MRFF In Box
MRFF's Inbox

December 9, 2008

Hello,

This message is intended for Michael Weinstein.

Dear Mr. Weinstein,

I feel that you degrade the military service of all of our men and women by secularizing the military. When you asked Dr. MacArthur what planet he was from, I would like to ask YOU what planet you are from. I understand that there are many different religions in the military, but please do not try and make it seem as though most are not Christian. Most people in the military, just like most people in the country, are at least nominally Christian. For your statistic about how 3/4 of the people who came to you were Protestant, and 1/4 was whatever else, what proportion were those to the rest of the general population at the Pentagon? Who the hell are you to step in the way of the beliefs of those who are defending you? Do you think that this is your divine right to destroy the nation? I hope that you think long and hard about the road that you have chosen by trying to actively secularize this nation, when that was NOT the intention of the founding fathers. Where in the Constitution, not your little legal technicalities, is this, that those in uniform cannot proselytize? Church and state may come together at times, like they have without attack until recently from those who seek to turn this nation into a secular nightmare. We conservatives are not through just yet. Where did you go to law school? Uncle Joe's Online 30 Minute Law Course?

Respectfully,

[name withheld]


Response from MRFF Chapter President Richard Baker
December 10, 2008

Dear [withheld],

I have read your message to Mr. Weinstein. I hope you don't mind me butting in here but as a MRFF Chapter President I hope to offer you some insight about us that you might not yet possess.

You are correct that a sizeable number of armed forces members identify themselves as Christians. This reflects the percentage breakdown of the US Population. Some like to put "Catholic" on their tags, others, Protestant, and yet others LDS, etc.

But these identifications do not cover the entire Christian military population effectively. Among the large Christian population are those who identify as "Evangelicals," of which a smaller but highly active group of evangelicals are rather aggressive in carrying out what they call the "Great Commission," which is ostensibly the command they have received from God to carry his word worldwide and not being too gentle about it.

This group has been identified as "Pre-Millennial Reconstructionist's" or the more familiar term, "Dominion Christian."

These folks have been involved in many complaints to the MRFF for their overt and coercive proselytizing and rather horrid treatment of our young men and women at military bases worldwide including combat zones. Even worse, they are well entrenched in our service academies which has set off several high level government investigations. I'm sure you know of whom I speak, OCF, MCF, Campus Crusade Military Mission, Focus on the Family and others.

More than 10,000 client cases are under review by the MRFF and the bulk of them are, in fact, self identified Christians who do not subscribe to militant Christianity.

It is important for you to know that we need not attempt to secularize the military, as it has been a secular institution as long as the United States has been in business.

Now there's no doubt there are a lot of religious folks in America but a careful read of the U.S. Constitution will also inform you that America is a secular nation in which all religions may flourish but none dominate. We do hear the "Christian Nation" thing bandied about occasionally but attribute that to the misinformed. A plethora of Supreme Court decisions and rulings are available to confirm that.

A thorough search of all the articles and amendments contained in our magnificent constitution contain not one mention of Jesus Christ, angels, horned demons, virgin mothers or Beelzebub. Therefore it is safe to conclude that the constitution is also a secular document.

You mentioned: "Who the hell are you to step in the way of the beliefs of those who are defending you?" Well we don't stand in the way of their beliefs Mr [withheld], we stand only between their unlawful coercive proselytizing and our young Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, Marines, Coast Guard, Reserves, National Guard and Veterans. Rank and religious belief do not trump constitutional law.

The Uniform Code of military Justice allows for private discussion of religion in the ranks. It prohibits, however, the use of organized command control structure to require subordinates to attend religious ceremony, prayer session, or religious formation such as has been the case in a growing number of situations.

Your characterization of America being turned into a "secular nightmare" would be inaccurate for as I have stated, America is already secular nation. I do agree with you, however, that it is currently a nightmare but I would attribute that to a couple of unnecessary wars, a depression and a Christian movement that will soon make the Taliban look like Boy Scouts.

