Detractor E-mail
You people are idiots. You may be offended by the Bible now but one day soon you will wish you would have passed them out instead of having them removed.
(name withheld)
Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member James Currie
Dear (name withheld):
I have been asked by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) to respond to your recent email. It is really hard to know where to begin, as the premise of your letter—that the supporters of MRFF and religious freedom for all those who put on the uniform to defend our country against all enemies, foreign and domestic, are “offended by the Bible”–is really off-base The reality is that many of us who support MRFF and its mission have read the Bible quite thoroughly, in whatever version we have embraced, Old or New Testament, Christian Bible or Jewish. Few of us are “offended” by it. We just think it should remain in the churches, synagogues, and other places of worship where it belongs, and not placed where it violates the First Amendment to the US Constitution. I would submit to you, (name withheld), that among the enemies against whom military personnel are pledged to defend our great country are those narrow-minded, ignorant-of-the-Constitution religious fanatics who would change our country and set up a theocracy. They would do this, of course, only if they alone were allowed to decide which religious doctrine ruled the country. Perhaps they would be fundamental Christian, perhaps they would be Muslim; maybe Orthodox Jews could take over and prescribe that everyone had to obey Jewish dietary and other religious laws. Who knows what religious group would run the country if we were a theocracy, or maybe we could rotate the religious leadership and doctrines on a monthly or yearly basis. Wouldn’t that be wonderful?
We don’t have to speculate about what that would do to our country, because we have had hundreds of years of history which demonstrates to us just what would happen to us and our country if one religious group or another were allowed to dictate everyone’s religious beliefs. Establishment of a theocracy would mean the end of the country we enjoy today.
The men who wrote our First Amendment, which guarantees so many freedoms to us, were absolute geniuses. They had seen what religious sectarian strife had done to Europe, from which most of them or their ancestors had immigrated, and they wanted none of it. They wanted to shield our country from such conflict by separating government and religion, setting up a barrier—a wall, even—between church and state. Thomas Jefferson, author of the Statute for Virginia of Religious Freedom, perhaps expressed it best in an 1802 letter he sent to the Baptists of Danbury, CT. Here’s what Jefferson wrote:
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people [that is, the First Amendment] which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”
Do you get this, (name withheld)? President Jefferson referenced the “wall of separation” that the First Amendment erected between church and state, and it is that wall that MRFF strives to defend each and every day. When leaders in the military services forget what they were taught about religious freedom and allow their personal religious beliefs to intrude on their official duties, then it is almost a certainty that a member of the military assigned under them will call MRFF and ask for help in correcting them and protecting individual freedom of religion. This has happened more than 75,000 times since MRFF was created, and it will undoubtedly continue to happen. It might interest you to know, Ms. Porter, that most of those who contact MRFF for help are practicing Christians who are offended by the actions of their fellow religious believers.
