putting Bible verses on telescopes lenses used by U.S. military. I am GLAD they are doing it! Simple Bible verses can bring enormous comfort to the troops, most of whom are Christians. You say you are for religious freedom. I don't think so. I think you want freedom FROM religion, which is your right. It is NOT your right to discriminate against Christians. That is all this is about. Any other religion, or Athiest, has a right to say what they want, but not Christians. There is getting to be quite a backlash against groups like yours. You distort the truth. YOUR headline said "U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes" Uh, there is nothing "secret" about how references to biblical verses are written. The Constitution guarantees people of the United State the freedom from religious persecution. You are persecuting Christians, and I find it extrememly offensive. STOP!!!

(name witheld)


Mikey,

Great job, Mr. Weinstein and proud to be a regular visitor of your website. Hope to contribute financially again some time soon.
Here, cut and pasted from an email I sent to Trijicon is what I wrote upon reading the good news:

President of Trijicon,

I do commend you on the release today of a press statement promising you and your company will immediately stop inscribing Jesus quotes on the sights of many of the guns you supply to the US Army and other international armies.
I deplore you and your company's members never had the temerity to be upfront about it in the first place. For Gen. Petraeus to act like he didn't know what was going on, esp. given his credentials as a very strong Evangelical Christian believer, is appaling, but I guess I'll have to take that up with him personally.

Together with Mike Weinstein, know that we may be a minority when it comes to religion here in the US (or non-religion), but we will continuously work to expose truths about the rapid vanishing wall between military and religion in the US, a country I would fight for with my bare hands rather than one gun with a bible quote on it. I embraced this country for exactly the separation of church and state at all levels but esp. in the military, for without it, we do not become anything more than a version of the Muslim jihadists. I uphold all the rights of the Constitution, including the right for me to own and bear arms.

As I travel to Afghanistan and other countries in its' area many times, I can assure you that even pro-American -minded people are disgusted at the notion you did this in the dark, in a sneaky way. Let's hope you and others will now also stop from using translated bibles there. People spreading the word of Jesus/Christ can always go home and be rescued if things go wrongly. The poor people whom they tried to convert however, and I know this first-hand, are the ones who are chased out from their homes and worse, beheaded.
Enough said, do your job like the men (and women) you want us to believe you are: honest and loyal to the US Constitution.

(name witheld)


MRFF,

Christian beliefs were not brought into the government like you say. Our government was founded on Christian beliefs, based on Christian values. People like you make it their lives work to remove Christ from our government. This is a large part of the reason we are in the spot we are in.

As far as your take on fueling the enemies hate of America with Christian verses on our guns, this is a typical liberal pacifist view that I can assure you is not shared by the MAJORITY of military personnel. You are in the minority. If you understood the Islamic religion you would realize they do not need fuel to hate America. It is what their religion teaches that fuels their hatred. Just the fact that we are Americans is enough for these fanatics. A bible verse hidden on a scope is not going to make a lick of difference. It is simply an opportunity for folks like you to push your anti GOD agenda and you know it.

There are far more worthy causes out there to use your energy on. Do the honorable thing and seek them out.

(name witheld)

RESPONSE:

(withheld),

Hope you don't mind, this is Casey Weinstein, Mikey's son, responding to your email as my dad is inundated with (mostly positive) support at the moment.
I understand how passionate you are about your beliefs - and we respect that and recognize that all Americans are entitled to these beliefs. Once those beliefs are brought into the government (and particularly the military), though, problems ensue. I know as I've been a victim of these problems during my 7+ years in the Air Force. My father also served for 14+ years, my brother is still in active service, and many more of our family members have served. We are veterans and understand this issue from the inside out.
The goal of our foundation is to help the thousands of honorable servicemen and women who contact us when they are facing discrimination based on their religious or spiritual beliefs. We really just work for a better-functioning, more cohesive, and ultimately more effective military.
In the case of the scopes, see our point of view. Having these scopes in the AOR overseas is enormously dangerous to our deployed military members. Thousands of our weapons end up in the hands of our enemies each year, and these scopes will serve as the PERFECT recruitment tool for more to take up arms against us. It's bad policy and puts our men and women in harm, particularly if they were to be captured with these.

Do you see where we're coming from?

Thanks for your passion,
Casey Weinstein

 


Dear MRFF,

I have just read the BBC article on the Trijicon company's policy of inscribing Christian quotations. This is a gross misuse and inappropriate assertion of religious values. I hope you are successful in stopping this outrageous practice. The military has no business doing business with religious fanatics. It is, as you assert, a violation of separation of church and state. Thanks for listening.

(name witheld)


Mikey,

Please tell Mikey Weinstein, who said he was "outraged" because Bible references were on military weapons, that I am outraged by his statement! I think he said something about this being no way to make friends of the Afghanistan people - maybe it is a way to save them forever! Telling them about Christ is not evil or wrong - it is a wonderful gesture of love! And what a nice comfort for those soldiers who are fighting for US - for our freedom and safety - to see these references. Did those letters harm anyone? NO. I am very upset that he would say this is wrong or offensive, as to me, HE is offensive. There are much more important issues to be concerned about than this one! So drop it and be thankful these weapons are good and there are those willing to serve for our nation. Thank you.

(name witheld)
Kansas, USA

RESPONSE:

Dear (withheld),

As a colleague of Mikey's I too am appalled at the inscriptions on our military weapons. You are clearly making a few erroneous base assumptions.

1) that all dedicated and courageous men and women in the US military are zealot Christians who naively mistake their job to defend the US Constitution as somehow an invitation to proselityze, evangelize and/or witness to those of other faiths. These inscriptions encourage this misconception of a Holy War between Christians and Islamics.