Mr. Weinstein's law education was slightly longer than 30 minutes and his ten year term in the USAF Judge Advocates Office, his stint as White House Counsel to President Reagan and position as General Counsel to H. Ross Perot's business empire should qualify him to handle the rather uncomplicated cases of illegal Christian proselytizing.

It's time to face reality. You have become a citizen of some supernatural plane of existence and have forfeited the benefit of any logical response from the MRFF. I only take the time to do this as I do believe in educating those who seem to have lost their way in the real world.

Please know that it is those of your ilk by far, that do Christianity a disservice by making it into the current grotesque caricature of it's original benevolent intent.

Richard Baker
Colorado Springs Chapter President
Military Religious Freedom Foundation.


Response from another MRFF supporter
December 11, 2008

Dear [withheld],

Thanks for your taking the time to write Mr. Weinstein and address your concerns about MRFF.

I recently received the appended copy of your message. Mr. Weinstein does his level best to answer as much correspondence personally as he can, but his time is very limited by his heavy schedule. I believe you have already heard from Mr. Baker on this matter, but I asked Mr. Weinstein's permission to respond to your concerns, to which he graciously acceded. I will attempt to address the concerns and issues raised in your letter, as I believe that if you understand the entire situation and background, you may have quite a different attitude toward Mr. Weinstein and the MRFF. However, there may still be some areas on which we may have to "agree to disagree."

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is [withheld], and I served in the US Marines, a family tradition going back to at least WW I, where my great-uncle was wounded. My father was a Marine in the Pacific in WWII (also WIA). One of my uncles was captured on Corregidor (also WIA) and was a Japanese POW for the duration. After his recuperation, he was among those who were mobilized by General MacArthur for Korea. He landed at Inchon, and later fought at the famed Chosin Reservoir under the famed Marine Chesty Puller, along with another of my uncles. Towards the end of his long career, he served in Vietnam during the early advisory period. My younger brother served during the Reagan era, and was a mmber of the MSG at NSB Bangor (WA). My first wife also served before and during Gulf I. My family members have also fought in every major war this country has engaged in since the Revolution. During the course of my own service, I had the honor of being engaged in several of the major operations in Vietnam (1967-68), including close personal ground combat at Khe Sanh, and in the Hue-Phu Bai area. I later served in various infantry units incl. E 2/2, M 3/9, and as MSG at CINCLNTFLT, and in Reconnaissance (1st and 3rd Battalions) in capacities up to and including platoon commander.

I give you this information to help you to understand my own and my family's military background, which is fairly extensive.

Far from feeling "degraded" by Mr. Weinstein's work, I am very grateful for him and the MRFF. Though baptized and raised a Catholic, I left the church in my mid-teens, and am an agnostic, but I feel every person should be free to believe as he or she chooses, as long as they don't intrude their beliefs on others who don't wish to discuss it, especially during duty hours.

Now I'd like to acquaint you with Mr. Weinstein's military, political, and business backgrounds, since you seem to be unfamiliar with them.

He and his family have a distinguished U.S. military history spanning three generations of military academy graduates and over 130 years of combined active duty military service, stemming from World War I to the current Global War on Terror.

Mr. Weinstein's father was a distinguished graduate of the United States Naval Academy.
Mr. Weinstein himself was a 1977 Honor Graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. He has been married for 31 years to his wife, Bonnie, and they have two sons and one daughter. His oldest son and daughter-in-law are 2004 Air Force Academy graduates, and his youngest son also graduated from the Academy (Class of 2007). He was the sixth member of the Weinstein family to attend the Academy.

You also expressed some interest in his legal qualifications - Mr. Weinstein spent 10 years in the Air Force as a Judge Advocate General (JAG) military attorney, serving as both a prosecutor and criminal defense attorney.

A registered Republican, he also spent over three years in the West Wing of the Reagan Administration as a legal counsel to the White House. In his final position there, Mr. Weinstein was named the Committee Management Officer of the much-publicized Iran-Contra Investigation in his capacity as Assistant General Counsel of The White House Office of Administration, Executive Office of the President of the United States.