No, (name withheld), MRFF is not going to change its position on religious freedom and display of the Bible, and it is not going to stop defending and supporting the First Amendment to the Constitution. We suggest that you might want to study U.S. history, particularly the part from 1787 to 1791, and actually read the Constitution, rather than just engaging in ill-founded rant. If you did so, you might be the one to change their position on religion in the military
Col. James Tyson Currie, USA (Ret.)Board of Advisors, Military Religious Freedom Foundation Ordained Elder, Presbyterian Church (USA)
Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Apr 15, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Martin France wrote:
Dear (name withheld), thanks for your kind note. As an Advisory Board Member for the MRFF, I occasionally respond to notes like yours. Whether you realize it or not, there are specific restrictions in our US Constitution against the establishment of a state religion. These are supported by regulations within the Dept of Defense and individual services. Numerous court cases have strengthened the concept that our government (including the military) cannot show preference for one religion over another or over no religion at all (google ‘Parker v. Levy’ as an example). You may believe in the Bible and millions of Americans may believe similarly–and I willingly defended that right over 37-plus of active duty service–but that does not mean that a Bible should or can be included as THE single representation of faith at a government facility or event. Here, I’m taking the liberty of presuming that your primary complaint with the MRFF is with our consistent and Constitutional objection to the placement of Christian bibles on POW/MIA tables at Veterans’ facilities, military dining-hall displays, and other locations. You see, the problem with putting a Bible there is that it presumes that those that served (and are now or were POW/MIA) were either all Christian, or that they could only gain solace and support from that Christian text, or are only worthy of our support and memorializing if they were or are Christian.Would you be okay if, instead of the Bible, a copy of the Torah was placed on the table? The Koran? An Atheist/Humanist text, maybe by Samuel Harrisor Christopher Hitchens?The point we are making by objecting to the Bible on the table is that, since no one text can represent ALL honored by the display (and it would be impractical and virtually impossible to include ALL texts that represent our POW/MIAs or provided them with personal support), then it’s most inclusive and Constitutional to have no text at all.You have a right to hand out copies of the Bible to whomever will accept them (up to the point of criminal harrassment), but your religious fervor has no impact on the Constitutional restrictions separating church and state. Believing more on your part, doesn’t make that concept any less valid. In fact, that concept PROTECTS you and your right to worship as you see fit without interference from those that believe differently, just as it protects my right to NOT worship or support any particular religious belief. I wish you could see that, but also know that that would require some modicum of empathy similar to the Christian (and Buddhist and Muslim and Jewish and Humanist and Confucian and…) concept of treating your neighbor as you yourself would want to be treated, i.e., The Golden Rule. Practice what you preach, ma’am, and you, too, might someday better understand the document that forms the basis for our great union.
Sincerely ,Marty France, PhDBrigadier General, USAF (Retired) MRFF Advisory Board
Response from MRFF Supporter Mike Challman
Good Day, (name withheld) –
Mikey Weinstein shared your email with me and asked if I’d like to respond. I always welcome the opportunity to do so, particularly when it appears the email is from a Christian. I am a lifelong, committed, and active Christian myself, as well as a USAF veteran and MRFF supporter. Your brief note, while including an unfortunate insult, does not include any details about what you find objectionable in the work of the MRFF. Your reference to someone being “offended by the Bible” suggests that you know very little about our work…. and in any case, it certainly does not refer to the MRFF. If you will indulge me, I can share some information you may find helpful.
The MRFF’s sole focus, as described in our Mission Statement, is to advocate for military members, “ensuring that all members of the United States Armed Forces fully receive the Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom to which they and all Americans are entitled by virtue of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.” That means just what it says — ALL members. Christian and non-Christian, religious and non-religious, believer and non-believer. And we understand that even a sincere belief with which any of us might agree is not entitled to special preference or prominence. For me, that means that I must object to the inappropriate promotion or preference even of my own Christian beliefs.
There exists today in our society, and in our military, a small but active segment of conservative, Evangelical Christians who believe that the U.S. government should be an explicitly Christian institution, and that the U.S. military should be an explicitly Christian force. Moreover, they believe it is their God-given right to promote their dogma anytime, anywhere, to anyone. As a Christian myself, I may appreciate the passion in their beliefs, but I strongly disagree with the notion that any single religion, even Christianity, should be given preference or prominence in our government and our military. It runs counter to the ideals on which our nation was founded, and more importantly runs counter to the US Constitution. Such efforts are dangerous to the liberty and religious freedom of all Americans… especially the roughly 250,000,000 citizens who are not Evangelical Christians.
Simply put, the MRFF is not “offended by the Bible” – that is entirely incorrect. But it seems to me that, among at least some fervent Christians, there is a feeling that a lack of favoritism is the same thing as oppression. It clearly rubs some people the wrong way to be told that ALL beliefs, including non-belief, are entitled to equal protection and prominence in our governmental institutions, including our military. And specific to the military, as I’m sure you well know, leaders hold a tremendous amount of power, control, and influence over their subordinates. It is incumbent on every military leader to ensure that nothing they do or say promotes their personal religious belief to their troops. But not all leaders honor this responsibility, and in such a strict hierarchy it is difficult for subordinates to advocate for themselves. Thus, the need for the MRFF.