2) It is not the job of the US military to use its soldiers and/or supplies to spread the Christian doctrine. If you are supportive of that it is certainly your free right to support efforts by US churches and missions in their quest to convert souls for Christ.

3) Even though the majority of our military personnel are Christian, there are also many soldiers and personnel that are of various faiths and no faith at all. Consequently, these verses are usurping the rights of fellow soldiers freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion.

4) No one at MRFF is in any way suggesting that the bible verses are "wrong or evil". As a Protestant Christian myself, that is the last message that we are sending. What IS wrong, is to force any singular religion upon others. This would be creating a theocracy...something that our Founding Fathers spent great effort to avoid.

5) Did those letters harm anyone? Yes, they have. Profoundly. Which is why this story was brought to MRFF's attention by numerous soldiers afraid to speak out. If these inscriptions are so inocuous and inconsequential...why do you care whether they are there or not? Why did the manufacturer care to take the time and spend the money to make them present? If they are that irrelevant...seems to me this was a waisted effort.

6) "these weapons are good"...is a statement that simply has all kinds of wrong going on with it. It is purely disturbing.

We agree with you that there are many important issues to be concerned about, and this is a manifestation of the infestation of Christian Dominionist extremism weedling its way into our politics and government.

Here is some reference material for your perusal:

We’ve heard it all said a hundred times – that America is a Christian nation, that it was founded as a Christian nation, that the Founding Fathers were Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian men, that there is no Wall of Separation between Church and State.

The only problem is, none of it is true.


And the 18th century’s own Evangelicals signed off on the system of government those very secular-minded Founding Fathers established.


Back in the 18th century, you see, people were a lot closer to the events that shaped the new nation. They had close personal experience with the dangers of Church and State meddling in each other’s business. They knew what it was to be persecuted, not by a secular government but by a government under the control of another denomination.


They wanted protection. From each other.

America is a nation full of Christians, though there are fewer and fewer of them these days. We have many who are Jews, Muslims, Eastern religions as well as modern Paganisms. And that’s not including the Atheists and Agnostics.

It’s not the “good old days” anymore homogenized Christianity, Julie. White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are a diminishing breed and they’re not happy about the threat to their status. This has been made abundantly clear in recent years with the appeal to the idea of America being founded as a Christian Nation…as you assert here. But you are very simply…Wrong.

America was founded as a secular nation that just happened to be full of Christians who actually wanted it that way. That’s right; the 18th century’s Evangelicals wanted a secular government. Why?

Because they’d seen the horrors government sponsored religion was capable of.

Another claim we hear a lot of is that America was “founded on Christian principles.” I’d like to ask which principles we’re talking about here.

Ø Was it democracy, perhaps? No, that was invented in Pagan Greece.

Ø Free speech? No, there was no free speech in ancient Israel. Saying what you thought there got you killed. Free speech is another product of Greek Paganism.

Ø Free Inquiry? No, no such thing in the Bible. They didn’t want you asking too many questions. “Heresy” means “choice” after all. Choosing is bad, bad, bad! And then some!

Ø Individual human Rights, perhaps! No, wrong again. That’s a product of the secular European Enlightenment. Individual human rights aren’t found in the Bible. The Bible tells you to conform! Conform or be stoned – or go to hell, or be tortured, stoned, burned, and then go to hell.

Ø Equal Rights? No, another product of the European Enlightenment there.

Ø Ethics? No, Pagan Greeks did the first studies of ethics.

Ø Codes of Laws? No, those were around a long time before the Old Testament got penned.

Ø Morality? No…people were also moral a long time before the Old Testament got penned. I mean, that’s why they made law codes.

We really seem to be running out of principles here…oh wait, that’s not us…that’s the group claiming America was founded on Christian principles…like yourself and history revisionists like Beck & Co.!

When we start looking for the so-called Christian principles upon which America is founded, we seem to run smack into a wall. All the principles adopted by the Founding Fathers either predate Christianity and the Bible or came in reaction to religious oppression – not from the Middle Ages, but from the European Enlightenment.

I’m afraid if we get to Christian principles we’re going to end up with things like Inquisitions, Holy Wars, Witch Burnings, Heresies, and the like. Those things our Founding Fathers absolutely did NOT want as part of the new nation.

The Constitution (Article VI) even expressly prohibits religious tests for office, and that’s another one we’ve been seeing a lot lately.

So what are conservative Christian bigots to do? They can't even cite mottos as evidence of Christian Nationalism by our Founding Fathers:

Ø “In God we Trust” isn’t original. The original motto of America was “E Pluribus Unum” translated means – “Out of many, One”. A celebration of diversity. Now, isn’t that something?

Ø In fact, “In God we Trust” didn’t even appear on coins until 1864 and it wasn’t made the national motto until 1956.

Ø “One Nation, Under God?” No…that was added to the Pledge of Allegiance only in 1948 (the Pledge itself dates from 1892).

In fact, contrary to the claims of the “Christian Nation” crowd, the further we go back in our Nation’s history the less God we find intruding on our daily lives. And the folks in the 18th century wanted it that way.

That’s why government can’t establish religion; that’s why it can’t support one religion over another; that’s why it can’t privilege Christianity, contrary to the wishes of today’s conservative Christians. And that is why it is considered beyond inappropriate to inscribe references to any one religion on a weapon in our secular military, paid for by citizens of ALL and NO faith in the United States of America. How outraged would you be if the inscriptions were from the Koran?