He also held positions in corporate America as a senior executive businessman and attorney. After stints at prominent law firms in New York City and Washington D.C., he served as the first General Counsel to Texas billionaire and two-time Presidential candidate H. Ross Perot and Perot Systems Corporation. He left Mr. Perot's employ in 2006 to focus his full-time attention on the nonprofit foundation he founded - The Military Religious Freedom Foundation - which he set up in response to his growing awareness of serious systemic problems involving freedom of conscience in the military.

Mr. Weinstein was named one of the 50 most influential Jews in America by the Forward, one of the nation’s preeminent Jewish publications, and has also received nomination for the JFK’s Profile in Courage Award and received the Buzzflash Wings of Justice Award.

Mr. Weinstein is Jewish. His wife is a convert to that faith, and his family includes both observant Jews and Christians. Mr. Weinstein is not opposed to religion - he is opposed to people in the service being force-fed religion against their will by people in positions of power over them who should ostensibly be looking out for them.

You expressed unhappiness with Mr. Weinstein's remarks to Mr. McArthur. I know Mr. Weinstein can seem quite blunt on occasion. However, when one understands the entire background, his attitude becomes more understandable.

When he first started this campaign, Mr. Weinstein thought that all he need do was to call official attention to the problems, and they would be addressed by the system that he had so long supported and been a part of. However, since setting up MRFF and campaigning for the Constitutional right of service members to freedom of conscience, Mr. Weinstein has found the problems to be far deeper and more embedded than he had ever imagined, and that the personnel and officials responsible for dealing with the issues were actually part of the problem - up to and including flag officers and Inspector Generals.

In addition, he and his family have received numerous vitriolic threats from people (who call themselves "Christians") on an almost daily basis. These include death and dismemberment (often in obscene ways), threats to rape and kill his wife, etc. They have also had their home vandalized and daubed with feces, painted with swastikas and other such hate symbols, had their tires slashed, and in general been subjected to a campaign of hate and vitriol hardly to be imagined in this day and age. However, instead of being cowed by this hatred, he has been galvanized by it. Each vicious and hateful threat and act makes him more resolute. He has resolutely sacrificed his personal safety, security, peace of mind and fortune (and that of his family) to fight for the Constitution and the right of ALL people of faith (or no faith) to be free to believe as they please.

MRFF was not founded to persecute Christians or force them to be other than what they choose to be - quite the opposite - it was founded to protect service personnel of all beliefs from being persecuted for their beliefs, or forced to attend or participate in specific programs contrary to their conscience and in clear and often flagrant violation of military regulation, Federal law, and the Constitution. When Christian service members come to MRFF with a problem, they are given the same attention and assistance as any other person.

Most of the problems MRFF have been addressing have come from a very specific source - i.e., the radical far-right and extremely militant wing of the Christian evangelical movement, especially the Dominionist / Reconstructionist elements (led by Gary North and the late RJ Rushdoony, among others), who have slowly infiltrated the military and the government for years. These groups openly avow the take-over of the United States, the disestablishment of the Republic and all forms of democracy, and the establishment of a theocracy governed by their warped vision of an Old Testament form of Sharia on steroids.

If you are not familiar with these movements, I urge you to study them and their aims and goals, which, like Hitler's in Mein Kampf, have been clearly stated. I hasten to add these are not just a few whacked-out, wild-eyed looney-tunes Elmer Gantrys - there are many of them, and they have many "fellow-travelers" some knowing, some merely dupes. Many are educated, polished, and sophisticated, and they operate in many high circles all over the US and indeed the world. They have a clear agenda, and are following a game plan to arrive at their ultimate goal.

Dominionists / Reconstructionists encompass a number of essentially fundamentalist-extremist religious groups, whose collective agenda includes ultimately gaining control of the US by exploiting the democratic process, and installing a theocracy based on their interpretation of "God's law" cognate with Muslim Sharia. Essentially, they are an "American Taliban" as they have been called elsewhere.

These people are not in favor of democracy OR a Republic. In fact, they have often written that democracy and Christianity are incompatible. They are theocratic totalitarians who seek to take political control of first the US, and then the world. In the words of one of their late leaders, RJ Rushdoony, they plan to "...lead them to Jesus - in chains, if necessary."

