Atheists in foxholes?

Published On: May 6, 2010|Categories: MRFF's Inbox|0 Comments|

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Dear MRFF:
Things sure would be a lot simpler if groups like yours would find something constructive to do with thier time. I’ll warrent that there isn’t a single person that you are representing that has even seen combat, because if they had, then they would know that there isn’t such a thing as a “foxhole athiest”. This country was founded on Christian values, and remained as such until recently, as expressed by your president. For the record, islam is the most evil and vile cult that our planet has ever seen. I can’t believe an American such as yourself would condemn the speeches of a Christian Preacher, but not those of the hate-spewing heathens otherwise known as imams. You should be proud of yourself.
Signed,
(name withheld)

Dear (name withheld)
If you will permit me to add to Jeremy’s comment: While we appreciate your expressing your opinion, per your Constitutional rights (which most of us defended, including in combat), you are greatly mistaken.
I, for one, am damned tired of hearing this old saw from people who, for the most part, are only repeating BS their religious leaders have fed them, and who have (usually!) never been in combat themselves – any more than that religious leader was. One of the vanishingly few REAL “fighting chaplains” Rev. Ray Stubbe, the chaplain of the 26th Marines at Khe Sanh, would NEVER say such a damned stupid thing – because he has actually BEEN in combat.
I was a Marine “agnostic in a foxhole” (more correctly a trench in my case) in Vietnam, at the height of the fighting in 1967-8. Read up on the Battle for Khe Sanh Tet, 1968. One of my comrades at Khe Sanh (also an atheist), won the Silver Star for gallantry in action. (He was nominated for – and should have received the Navy Cross, which would have been mildly amusing.) My dad was a Marine “atheist in a foxhole” in WW II in the South Pacific on Guam, Guadalcanal, Bougainville, etc. As to the rest of our group, combat medic SGT Dustin Chalker was an “atheist in a foxhole” in the Sandbox. In fact, he recently sent a picture of him and several of his atheist friends, taken in the Sandbox the last time he was deployed. They are holding a sign that says “Yes, there ARE atheists in foxholes!” I have known a number of atheists, agnostics, and other free- thinkers in the service, both in combat and out of it – so that shoots your (uninformed) opinion in the ass. Which is appropriate, because, as my LT used to say, “Opinions are like a**holes everyone has one and they all stink.” And uninformed opinions stink the worst of them all… However, our numbers here at the MRFF include Christians (the majority of our membership and clients), Jews, Muslims, Pagans (the
religion, not the motorcycle gang) and others. Here are some facts you should know about the MRFF: MRFF’s members, supporters, and clients, are for the most part, veterans, including active, active reserve, retired and former members of the US Armed Forces. We hold ranks from private to commissioned officer, from all branches and MOSs ranging from support to combat arms. Our number includes servicemen and women who fought in WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, Gulf I and the present GWOT, and the many smaller actions between these conflicts.
Many hold personal decorations including the Purple Heart, and awards for valor ranging from the Bronze Star w/ V and the Silver Star on up through the service Crosses. One of our members holds the Medal of Honor. Many members come from multi-generation service families. My own family’s service dates back to the Revolutionary War and on forward through the Civil War, WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf I. I volunteered for the US Marines, and served in close personal ground combat in Viet Nam from 1967-68, including Khe Sanh before and during the Siege, the Hue-Phu Bai region, and elsewhere, and then served until my retirement at a variety of posts and stations. In my last two assignments (Recon), even the training is hazardous. Mr. Weinstein and his family also have distinguished US military service spanning three generations of military academy graduates and over 130 years of combined active duty military service, from World War I to the current GWOT. Mr. Weinstein’s father was a distinguished graduate of the US Naval Academy, and Mr. Weinstein himself was a 1977 Honor Graduate of the US Air Force Academy, later serving for 10 years in the Air Force as a Judge Advocate General (JAG) military attorney, both as prosecutor and defense attorney. His oldest son and daughter-in-law are also Air Force Academy graduates (2004), and his youngest son also graduated from the Academy (2007). He was the sixth member of the Weinstein family to attend the Air Force Academy. Mr. Weinstein’s nephew (an observant Christian), is a Marine NCO in combat arms, enroute to his second deployment in Iraq. (For Mr. Weinstein’s full biography, please see: https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/michael-l-mikey-weinsteinThat’s us in a nutshell. What about you? What is YOUR combat history? What gives you the ability to pontificate (incorrectly) on combat? If you have the track record and the tin, just let us know -and maybe we’ll take your screed a bit more seriously… The MRFF supports the Constitutionally mandated requirements that there will be no established religion (i.e. no state official religion), and no religious test for office, as clearly intended by the Founders both in their words and documents. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .” (1st Amendment) “. . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.” (Article VI, Section III) The MRFF is committed to ensuring that this boundary between church and state is maintained, and that the Constitutional rights to freedom of conscience for all Americans (particularly our servicemen and women) are not violated, and that they are not subjected to unwanted proselytization by any religious group whatsoever. Neither Mr. Weinstein nor the MRFF is “against” Christianity or any
other religion. On the contrary, as the name implies, the MRFF supports religious freedom and pluralism for all faiths or none, in accordance with the US Constitution (see above) and public law. Mr. Weinstein himself is an observant Jew, and his own family circle is one of blended faiths, including observant Christians. The MRFF staff (paid and volunteers) is composed of approximately 75% Christians of varying sects (mainly Protestant, including evangelical), 15% Jews, and 10% all others, including Hindus, Muslims, and various other faiths, as well as free-thinkers of various types, including atheists and agnostics. Currently, 96% of all 17,000 MRFF cases are brought on behalf of professing Christians, (mainly Protestants), followed by Catholics (including Roman and Eastern Orthodox). That means that over 16,000 CHRISTIAN service men and women are being harassed by an “uber-Christian” sect who deems them not Christian enough. The 4% balance of our cases includes Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs, as well as self-described Pagans of various sects, a scattering of atheists, agnostics, and other free-thinkers, and at least one self-described “Jedi Knight” (a religion formed around the Jedi Knights of the Star Wars movies). The great preponderance of the cases we have taken involve abuses of authority and violations of the above quoted Constitutional guarantees of freedom of conscience by a specific sub-set of aggressively evangelical radicals who style themselves “Christians” and who