All religions are equal in the United States – or at least they’re supposed to be, the Pledge and the new motto are aberrations, not evidence for something, but against it.

Those are the cold hard facts, folks. You don’t have to like the facts, but as a wise man said, “you’re not entitled to your own facts.” And I would add, your own version of Christianity either.

It will benefit us ALL to have a more informed citizenry!

 

May God grant you peace,

 

Leah L Burton, USA

Military Religious Freedom Foundation


Dear Sir,

In a recent press release you or those of your staff note that a biblical reference on Trijicon sites supplied to the military was in violation of the Constitution. I would assume you mean the Constitution of the United States of America. Would you do me the kindness to copy me as to what section of that document prohibits expression of religion on items supplied to our military? I am unable to locate such in my copy.

Sincerely yours,

(name withheld)


RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

Thanks for your message. It's good to hear from someone in (location withheld). A spent a few months up at (location withheld) in the 60's and got to like the people very much.  

As you know, the First Amendment to our Constitution reads, in part,   "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" The "establishment"  clause has been interpreted by the Supreme Court as meaning that all government, federal, state and local, may not establish, endorse, elevate, recommend, give exclusive rights to, favor, prefer publicly or proselytize any particular religion, irrespective of its majority. The "Free exercise" clause has been interpreted to mean the free and open practice of one's faith within the scope of constitutional and civil law.   However Free Exercise does not permit ingestion of Class One Controlled Substances, animal or human sacrifice, disturbing the peace, holding sectarian services in venues such as  public schools, government buildings or reservations, or other government facilities where people of differing faiths are required to attend and more.   

The act of stamping gun sights with exclusive Christian scriptural references which are sold to the government and installed on weapons  employed to kill Muslims is tantamount to  government endorsing a Christian Crusade against Islam rather than terrorism.

That is why Trijicon has admitted its mistake and will no ling stamp gun sights scheduled for military use to be so stamped and will rectify all past deliveries. 

You must remember that the average  amendment is only a few sentences long but over the years the Supreme Court has made thousands of rulings and decisions which became part and parcel of the amendment.   It would be well for you to look up some of the rulings on the separation of church and state which address the issues of which we have spoken. 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

Just wanted to express my total dismay at your website and purpose in life. So, please **** YOURSELF!


RESPONSE:

Dear (name withheld) ,

Thank you for your kind wishes.  

You have represented your faith well.  I am sure that at this  very moment, Jesus is looking down upon you with a tear of approval in his eye.

How gentle and Christian-like is your message to  us and how warming your personal concern for our sexual happiness. However, we have taken up two party sex of late and will cede the self gratification to those of you who graduated, with honors, from the Institute of Manual Catharsis.

So in return, may I say  have a pleasant relationship with yourself  too.  

 

Richard Baker 

Director of Inane Message Answering and

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

By publicizing the practice that has been going on for two decades you have given succor to our Muslim enemies!  The Council on American-Islamic Relations, meanwhile, called the presence of the markings “a potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces” and a Muslim Public Affairs Council official said they provided “propaganda ammo to extremists who claim there is a ‘Crusader war against Islam’ by the United States.”

Trijicon had included the biblical references alongside other markings on its products for more than two decades, a practice it ascribed in a statement this week to “our faith and our belief in service to our country.”

I have no love for military religious extremism or any other kind of religious extremism but this a tempest in a tea pot.  If anyone is a zealot it is you “Mikey”!

You said the sights endanger troops. "This plays right into the hands of maniacs who say, 'Look, it's a jihad,'" you said, that you have received several complaints from soldiers and Marines as in the below winning of “several” so-called military participants!  What balderdash and hogwash!  These individuals need to be examined by base psychiatrists and if found unfit should be given a medical discharge.

Again, don’t you have better things to do with your life or start taking some meds for OCD!  By the way I sent a supportive email to the company you defamed!

Regards,

(name withheld) PhD MPH


RESPONSE:

Mr. (name withheld),

Please excuse my anger as I have been involved in addressing  a number of what I consider to be almost cult-like communications from self identified Christians who appear to be practicing the Rev. Jim Jones brand of religion.  This in reference to the Trijicon sights.

You rational thought processes seem to have been intercepted and rerouted by your religious beliefs. 

Why spend all that money getting an education and then throw it all away in some religious dumbing down process. From all indications your intellect  stands  squarely between Bishop Tomas De Torquemada and Cotton Mather.

You also commit the fatal error of a sycophant. You kill the messenger.  Our disclosure of the exclusive Christian  scriptural references stamped on government equipment uncovered a direct violation of constitutional law. That would be secular law, you know, the one to which you are responsible?  It seems to me a PHD would have researched the rulings and decisions of the Supreme Court and their effect on the First Amendment. That would have answered you question and prevented you from appearing to be an idiot in your e-mail.  

Should you forget, may I remind you that America is a secular nation founded on pluralistic values in which all religions and non-beliefs may flourish but none dominate. You. sir, are a Christian Supremacist,   who would elevate Christianity above the others an act which is not far removed from the Taliban Charter. 

Religious extremism, by any name, is the bane of society. Apparently your PHD is not in world history or you would have known that.

The US Military,  our theater commander, our allies who also use the weapons  on which the Trijicon sights are mounted all agree that this was an egregious error and violated the very essence of Democracy.   If you  have the opportunity review Centcom General Order #1 signed by General Portreus you will note that it forbids proselytizing to Iraq and Afghan citizens.  The issuing of these sights to Iraqi and Afghan military and trainees directly violated that order.