The goal is to have their interpretation of the Bible rule every aspect of life. Rushdoony believes democracy is a "heresy", and admonished "Christians" that in creating God's kingdom on Earth, they must remember that "a monarchy is not a democracy." Rushdoony claimed "Democracy is the great love of the failures and cowards of life." The pursuit of total dominion was described in the November 1994 issue of Rushdoony's newsletter Chalcedon Report as "preparing the path for the Kingdom."

They want to establish an Old Testament-based theocracy and law that would include public stoning, burning at the stake, or death by the sword of "transgressors." Rushdoony listed eighteen "capital crimes", including blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, promiscuity, incorrigible delinquency, homosexuality, and (for women only, of course) unchastity before marriage. Their theology dictates that, among other things, women may not wear red dresses; all kitchens be Kosher; slavery be allowed; and women and children become once again chattel property.

Punishment for non-capital crimes includes whipping and / or indentured servitude or slavery. Prisons would only be temporary holding tanks while prisoners awaited sentencing.

Legal systems would be forced to comply with the Reconstructionist interpretation of Old Testament Biblical Law. Rushdoony's Chalcedon organization helped establish a radical right legal organization, The Rutherford Institute, to promote, through the courts, the Religious Radical Right agenda.

They also plan to "convert" (by force, if necessary) or "eliminate" all who refuse to accept their warped version of Christianity. In other words, as they have been so aptly described elsewhere, they are an American Taliban, practicing a "biblical" form of Sharia.

Their "fellow travelers" extend to public officials, as mentioned. Gov. Huckabee (in many other respects an admirable man) stated publicly during his recent campaign that he would find it "easier to re-write the Constitution to reflect God's Law" rather than the other way around. Even given the fact that he is a former minister, the idea that a man aspiring to the highest office in the land, who would have taken a solemn oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, was willing to "re-write" it in such a way as to completely overturn it shocked me to my core.

They have slowly been infiltrating government, the military, and other areas of power for over fifty years. These far right-wing zealots are now deeply embedded in all branches of the government and the military, and have worked or schemed their way into positions of great authority. They are now in positions of power at all levels, especially since the advent of the Bush regime.

The difficulty is that even many more mainstream Christians who are associated with them (people such as I presume you may be) are totally unaware of what is going on - not just in this matter but in many areas. Many Christians (even those in some "stealth" Dominionist sects who are not in the inner circles) don't know what is really afoot unless they achieve the "inner sanctum."

There are a number of these subversive "religious" elements which have been at work for many years - one (known at times as "The Family") has become extremely powerful internationally (while almost unknown to the public) was founded by a Norwegian immigrant in 1935. Abraham Vereide was an anti-union, anti-communist evangelist preacher from Seattle (in those days a conservative bastion). The now common "prayer breakfasts" were founded by him. Here is the story - it is long but WELL worth the read if you believe (as I do) that "forewarned is forearmed."

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

Even in my day, "prayer breakfasts" were known as a good thing for promotion and preferment in some units.

As to the "proselytization" you refer to - it is ILLEGAL to do so in uniform, and especially to command your subordinates to do so, according to the UCMJ and other military regulations. I might add that your position that it is "okay" because a majority of the personnel are Christians is also untenable.

First, there are people of ALL faiths and NO faith in the service, and even among Christians, there are scores or even hundreds of splinter sects or beliefs which have many different interpretations of the Bible and what Christian belief should be - many of these are mutually incompatible even with other Christian sects. However, they all have rights under the Constitution, and these include the right to believe (or not believe) as they please.

However, a group of ultra-radical, far-right militant evangelicals and their fellow-travelers are trying to force THEIR narrow brand of belief on others - even other Christians who don't meet THEIR standards (which surprisingly might include YOU!)

They, like you, argue based on the supposed fact that they are a "majority" in the US. (Which doesn't mean anything anyway, according to our Constitution, which guarantees freedom of conscience.)