are becoming increasingly entrenched and powerful in the military at ranks all the way up to flag officer. They are known variously as Dominionists or Reconstructionists. In violation of the Constitution, public law, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, members of these groups aggressively attempt to proselytize service members, but failing that, harass, bully, and attempt to intimidate (often under color of authority) service members under their command, in order to forcibly attempt to proselytize them, using tactics ranging from denying choice assignments and promotions to all but those they consider “Christian enough” to giving those unwilling to knuckle under poor performance reviews, and assigning difficult, dirty, and dangerous tasks -including potentially deadly tasks in combat They advocate the overthrow of the US Republic and current Constitution (by ballot if possible, but by the bullet if necessary), and replacing them with the establishment of an Old Testament style theocracy, complete with “Biblical” Sharia-like laws, which would re-institute slavery (including for debtors), make capital crimes of homosexuality, adultery, loss of virginity out of wedlock (for women only, of course), women wearing red dresses (really!), “incorrigible” juvenile delinquency, and not keeping a kosher kitchen, among other things, with public executions by stoning, sword, or other “Biblical” methods, and with mandatory attendance and participation by the whole community – including children. They have been correctly described as “American Taliban.” Anyone not considered not “Christian enough” by these people if they gain power will be forced to either convert to or accept their warped version of Christianity – or die. (We get daily death threats from them and their cohorts.) The Dominionists and their allied sects are committing egregious assaults on the Constitution and on the rights of servicemen and women daily. We expose to the clear light of day their violations, as well as those of any other individuals or groups who attempt the same. Unfortunately, this group constitutes the bulk of the complaints we receive. Here is a text file with some more detail on the problem.
As to “vile and evil cults” – Being an agnostic, I have no dog in this fight, but just as an outsider looking in, and an historian by training and inclination, I think most religions have a record of being “vile and evil” cults, at least at some point in their development. However, do you really think Christianity (or any other religion) is blemish-free? Remember the verse about the mote in your neighbor’s eye and the beam in your own? Just for the record, in addition to the actions and plans of the Dominionists, let’s look at the historic record. I can only assume from your remarks that you are totally clueless about the history of Christianity and its leadership, and its long love affair with murderous acts committed in the name of the “Prince of Peace” and blessed by its leaders, going back for many centuries. Jewish and Christian scriptures (both Testaments) have a great deal of violence and bloodshed, some committed by Yahweh himself, and some by the people under his command. Consider the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) wherein Yahweh personally kills the entire population, including children and infants. (This passage also includes the rather lurid account of Lot’s daughters sleeping with and getting pregnant by him, but is not relevant to this discussion.)
Another such passage is the massacre of the Midianites (Numbers 31:1-54) wherein the Israelites, under God’s direction, attacks the Midianites, killing all the adult males, but taking the women and children captive. They are then directed to kill every male among the child captives, and every woman that “hath known man by lying with him” but “all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” Thus the Israelites killed everyone except the (female) virgins, netting 32,000 virgins. (Of course, God gets some of the booty – including some virgins.) Also in Numbers (33:50-52), God tells Moses to exterminate the Canaanites and destroy all of their religious symbols and possessions – but if the Israelites don’t kill them all, then God will make “pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides” and do to the Israelites as he planned to do to the Canaanites. Most of the chapters of Judges and Samuel, and indeed the entire Torah, are filled with similar tales, as well as rape, murder, and just about every imaginable (and unimaginable) brutality. There are hundreds of examples of cruelty, violence, torture, and murder – and that’s only the stuff Yahweh sanctioned or ordered. I think that all of this would constitute unfriendly and violent exhortations and actions to any reasonable and sane person (although religious fanatics of any stripe seldom meet those standards in my experience). If it happened today, it could get the planner and order-giver (God) and the perpetrators (the Israelites) tried as war criminals for murdering non-combatants and captives, raping, looting, etc. But of course, god OKed it… Also in a spirit of fairness, read Matthew 10:34 – 36: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. Not a very peaceful message in my opinion. The actual deeds (as opposed to the words) of many religious groups differ when they achieve power – from the brutal murder of the brilliant philosopher Hypatia by the early Christians (apparently mainly because she was a brilliant female), to the various bloody “internal crusades” against the Albigensians and other “heretics” (not to mention the crusades in the “Holy Land”), and on through the Inquisition, the witch-hunts, and the later ferocious and devastating religious wars between the Protestants and Catholics the destruction of priceless cultural heritage artifacts and treasures by one side or the other – and all of them said it was because they represented the “only true religion” – and all of it done in the name of a god who was supposedly a god of peace, mercy, and love. And let’s not get started on child abuse by the clergy – and not just the Catholics! So Christianity has its own violent history. In fact, James Madison summed it up best when he wrote in his “Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments” of June 1785: “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” “What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.” I think an examination of a number of most religions would also find texts of a questionable nature – at least to someone from outwith that faith group. (Mr. Graham, BTW, is part of the problem, being affiliated with those Dominionist whackos I mentioned above.) In summation, let me just say that we at the MRFF ARE doing constructive things with our tie – defending the Constitution – and that we are indeed proud of our work. Let me also remind you that in future, you shouldn’t shoot off you mouth without knowing the score, or what you are talking about.
F. J. Taylor
USMC (Ret.)
CAP Oscar-2
Khe Sanh, RVN, 1967-8
http://sites.google.com/site/usmccaposcar/in-memoriam
PS: This nation was not founded on “Christian values” – it was founded by men who (although many were Christians themselves, and some were even ministers) were wise enough to keep religion out of the government – because they had seen what it wrought everywhere it became established. Since you are obviously historically challenged (as well as spelling and usage – “thier” – should be their, and “warrent” is sp. “warrant”), I attach a PDF with some facts (as opposed to the mythology you seem to have been spoon-fed) about the Founders and the origin of the nation.