Watching this story develop and the number of inane communications we have received from those completely in the thrall of dark religious adherence such as yourself, makes it somewhat  easier for me to understand how an entire nation of Germans fell under the spell of charismatic lunatics.  Not to mention the traitorous Pope Pius XII who signed the Vatican Accord with Adolph Hitler, thus sealing the fate of over six million Jews.   

As you must now be aware, Trijicon has admitted its error and will remove all exclusive Christian scriptural references from  its current stock of sights and provide methods to remove those already in service.  

Try to focus on the responsibilities of a mortal  American. There is time enough for your celestial citizenship later.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

I am a police detective and am about to buy a new side arm. (Glock 45) Trijicon sights are more expensive so I didn't plan on buying them. However, thanks to your bringing the "secret Jesus versus" to my attention, I am going to spring the extra cash and get Trijicon night sights installed on my gun. Mostly as a rebuke of your biggoted, Christian hating, one sided agenda. No one even knew about these versus until you selfservingly and oh so publicly, made an issue of them. It is YOU who have "gave additional incentive and emboldenment to recruiters for our nation’s enemies." I mean really "outragous!" and "a vile national security threat"??? Get off your soap box and give me a break.

To Trijicon, who is also getting this e-mail. Thank you. Thank you for making an excellent product. I don't care if you put Peace signs and gang graffiti on your sights. Law enforcement is behind you and against pathetic, do-gooder whiners who spend all their time combing the world looking for anything they can to complain about and then make a public spectical jumping around saying look at me, look at me! Look what I found!!

(name withheld)


RESPONSE:

Dear (name withheld)

Aren't police detectives required to have at least an eighth grade education?  Your grammar and spelling are atrocious.  

I'm afraid all the hate seems to be nestled squarely on your side of the religious bigotry. As a police detective, surely you know that these exclusive Christian scripture markings are against the law and violate the first amendment.?  If not you should go back on patrol while you take night classes. 

So before you start spouting off to those who know their business, take a break and get educated. 

You do not inspire confidence in law enforcement, if in fact, you are in law enforcement.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear Mr. Weinstein:

     Please stop persecuting Christians.  The United States' armed forces are not establishing religion by purchasing Trijicon scopes that reflect Trijicon's belief in Jesus Christ.  The United States of American is a Christian nation, whether you like it or not.  The government is secular, but the people are overwhelmingly Christian, and Jesus Christ is our savior.  It is Jesus Christ who protects our soldiers and our nation.

     No one is telling you to stop being Jewish, so stop telling us, and Trijicon, that we can't express our faith in Jesus Christ.  It is you that is interfering with our religious freedom to worship Jesus Christ.  Christians are not interfering with your decision to be Jewish.  No one even knew about the New Testament passages on Trijicon scopes until you made a big deal about it, for nothing.

     If you can't stand living in a Christian country that defends your Jewish faith and Israel, than you should move elsewhere.  There is a reason that Jewish people want to live in the United States; as Christians, Americans are commanded to love our neighbors, regardless of their religious beliefs.  It is because of the Christian faith of the American people that Jews, such as yourself, have found refuge among us.  We aren't evil.

     I hope that your decision to persecute Trijicon for its faith in Christ is merely based upon ignorance, and not because Satan has entered your heart.  I will pray for you.

(name withheld)


RESPONSE:

(Name withheld),

We do not persecute Christians. We seek prosecution of Christians who break the law.

In this case the US government is unwittingly establishing religion. Exclusive, Christian-based Biblical scripture stamped on weapons which are issued to soldiers and employed  to kill Muslims is a gross constitutional violation.

The United States has a religious majority which is Christian.  However, the United States is a democratic republic in which all religions may flourish but none dominate.  Therefore Christianity  has no more standing or  influence under law that Judaism or Wicca.

I'm sure you believe that Jesus is the exclusive protector of our military. But others, in the same uniform may believe that  they are protected by Siva, Rama, Buddha, Allah or Bambi the Deer. In any case none of the above seem to be doing a really good job as protector given the number of young men and women we have lost.  

You must not impose your beliefs on others irrespective of their minority status.

You may express your faith in Jesus Christ  at any time or place that does not prohibit  others form expressing theirs.  In addition, religious rights do not supercede civil rights.

You are sworn, as an American citizen, to follow the laws  of the United States. Wherein the law conflicts with religious convenience, I'm afraid the law must prevail.  The nice thing about it is that everyone else must also follow the same rules. This keeps America from becoming a religious tyranny such as we have witnessed in the mid east.  

At MRFF we work to protect your religious freedom and those of the 16,000 or so client cases we are currently handling of our young men and women in the armed forces subject to coercive and  commend centered Christian proselytizing.

In conclusion, stamping exclusive Christian scripture on military rifle scopes  is an act of religious supremacy  which can hardly be said to protect American Jewry. 

You should learn to walk a mile in non-Christian shoes.  

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

I guess you just don't have anything else to do but MAKE sure the enemy has something else and new to be upset at us for. What a bunch of idiots you have to be. Guess no one there has every been in combat or even a close call with death, everyone prays to "God" even the atheists when you think your about to die. Who is actually wasting their time to figure this out, for one thing, then complain about it. Now the Taliban or whoever wouldn't have known this and thus given something new to kill our men over. In combat EVERYONE finds religion but I guess you had to do something to justify your govt grants and then maybe get a few more young men and women killed, thanks for that, their parents and family will be so happy to know that's why they died so your company can still get free money from the govt. Why do you people even exist? I have no clue why you are around and why your company was ever founded and I damn well know it DIDN'T start with a vetern what a waste of money that could be used better to assist the brave men and women that are injuried and now need surguries and therapies which is not even close to being what they all need but we have a company, taking govt money, bitching that anyone would have even guessed it was not a serial number but reference to God. Stop the prresses and STOP the surgeries someone said the word GOD. Kiss my Irish Marine ass and if you don't like this email then praise the Lord my 32 brothers that died in Beruit 1983 Marine Barrracks will be joyful knowing I sent this as they stand at attention next to GOD himself. I am going to have to rasie a major stink about your company getting ANY monies from this govt. I just have to start the emails and see where that goes.