Now, put the shoe on the other foot - if 86% of the country were Muslims, Jews, atheists, Wiccans, or whatever, (even another "Christian" group your sect disagreed with), and were trying to cram THEIR form of religion (or a-religion) down YOUR throat, would you or these other Christians be OK with "sitting down and shutting up" as some right-wing Christians suggest we do? No. They would (rightly!) cite their Constitutional rights to practice and believe in their faith.

We are not talking about "gentle persuasion" here - we are talking about in-your-face, aggressive, and highly obnoxious tactics by highly disciplined and well-organized hard corps of aggressive Reconstructionist / Dominionist radical right "ministers" and officers and SNCOs to proselytize not only the "unchurched" and other non-Christians, but even members of less radical, mainstream Christian sects. They have used organized verbal and even physical harassment, issuing of illegal orders and threats (including in some cases death threats!), vindictive "dirty" assignments to those who don't knuckle under (including in combat zones, assignment to potentially deadly missions), withholding promotions or awards, etc. - much of it from SNCOs and officers, the people charged with upholding the rights of their troops and responsible for the maintenance of good discipline and morale.

The govt. - both parties - seem for the most part to be either afraid of these people or cooperating willingly with them either for ideological or political reasons.

If these people gain ultimate power, the non-religious of any description will of course be first to be dealt with, one way or the other - atheists, agnostics, etc. Then the non-Christian religious such as Muslims, Buddhists, etc. I imagine the Jews would be next, and then, of course, their fellow travelers and dupes in coalition organizations that support their ends, will soon find themselves the next targets. Christians who are not of the "right" type - i.e., those who don't adhere to the American Taliban's "biblical" Sharia - will be next to be carted off to the public stoning or burning sites - or merely mass-murdered by Dominionist storm-troopers.

They now have "Christian" versions of the extremely violent video game genre. One such was designed and released by a company headed by Troy Lyndon, reportedly a close associate of Rick Warren, leader of the "mega-church" at Saddleback. The game is set in a post-Millenial New York in which part of your "duties" as a member of the "good guys" (called the "Christian Tribulation Forces") are to either convert or kill non-Christian people, who are all considered forces of the "Anti-Christ's Global Peacekeeping Force" (obviously the UN). See: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hatevgame.htm for details. It has apparently also gotten support and good reviews by Dr. Dobson's group, Focus on the Family (who normally rail against vid game violence) and other purportedly "Christian" groups.

I have also seen some web-based "games" of this nature, and other sites - one specifically by and for US Special Forces and SEAL members, quite a number of whom are also involved in this cult - which encourages them to be preparing to murder "unbelievers."

I could go on at great length, but it would take longer than I have to detail everything that is already going on behind the scenes. It boggles the imagination.

The MRFF was founded to counteract these people - and to force the military and the government to enforce the Constitutional boundaries established by the Founders, and protect people of ALL faiths or no faith - including Christians whose sect or personal beliefs don't meet the "standards" of ultra-radical evangelicals (maybe even you) - from being harassed by these far right-wing radical sects. It is also trying to stop the erosion of our Constitution and infiltration of our armed forces, judiciary, and legislative bodies by these same Dominionists, who view this as an important step to their eventual takeover.

Now to your remarks on the "secularization" of the military and country. I am afraid that you, like many of your peers, labor under a misapprehension of both the nature of the Constitution and the intent of the Founders.

The American Republic was a product of a broad new flowering of thought among the intellectual elite of European philosophers from about the middle of the 17th century to the early 19th century known as the "Age of Enlightenment" (sometimes included with its early 17th century predecessor, the "Age of Reason"). Its principles were based on reason and intellect instead of illogic, irrationality, and superstition, and sought to replace both the aristocracy and established churches, which were viewed by them as reactionary and oppressive. Many of these philosophers were not religious at all.

In America, many of the men who became the Founders were followers of this movement. Though most were nominally raised as Christians of one sect or another, others, such as Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, and Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense, The Age of Reason, and Rights of Man (among others) were Deists at best, eschewing the "miraculous" elements of mainstream religion. Many (including Washington) were Masons, who, while publicly announcing belief in a higher power, were definitely not mainstream Christians.