PPS: Here are some more “vile, evil, Muslims” for you to hate:
Major James M. Ahearn, USA (and a Muslim), KIA by an IED July 5, 2007, Baghdad. Bronze Star, Purple Heart
Major Ahearn was 43 years old and on his third tour of duty. He fought in Gulf I and rose from enlisted man to officer. During the battle to secure Baghdad, he received several medals for bravery. When he was KIA, he had been charged with developing relationships with Iraqi civilians. He was a mature soldier who was convinced that he understood what was at stake in the war. He left his wife, Lena, and a daughter, Kadi, and his father, Jim, a retired FBI agent who headed the Phoenix office.

CPT Humayun S. M. Khan, USA (Muslim), KIA by an IED June 8, 2007, Iraq. Bronze Star, Purple Heart
On June 8, CPT Khan died in a suicide car bombing at the main gates of his base. CPT Khan was an ordnance officer with the Germany-based 201st Forward Support Battalion, 1st Infantry Division. His unit was charged with the day-to-day security and maintenance of the camp. When an orange-colored taxi drove toward them, Khan, suspecting a possible bomber, ordered his soldiers to “hit the dirt,” said his father, who received details of his son’s death from his commanding officer. Khan then walked toward the car, motioning for it to stop, his father said. A makeshift bomb inside it exploded, killing him and two Iraqi civilians in addition to the two suicide bombers. Ten soldiers and six Iraqi citizens were also wounded.

SSG Ayman A. Taha, USA (Muslim), KIA Dec. 30, 2005, Iraq. Bronze Star, Purple Heart

CPL Kareem R. S. Khan, USA (Muslim), KIA by an IED Aug. 6, 2007, Iraq. Bronze Star, Purple Heart

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