“Bible Study”/Marine Combat Training
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This post was created on the previous version of the MRFF website, and may not be fully accessible to users of assistive technology. If you need help accessing this content, please reach out via email.Dear MRFF:
I recently attended Marine Combat Training at Camp Pendleton, and while I am used to some religious bias in the military (a Christian prayer before most formal events – graduations, birthday ball, etc) I felt that this period of training was especially biased and discriminatory.
The first incident was during what was supposed to be a First Sergeant briefing which quickly turned into his own political and religious rant where he argued against homosexuality, evolution, and other such hot topics. He then went on to say that Marines can’t form their own morals and need to find them from religion. He then said he would be holding a Bible study immediately after and those that wanted to stay he would give a copy of his book “Christian Truth and Its Defense – For Marines” http://www.christiantruthanditsdefense.org/ I assumed that those that did not want to listen to it would return to their barracks, but instead we had to stand in front of the bleachers in formation at parade rest for the entirety of the bible study period.
A later incident that I’d like to address was during what was supposed to be a “Combat Leadership” class from a retired Marine who has a hall named after him in the 52 area, he again turned the subject to religion using the quote “There are no atheists in fighting holes” and discussing how Marines need religion. He then had everyone come up front and gave every Marine a dog tag with a biblical quote.
(name, rank, combat unit and military installation withheld)
Cell: # withheld)
…call me asap plz, (U.S. Marine’s Name Withheld)!!….THX for reaching out, BRO!!……THIS IS FRICKIN’ OUTRAGEOUS!!!…….best, Mikey Weinstein….Pres. and Founder, MRFF
Dear Mikey:
Wow, I am impressed I got such a prompt response and from the President and Founder, none-the-less.
I wasn’t even going to say anything to anyone about it until I saw an article somewhere about a soldier who had to stay in the barracks and clean because he chose not to go to a Christian concert and thought “That’s shockingly similar to what just happened to me.”
I’m glad I wrote you now, and I hope it makes some small difference in the discriminatory policies that are being practiced in many parts of our military and in complete disregard of our constitution. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, JFK, etc all strongly argued for the separation of church and state and we must fight to maintain that.
(name, rank, combat unit and military installation withheld)
Cell: # withheld
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After completing MCT (Marine Combat Training) in early 2001, the SOI Bn CO LtCol regaled the young marines (and me since I wasn’t so young) with tales of life in the Corps and the brotherhood we had joined and were taking our nascent steps towards. We had spent (most of) the last 17 days in the field learning the absolute basics of military tactics. After which we had the opportunity to take a shower for the first time in 2 weeks and clean the grime and mud off.
At the end of the LtCol’s speech he informed the Marines they now had the duty to clean the showers we had just used because a good Marine always leaves equipment and quarters in as good a condition as the way he found them. However, an offer was made. If any Marines wanted to stay and listen to the LtCol he would tell them the truth of Creationism and debunk the lies of Evolution using a treatise he had written and self-published and of which he had available copies for the Marines to take with them in lieu of cleaning the showers.
I was stunned. I left with the group assigned to clean the mud coated showers and befouled shitters. My reasons were partially because I don’t shirk duty but mainly because I was upset over rank ignorance being forced down the mouths of tired and impressionable young men by a Marine in a position of Authority.
Thinking about the situation later I realized I should have stayed and grabbed a copy.
Oohrah Marine. You’re not alone. Please, I want you to know that. I am a former Marine and an OIF veteran. It’s also important for you to know that though I underwent some religious proselytizing from those who outranked me, I also served with many men and women for whom the rights regarding matters of conscience of all Marines were valued. Many went out of their way to make sure that my spiritual needs were fulfilled and that I didn’t have religion inflicted upon me. These men and women must be mentioned because they can end up as the unsung heroes in this fight. The actions of this First Sergeant are a slap in the face of the honorable men and women I knew.
Here’s a story that you might like. When my unit got called up to deploy, I mentioned that my dog-tags might be a personal liability. I was heading into a combat zone in the Middle East and my dog-tags stated my religion as “Jewish–Reform”. Very quickly, three staff NCOs took the matter seriously and by the end of the next day I had a second set of tags that said “No Religious Preference”. Needless to say to some, I got them out of practicality. I felt no need to be in more danger in the unlikely, but terrifying, event of capture. Fortunately, they were unnecessary.
Thank you for having the courage to speak up. With more like you, our country — our citizenry — has less to fear.
Peter Cohen
I sat through that same brief at MCT with that same 1stSgt in 2002. I still have that book because i was so dumbfounded by the whole experience. I can’t believe this is still going on. We need to get the word out about MRFF. We don’t have to put up with this nonsense.
While I was moving I found 1st Sgt. Bishop’s book. I attended ITB in 2005 and got the speech. I don’t really remember much except that he was an engaging speaker.
But I’ve grown up since then and decided to look him up and see if he still got time to spew his propaganda.
Apparently so…
Wow.. I too decided to Google this guy and was happy this came up but I also found this little tidbit.. look how proud he is about evangelizing to Marines.
“David believes that in order for the military to be successful as an institution, and to win in battle, soldiers must have what we might call an absolute standard of values – a belief that is at odds with the society around us. To date he has taught Core Values classes from the Battle History of the Marine Corps to over 250,000 Marines.
David majored in Biblical studies at Wayland Baptist University, Liberty University & has a Bachelors of Science Degree from the State University of New York. He has been an instructor for Evantell, an association committed to clarity in evangelism traveling widely as a speaker. He has an evangelistic ministry presenting the Gospel message and the overwhelming evidence for the Christian faith to hundreds of servicemen each month on a major military base (over 175,000 U.S. Marines). David has written a book, “Christian Truth and Its Defense for U.S. Marines” that has found its way into Iraq and Afghanistan, and is in the hands of thousands of servicemen.”
http://www.figionline.com/meetings/2014_meetings/meeting_2014-02-27_Bishop.html
How has no one stopped this yet?
I attended MCT in October of 2001, and regretfully had the misfortune of 1stSgt Bishop.
The entire unit (Battalion I think, it has been 15 years after all) was gathered around on the grinder and given a copy of this book. Then they subjected us to a lengthy lecture on Christian values and rules and why it is moral to kill our enemies, etc. It also involved rules that he “reasoned” from the Bible that prove we are forgiven for just about anything we do regardless as long as we ask for it.
Yeah, I’ll be honest when I say that it seemed to elude towards killing people. Don’t get me wrong, Marines can be called forth to fight and kill. But we do not need religious reasons to say that it’s ok to just murder people (really seemed to elude to more then just combat), and be forgiven.
I walked out of that wondering wtf.
Previously during bootcamp, I was ordered to attend church. I tried to get out of it, but ended up attending a different one each week until the Mormons gave me Donuts and then I chilled there until graduation. I figured it was a bootcamp thing and just tried to ignore it.
Then at MCT this happened, and it’s never seemed right…
THEN in Iraq in 2007, a chaplain spent an entire convoy in Al Anbar trying to convert me as I puked in my Kevlar.
Now I’m still serving, I love serving, but thankfully religious oppression of any type seems on its way out. I look back on my early days all sorts of pissed off, but I now try and shield my own from this nonsense.
I’ll never forget the dude who shoved his religious nonsense down my throat.
I do not ask for monuments to be torn down, or 10 commandments to be removed…All I ask is for the freedom to not believe if I so desire.
Bill Duncan