(name withheld)


RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

I remember lying in a rice paddy once many years ago having just been shot down in my rescue helicopter with wounded on board.  I was very scared, not so much from my wounds as being captured and having those in my care suffer the ongoing brutality of the enemy.  

We could see the enemy approaching at a distance and were sure that we were goners when the sweet sound of another helicopter from my squadron was heard and within minutes we were all safely aboard and on our way back to base.  During that entire episode I did not once think about god or religion for a second.

My agnostic friends tell me that they are just not sure whether there is a god or not.  If a god was instrumental in getting me and mine out of a jam I am grateful. I just wondered why he doesn't do it for everyone say, like the thousands of children slaughtered in Tsunamis and Earthquakes?  I'm certain their precious lives are worth far more than my worthless butt.

Maybe someone as sure as you are about the existence of god can tell us why?

Our organization was founded to assist the thousands of young men and women subject to coercive Christian proselytizing in the armed forces, some 16,000 to date. It seems that the Dominion Christian Movement is in a hurry to accelerate Armageddon.  You know the types, like Pat Robertson, who see demons, witches and devils  behind every bush.

Sadly, MRFF receives no government funding. We depend on the contributions of those who agree that we live in a secular country in which all religions may flourish but none dominate.    Conversely, the government seems to be funding blatant Christian proselytizing.   

We are against any religion that espouses supremacy over others and are as active against Extremist Islam as we are Extremist Christianity.  Gun sights with biblical scripture stamped on them are unconstitutional and are a sure sign that someone's brand of Christianity has run amok.

We seek only to correct that kind of unilateral offensive activity and restore religious balance to the armed forces.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

Instead of using Your talents to help Mankind, You waste Your time on phony non-issues that give aid and comfort to the Enemy.

Oh by the way, the Nobel Prize does'nt quite have the luster It once did.

Why don't You get a REAL job.

May a lightning bolt find You and turn You into dust !

(name withheld)


RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

I couldn't help feeling sorry for you,  what with you  having the misfortune of being born into the Twentieth  Century.

Your deep immersion into the dark side of Christianity and your feeling of supremacy were far more welcome in the 12th Century when  you could pull the fingernails out of the quivering flesh of Heretics with the government's as well as the church's blessing .

Today, however, you live in a secular Democratic Republic in which all religions may flourish but none dominate.  A country where Atheism, Judaism or Wiccan has the same standing and constitutional protections as Christianity.

This means that with your present expression of Christian Supremacy,  you will more than likely be meeting up with the lightening bolt before we do.

Our "real job" is to assist the thousands of young men and women in our armed forces subject to coercive Christian proselytizing, some 16,000 to date.  And hopefully we will be polishing up the Nobel Peace Prize and bringing  its luster once again to  America as a beacon of real religious freedom and not the hegemony of today's Dominion  Christian run church.

Religious supremacy is so ugly. Why not join us in freeing people from it?

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

Could you explain to me how being a watchdog that makes certain the government adheres to the "letter of the Constitution" includes or gives you the right to interfere with government contracts and how the military does business. The Constitution never mentions "separation of church and state". This is a quote from a man, not an official document that has been used as the excuse for attacks on the rights of Christians to be Christians.

No one forces anyone to join the military, worship God, or pray. Military forces are not comprised of people who had no choice. So to hand out Bibles, say a prayer that ends with "In Jesus' name", or defend your country with a weapon with a mounted ACOG sight making reference to scripture is not "establishing" a religion. It is also not supporting a "religion".

I am a Christian and I am a veteran. I did not feel pressured when someone prayed their Catholic prayer or to prayed whoever they worshiped. I was never forced to do anything that was against my spiritual convictions.

Let our military do their job. Let our national leaders do theirs. If you do not like what is going on with either (or both), go back into the military or go into politics and change it from within.

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

The Constitution is specific on the separation of Church and State in the First Amendment which prohibits government  from  establishing or favoring one religion above another.  This effectively separates Religion from government.

Once freely having joined the military it is reasonable to expect that you will not be subject to coercive or command centered proselytizing. 

"Christian rights" do not supercede "Civil Rights."

Allowing our military to do their job does not include participation in a Christian  Crusade.

Please rejoin American society and save the Christianity for church.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF   

 


Dear MRFF,

I saw the news item on your “outrage” about so-called secret Christian messages on riflescopes deployed with our military troops.  I just wanted to tell you that WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.  YOU get over it.  Our troops need all the spiritual assistance they can get.  This does not in any way fun afoul of the 1st amendment which guarantees each of us the freedom to worship the way we choose, it does not guarantee you the right to persecute Christians for behaving like Christians and caring about those in harm’s way. 

By the way, GO TO HELL.  I am sure that you will.

Sincerely

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

I think all the material and ordinance assistance our troops can get is very important in our war against terrorism.

Spiritualism is up to the individual and should not be passed out like pizza.

Actually, we are not a "Christian Nation."  We happen to be a secular nation, in which all religions and non-beliefs may flourish but none dominate. 