They were adamant that America should not repeat the mistakes of Europe as regards religion. Indeed, some of the most ardent supporters of the concept of no established religion were themselves ministers, particularly the Presbyterians, who had suffered under the Established Church (Anglican) in the UK for many years. They had seen the bitterness and divisiveness caused by the religious wars in Europe and wanted no part of them from the first.

They therefore set this into law in the Constitution and its amendments. The "No Establishment" and "No religious test" clauses are, (or should be) crystal clear. In case you are unfamiliar with or have forgotten these clauses, I quote the relevant aspects here:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."
(1st Amendment, US Constitution)

". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article VI, Section III, US Constitution)

That clearly means what it says - that NO religion is or shall be preferred or made THE state religion over any other (and that includes Christianity), but that free exercise of ALL religions (including Judaism, Islam, and any others, or NO others) shall not be prohibited. That means we all have freedom of conscience - you, me, the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Mormons, Culdees, Amish, Branch Davidians (Oops! Not them, I guess - they were wiped out by a benevolent govt.), Pagans, Wiccans, Flying Spaghetti Monster Pastafarians, or any other religion, creed, or cult - or NO religion - have equal rights to practice (or not) as they choose.

Here are some further quotes to further assist you in understanding the Founders' intent:

Thomas Jefferson, the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, and who was heavily involved with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, was a Deist with a belief in the moral teachings (though not the divinity or miracles) of Jesus. Writing in his autobiography about the passage of the Bill Establishing Religious Freedom in his home state of VA, he said:

"...a singular proposition proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word 'Jesus Christ,' so that it should read 'a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion,' the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination."

James Madison expressed a similar sentiment when describing the same incident.

Jefferson commented a good deal on religion. Here are a handful of his quotes which should serve to elucidate the case;

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." - Notes on Virginia, 1782

"They [clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
- letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802 (My underlining.)

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." - to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."

- letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
- letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." - letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

"As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us."
- letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819

"I can never join [John] Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did."
- letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."
-Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
- letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason;

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
(Abraham Lincoln's legal partner William Herndon wrote that Lincoln wrote a defense of Paine's Deism, but that his friend Samuel Hill burned it to save Lincoln's political career from the Fundamentalist mob of that period.)

In 1797 America made a treaty with the Muslim state of Tripoli (in the present state of Libya), declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to the Muslim ruler of Tripoli was written under Washington's presidency, approved by the Senate, and signed by President John Adams.

MRFF is opposing the attempt by elements of a far-right, anti-democratic, group who call themselves "Christians" to impose not only their beliefs but their will on the members of the US Armed Forces, as well as elected and appointed officials, and ultimately upon the nation and the world - and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what their ultimate goals are, especially since they have clearly stated them.

I hope this helps clarify your understanding of the MRFF and Mr. Weinstein's goals. He is not out to destroy or persecute Christians or anyone else - merely to fulfill the oath he and the rest of us took when entering service to "...uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." We took that oath seriously, and I wrote my country a blank check on my life for it. Not for the "flag" not for a politician, and most definitely not for some mythology - but to support the best work ever produced by imperfect humans in an imperfect world - to the death, if the need arises. I still take that oath very seriously - as I do any threats to that country or that document, whether by foreign fighters or terrorists, or domestic theocrats. If the latter really want to live in a theocracy replete with Bronze Age laws and punishments - let them move to the best example of that in the modern world - Iran. They will only establish it here over my dead body.

Very Sincerely,

[name withheld]
USMC (Ret.)


The original detractor responds
December 11, 2008

I appreciate your response, and I understand your anger. It was not right for me to email you out of the blue and in such a boisterous manner. However, I am concerned that your organization is not the healthiest thing for our nation right now. We do not need more division, we need more unification, and this will not come if lawyers continue to try and rip away at what most people believe. Here are some of my reasons why I cannot agree with you and if you want, I will never bug you again, at least by obnoxious email.

First off, I don't think that there is any comparison between race and religion. Secularists are not a racial minority, where is the logic in that? Secularists are a minority, but a self-proclaimed minority. It is not absolutely necessary to scream that from the rooftops.

Second, I do not think that those officers are turning America into a Christian nation, like someone with bad grammer on the Internet would want to occur.