Those of us who have strong beliefs would do well to recall the words of Thomas Paine — “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” I do not consider those whose beliefs differ from my own to be an enemy, so in this instance Paine’s sentiment might be better expressed as — “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even [those with whom he fervently disagrees] from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
I’d be happy to continue a dialogue with you, if you have any comments based on what I’ve shared here.
Peace,
Mike Challman
Christian, Veteran, MRFF Supporter
Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere
On Apr 15, 2022, at 8:39 AM, John Compere wrote:
(name withheld),
Your nonsensical name-calling & self-righteous sermonizing is morally misdirected & would be more rationally & righteously redirected at those who disrespect & disregard the US Constitution, American law, Department of Defense directives & Armed Forces regulations by attempting to publicly force their private religion on military members & their families at military facilities. Military chapels are available for those who choose religious worship & military chaplains are available for those who desire religious instruction.
“Forced worship stinks in God’s nostrils.” – Reverend Roger Williams (American colonial clergy, religious freedom advocate, founder of Rhode Island colony & the First Baptist Church in America).
“God enters by private door into every individual.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson (American philosopher, poet & essayist).
Most Sincerely,
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (composed of 85% Christians)
Response from MRFF Supporter Fr. Steve Dundas
Dear (name withheld), (If that is your name since the email appears to be fraudulent)
I am a retired Navy Chaplain and semi-retired Priest. I know nothing about you except what your email shows. It show you to be a bigoted histrionic person full of hate and revenge, including hinting at either some kind of physical violence and or eternal damnation for Mr. Weinstein and presumably anyone associated with him. You should know that some 95% of the over 77,000 service members and their families who have come to MRFF for assistance are Christians, as are about 85% of the paid and volunteer staff.
Sadly you do not understand what Mr. Weinstein and the rest of us here represent. We protect the religious liberty of everyone in the military, their families and veterans from religiously zealous commanders, superiors, and administrators who misuse their offices to promote their religion and force others to accept it without question. Likewise to guard against military organizations or VA facilities foisting overtly sectarian religious displays in the public areas of their facilities. For them to do so is a breach of the Establishment Clause which makes it appear that the Federal Government is favoring a religion, which is not allowed.
Placing Christian Bibles as part of displays in public areas is a violation of that, and we see it so many times it makes our collective heads swim. The Christian Bible, like the Jewish Talmud, or Muslim Koran is not a religiously neutral item. In fact it is not even in the Christian faith because many churches and denominations only accept certain versions of it.
With that being said you launched an attack on Mr. Weinstein, complete with the implied threats of physical violence and or eternal damnation. You think you are representing God, but you have turned the Bible into an idol, which is kind of blasphemous. To think that you as a Christian sent this on Good Friday to a Jew who will be celebrating Passover is abhorrent.
You actually might want to reevaluate your faith and test its worthiness to see if it passes the muster of the First and Second Commandments, so help you God.
Sincerely,
Fr. Steve Dundas, Commander, Chaplain Corps, U.S. Navy (Retired)
Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Apr 15, 2022, at 8:06 PM, Mike wrote:
Hi (name withheld),
Unsurprisingly, you miss the point. No one here is offended by the Bible. In fact, most of the people associated with the MRFF are Christians. What offends us is what offends the law and military regulations, and that includes things like inappropriate proselytizing, attempting to inject religious themes, references and behavior into government and/or military-sponsored statements, events and activities, etc.
I assume you’ve heard of the separation of church and state. If not, I suggest you look it up and try to understand the importance of true freedom of religious or non-religious choice. Once you grasp the concept, you’ll understand that all views, religious or otherwise, are protected thereby.
There are no idiots here, milady, and you do your personal belief system no honor by indulging in silly name-calling.
Mike Farrell (MRFF Board of Advisors)