The gun sights do run afoul of the constitution. The constitution, by the way cannot be found in the Bible.

Should you, however, be condemned to Hell for communication with us devil's   spawn, I am enclosing a "Get Out Of Hell, FREE! card.

It's only good for one extraction  so you must stop being judgmental.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,   

As an American Christian I am appalled at your organization’s stance regarding the "Secret Jesus Code" on the Trijicon sights. Trijicon is known to have exceptional workmanship, and won the government contract even though these "secret codes" had been used for two decades. The claim that this is some secret code is ridiculous. It isn’t secret, it wasn't hidden; it’s just not overt. It’s not like one has to disassemble the unit and decipher a code to read it. It just happens to be one way the Trijicon family practices its faith. And I thought we lived in a country that was founded on Christian belief, with the right to religious freedom, as well as free speech.

Some claim these Bible references make this a religious war. I don't think that comes as news to those who've claimed this "jihad". To any person truly devout in ANY faith, every aspect of life is "religious". It doesn't matter that there is no Bible verse on my computer or telephone. My performance is still going to be reviewed by God. I will still strive to live and work according to His principles. And anyone shot with a "Jesus rifle" will still be just as dead.

One man even proclaimed that those little letters and numbers after the serial number will transform this war into "Our God vs. Your God". This stymies me for two reasons:

1. As a Christian I believe there is only one true God.

2. As an American, I understand there are several forms of gods worshipped in this country. Which one is supposed to go up against "Their God"?

I agree with Maj. John Redfield, spokesperson for CentCom, the U.S. military's overall command in Iraq and Afghanistan. Redfield told ABC News that the inscriptions did not violate the directive against proselytizing. "This does not constitute proselytizing because this equipment is not issued beyond the U.S. Defense Department personnel. It's not something we're giving away to the local folks."

And perhaps more to the point, why is this issue any different from U.S. money with religious inscriptions on it? The statement on the back of a US dollar bill is "In God We Trust" but I don’t see you refusing cash. But rest assured, I will not "click here" to donate, as requested on your home page. I wouldn’t want to offend your organization with my Jesus money.

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Dear (name withheld),

We are glad that you are appalled at the secret Jesus Code on the Gun Sights as an "American Christian."   Had you been, say, an English Christian, you probably would have been aghast at this blatant violation of American Constitutional Law. Many Christians around the world are.

I guess you may not realize that the  "Free Exercise" clause in the first amendment does not allow for commingling religion and government. And as you take comfort in your religious services, remember that many others of differing beliefs and non beliefs  are taking comfort in theirs.   

Christianity is not universal and Christian Supremacy is illegal.

Can you spell D-I-V-E=R-S-I-T-Y?

Rejoin America and become one of the crowd.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF 


Dear MRFF:

You are very sad people ...............you will be judged by a higher God than your monetary donation god .......

Try a real days work like the rest of us working people. Dig a ditch for $7.00 an hour ..... you might enjoy the pride and pay of real work .....

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

Please remember that there are those whose education and hard work has allowed them the privilege of dealing with people of accomplishment and recognition and whose knowledge of American Constitutional Law is impeccable.  While you are digging your ditches,  which is an honorable but less than ambitious pursuit, you must remember that America is a secular nation in which all religions and non-beliefs may flourish but none dominate. This is, of course, irrespective of any religions majority.

We are all judged by some standard and may very well face a Supreme Judge someday. But I think that  our biggest chance of acquittal  in that court will be our record of acceptance of the diverse and willingness to admit when our egos superceded scripture.

Startlingly  useful  Education exists beyond religious  indoctrination. Have you considered getting any?

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear "Mikey"

I just read a "news" article quoting you sniveling about Trijicon's exercising its American Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech to inscribe what may be a reference to a Bible verse on its sights.

You know, if you spent half as much time worrying about the venom, virulence and hatred being spewed by the Islamic terrorists who saw off the heads of innocents, who send mentally retarded children to blow themselves up in restaurants full of non-combatants and who misuse a religion to justify a jihad against the U.S. as you do trying to sabotage this country, perhaps you might accomplish something worthwhile.

Shame on you.

Shame. Shame, shame, shame.

I find your attitude appalling, unpatriotic and worse, treasonous, because you are trying to undermine our war effort by wrapping yourself in our beautiful flag. I understand that trying to use reason to reach out to those who operate totally on emotion is a waste of time. For example, even using the logic on your own Web site, that you support freedom of religion in the military, means you SHOULD SUPPORT the use of these sights by Trijicon, because THAT GIVES SOLDIERS THE FREEDOM TO EXERCISE THEIR RELIGION -- and it does NOT support any specific religion.

But you're too hypocritical to acknowledge that.

I truly want to open a wellspring of invective on you because I think it is you, not Trijicon, who is putting our brave armed forces at risk by sniveling over something like this. I suspect your true motive is not "religious freedom" -- there are NO religious freedom issues here aside from manufactured lies -- but rather an anti-war, pro-Islamic terrorism, anti-American agenda.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

  Hi (name withheld),

Sorry but you are wrong on a number of issues.

1. The biblical scripture stamped  on the Tijicon Sights are not free speech. They

    are religious speech which  is constitutionally regulated.

2. Soldiers (all armed forces,) have a right to practice their religion but within the

    boundaries established by the first amendment.  Aggressive and coercive

    Proselytizing is not  recognized  as legitimate religious practice.  General

    Order #1 Issued by General Portreus  prohibits such proselytizing to citizens

    of Iraq and Afghanistan.