Third, I think that your organization is trying to secularize the military and trying to rewrite and rework the entire way our country has functioned, which is not the way it has historically functioned. For example, there is a relief of Moses in the Supreme Court Building. There is also "In God We Trust" on our money. Other than that, we also have In God We Trust in the House of Representatives.

Fourth, I do not think that officers practicing their beliefs in their offices are establishing religion. They are practicing their first amendment right, which extends to their offices, even if it is a governmental position. They are not teaching children the Bible in public schools, they are merely integrating their faith with their work, which is part of Christianity, and I do not care if you are an evangelical, a Roman Catholic, or a Mormon. All of them will admit this.

Sir, I understand your concern that people are being targeted by super Jesus freaks who want to turn America into a Baptist church. That is not what I want. Theocracy would be complete catastrophe. Yet a healthy acknowledgement of God in society is necessary, which I think the people you represent would agree with.

I am deeply sorry for my rant, it will not happen again. I wish you the best, and hope that you are able to be fruitful in all of your pursuits.

[name withheld]


A final reply from MRFF President and Founder Mikey Weinstein
December 11, 2008

...........apology accepted, [withheld].....thank you........I think you might agree with me that this type of particularly passionate discourse does not lend itself well to e-mail, sir......your views and ours are quite diametrically opposed on a plethora of levels........the chasm between us is most certainly of Jovian magnitude.........in specific point of fact, we are not even operating in the same universe of human thought let alone locus of American history et al........my family and I and our nonprofit, charitable organization receive many grotesque threats from those who "disagree with us".......they come around-the-clock.....we always wonder, as do the authorities, if those who baldly erupt at us may be behind those threats........we know that we can NOT be "too careful"........we at MRFF all know well that Constitutional political activism is lonely, dangerous and expensive.....indeed, as Gandhi said, "first they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.."...............in the past hard fought years, MRFF has weathered the "ignore" and "ridicule". stages of Gandhi's prophetic statement.....now we fight........particularly in Federal Court...........perhaps, [withheld], we can meet some time and exchange thoughts face to face over a nice meal somewhere.......?!..........but, sir, when you viciously attack in ad hominem fashion, quite literally out of the blue, we WILL defend ourselves aggressively............as we aggressively defend the Constitutional rights of the 10,400 (and rapidly growing) U.S. armed forces members who come to us as spiritual rape victims of unconstitutional fundamentalist Christian predators who outrank them.........and, yes, [withheld], INCREDIBLY 96% of that number of MRFF clients are CHRISTIANS themselves!!..........they're just being told that they're "not Christian enough"........plz THINK about that, [withheld]........seriously!!...............my family (half Jewish and half Christian) has 3 consecutive generations of military Academy graduates, including myself and my 2 sons and daughter-in-law, my dad and brother-in-law.....we have well over 130 combined years of active duty military service in every major combat engagement this wonderful country's been in from WW1 to the present so-called Global War on Terror......my beloved nephew just got back a few weeks ago from his 2nd combat tour in Iraq as a USMC Platoon Sgt.......he earned a chestful of medals.........we are a mostly Republican (I'm a registered Repub.), conservative, military family...................and yet it is WE who are leading this terrible fight.....it is NOT about "secularizing" America or its military, [withheld]!!.........it IS about stopping an internal nat'l security threat to this country, INTERNALLY, as serious and challenging in magnitude as that threat facing us EXTERNALLY by radical fundamentalist, Islamic, Wahhabi-fueled terrorists........YOU ARE OFF BASE....YOU ARE WRONG.....plz do your homework next time..........look, I actually do this for a LIVING!!....plz consider going to our website (www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org) and buying and reading my book, "With God On Our Side".....and maybe buying the wonderful and highly acclaimed documentary film available which champions our cause, "Constantine's Sword".........it's important, good sir, to be careful, very careful, BEFORE you denigrate people and organizations.........it is terribly hard to squeeze toothpaste back into the tube...........I wish you well............

Respectfully, your fellow American citizen,

Mikey Weinstein
President and Founder
Military Religious Freedom Foundation


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