3. The Biblical Scripture stamped on the gun sights are not general religious

    terms. They are unique to Christianity and cannot  be endorsed by government The sights

    are precision optics and vital to efficient operations. I wish we had more. But instead of

    supremacist scriptures perhaps something like "Greetings from the Armed Forces of

    America, protectors of world freedom" or "If this hurts, you'll know what our citizens felt

    like on 9/11!"

4. Employing weapons equipped with gun sights stamped in such an exclusive Christian 

    manner  indicate a religious cause for the War in Iraq and Afghanistan and can be

    considered a Christian Crusade  instead of a secular War on Terror.

5. It appears that you would have America become like an Islamic Republic by

    using their tactics and methods.

6. The shame here is your inability to separate your religious beliefs from

    constitutional provision.  It is you, my friend who has run afoul of the flag and

    true patriotism.

7. Your idea of religious freedom is for only Christians to have it and to employ

    exclusive and free operational control of it.  You forget that America is a

    secular nation in which all religions and non-beliefs may flourish but none

    dominate. You, sir, are a Christian Supremacist.   

8. The thousands of young Christian men and women who are MRFF clients

    seeking relief from overt  and command centered proselytizing  in the military

    and the requirement to participate in illegal  evangelizing in the mid east would

    disagree heartily with your assumptions.   So shame on you.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF

Former USAF Officer and Pilot 


Tell Mikey not to get his panties in a wad, and also he should admit that the scopes are effective as is, and take his crusade somewhere else, maybe to the ACLU, or some other left wing group.

He doesn't like the scope references??? Tough shit !!!!!

(name withheld)

3%, Oath Keeper

Politicians, like diapers, need changing regularly, and for the same reason

 

RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

It seems your attitude could use a little changing too.

Sure, the scopes are state of the art and precise optical instruments of which I wish we had more.  But having Biblical scripture stamped on a gun sight  employed on a combat weapon which is used primarily to kill Muslims is tantamount to undertaking a Christian Crusade. And as you know, our constitution prohibits such action and it is not a left-wing document. In addition, did you know that senior NCO’s and Officers are identifying weapons with these sights as  "Spiritually transformed firearms of Jesus?"

Mikey loves the scope Biblical references  but feels they are better used in authorized Christian services and worship and not illegally on weapons. Religious quotes on Tanks, Guns and Bullets do not inspire religious neutrality. 

We have gone to great lengths to identify our Terrorist friends as aggressive religious nuts. Would you have the American Armed Forces equally identified?

Mike, take a second look at this and I’m sure you will agree we need to remain religion neutral in our military actions. What did “Gott Mitt Uns”  (God is with us) do for the Nazis?

Come to militaryreligiousfreedom.org and find out what we are really all about.

 

Rick Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF

Former Air Force Officer and Pilot

 

RESPONSE:

The only thing I would suggest is that a few drops of pig blood be incorporated into the propellant that is used in combat arms.

Even tho' I spent 14 years in the USAF, I ended my 30+ year career in the Army, started out as an enlisted man, then Warrant for 14 years, then commissioned as Captain, made Major, then retired. I have no use for people that abuse the imaginary separation of church and state for justification of suppression of religion.

Your outfit is of NO interest to me.

(name withheld)


Dear MRFF,

This message is to inform you that  WE SUPPORT TRIJICON !!!!

Because of your attack, we are working to gather thousands of like minded Americans, and will work to support Trijicon in any way needed, and have chosen to purchase even more product from them thanks to your foundation and the attack article written by ABC.  Had I not read that article, I would have never known about the verses.

Thank you for bringing forward this great message of freedom!  And now we will work to exercise ours, by supporting them against your foundation!!!!

Sincerely,

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Hi (name withheld),

Frankly, you outrage is misplaced. MRFF has nothing against the gun sights as they are an integral part of an advanced weapons system. I hope we buy many more but minus the religious slogans.

Our problem is with the use of Biblical scripture, stamped into the sights which, when employed against an enemy made up exclusively of Muslims  tends to put a Crusade-like caste on their use.

As you are aware, the United States does not participate in Religious Crusades or Jihads.  It is truly a bastardization of our beautiful constitution to commingle religion with secular warfare.

Each time an enemy of Muslim persuasion is killed by a weapon equipped with these sights, it becomes a religious undertaking.  And as you are aware, weapons equipped with these sights have been termed "Spiritually transformed firearms of Jesus" by many senior officers and NCO’s.

It would be far more appropriate to have the sights stamped with “Greetings from the American Armed Forces, protectors of world democracy!”  or “If this hurts, you'll know how our citizens felt in the twin towers!”

It is our duty to protect our young men and women in the armed forces from coercive proselytizing or required participation in evangelizing to others.

Would you have their religious beliefs violated in favor of yours?

I invite you to come to militaryreligiousfreedom.org and inform yourself of our true mission and goals.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF


Dear MRFF,

I was amused by a story I saw on ABC this evening. They claimed that your organization, declaring support for “military religious freedom”, is on a mission to level the field in religious freedom among the military branches in the U.S. This is like saying the ACLU stands for “American Civil Liberties Union”, when anyone with a brain knows that it  is actually the “Anti-Christian Liberties Union”.

The Supremely socialist Supreme court stated to eat away at the  U.S. Constitution, and under the new regime, this “administration” has deleted most of the rest, in just a few months.

If when I was in Vietnam, someone came up to me and said that the President had issued “General order #1”, and took my Bible away and said that I could not do what MY God tells me to do, that being WITNESSING THE LOVE OF CHRIST, I would have seriously looked into the religious freedoms of the enemy.

Any idiot can see that telling someone you disagree with that you and your God loves them is better than killing them—as do Muslims.

With regard to the tiny numbers within the serial numbers of an AMERICAN COMPANY: It USED to be their right to place these on their products in hopes that GOD’S WORD will do as promised; PROTECT OUR MEN. Not that this is a priority today.

I only recognize the U.S. government under the Constitution, and therefore do not recognize what exists today. My friends in Israel are all very much aware of this, as I have been apologizing for this country for 16 months.

Thank you for allowing me to line your bird cage with my opinion.

(name withheld)

 

RESPONSE:

Dear (name withheld),

My name is Richard Baker and I'm a regional coordinator for MRFF.

First, let me thank you for your service to our country.

As you might guess we have been inundated with correspondence on the ABC news story regarding the Trijicon Gun Sights, fortunately most of them positive.  But still there are many, such as yours,  that deserve an answer and we want to address as many as possible. Mr. Weinstein would like to answer all of them personally but given the number, I hope you don't mind me helping him out.   

I can see by your impassioned e-mail that you are a devout Christian. I can also see that you are frightened and angry that your closely held beliefs may be under attack.   

Nothing could be further from the truth.  The MRFF does indeed assist those young men and women in the Armed Forces who report to us an inordinate  and coercive brand of Christian proselytizing, one in which they are powerless to extricate themselves. But we do not seek out these young Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, Sailors, Coastguardsmen, Reservists and National Guard for the purpose of disrupting religious belief, custom or practice.  The complaints we receive from them, over 16,000 at this time, are spontaneous. Over 96% of the complainants are non-evangelical Christian types who frankly aren't considered "Christian enough" by those charged with reprogramming them.  This gives credence to the many horror stories we have heard relative to Christian  proselytizing in the military and those who are perpetrating it which we have come to know as the "Dominion Christian Movement." It is these extremists who should be castigated for bastardizing the principals of the American Constitution and the First Amendment in particular.

I would like to address some misconceptions you have relative to the gun sight issue  and your personal experiences.

General Order #1, prohibiting proselytizing to those of Islamic faith in Iraq and Afghanistan, was issued in order that our actions in those theaters could, in no way, be misconstrued as a religious war on Islam instead of  terrorist groups who happen to be Muslim.  This was done not to stifle Christian outreach but to protect American and coalition lives. Given the world population of Muslims, including the peaceful variety who can turn quickly turn aggressive if provoked,  this would create a  world war of staggering proportions.  In addition, we really have no fight with Muslims other than those elements immediately involved in acts or terror and war against the United States.

General Order #1 does not take personal Bibles away from soldiers nor does it preclude "witnessing" of one's faith if asked to do so by a Iraqi or Afghani citizen. It is simply intended to keep those who operate outside the scope of good military practice, law and procedure from exacerbating the conflict and undertaking a mutually exclusive effort to convert Muslims.

Thousands of Bibles with Military devices  printed on them and Camouflage binders, printed by Christian organizations in America and secretly shipped to Chaplains in the war zones were intercepted and destroyed; and  rightly so.       

The gun sights are very much like the Bibles except worse. These sights have caused the weapons on which they are installed to be described by some senior NCO's and Officers as  "Spiritually transformed firearms of Jesus."  While taking aim and firing at enemy terrorists who are almost exclusively Muslim, this description leaves no doubt as to whom we are killing and for what purpose.

The gun sights have much less to do with saving our soldiers lives and much more to do with killing a religious enemy.

These sights, along with many other violations of General Order #1 have confirmed to the Islamic nations that America's armed incursions  into Iraq,  Afghanistan and Somalia are indeed a modern Christian Crusade with the objective of converting or destroying Islam.

In truth, there are those who would make the War On Terror a War on Islam. And who could blame them given the outrageous religious nature of Jihad? But we are Americans after all and as a long held policy do not emulate criminals or Jihadists.  We use our constitutional strengths to address terrorism, foreign and domestic.

As a Christian I am sure you understand that America is a secular nation, in which all religions and non-beliefs may flourish but, irrespective of  majority, none  dominate.  Emphasizing  Christian doctrine in our Armed forces, other than in appropriate worship and services, is a sure sign of our own  utter disregard for the founding principals of our democracy.  It is also illegal.   You must also remember that  bringing the word of God to Muslims while killing them at the same time brings a sadly mixed message.

True missionary works begins with the acceptance and interest of those you wish to reach.  Vengeful Religious messages on tanks, guns and bullets do not serve this purpose. As a former  Air Force Officer, pilot and Vietnam veteran, I can assure you that dropping bombs inscribed with Christian Scripture on targets that produce collateral damage will produce no converts but will have the effect of recruiting even more die-hard enemies. 

Right now, Mr. Turner, The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is the best friend of sincere Christians who have reconciled their religious belief with the call of secular patriotism and are able to function simultaneously under both.

You would serve this great nation well to use your strong faith to deter Christian extremism. We could use a strong hand at MRFF.

In Mathew 22:20, Mark, 12:17 and Luke 20:25 we find Jesus talking about separating the spiritual world from the secular and not intermingling them. In this regard it appears imperative to reprise those wise statements.

Hopefully we can convince the Trijicon Corporation to begin stamping their gun sights with more down to Earth messages such as "Greetings from the World's  Defender of Democracy"  or  "If this hurts, you'll know how our citizens felt in the twin towers!"  This would make our defense of freedom a universal one and not restricted to the religious.

Thank you for your concern  and I hope you will come to understand our  mission.

 

Richard Baker

Regional Coordinator

MRFF

PS:  Your communication will not line our bird cage but will rather be placed in an operational file for further review.