POW/MIA table

What an appalling take on religion!!  As per status quo of liberals, you go on the attack to whomever disagrees with you. (ie: God in the Constitution)

 

May I gently remind you this nation was founded on Christian faith.  If someone who was a POW or family member of a POW would request their book of faith be included, there would be no negative reaction when the request was explained.  We Christians do not hold the market in believing in a supreme being.

 

My father was not a religious man but deeply believed in God.  He spent 3 1/2 years as a POW of the Japanese in the jungles of Burma Thailand as a POW/MIA.  His family had presumed he had died until he came home from the war.

 

I ask that you research the hellish conditions of starvation & torture of these POW’s so you can better comprehend & have more empathy for anyone who has lived like an animal to survive — and some didn’t make it.

 

I feel sadness for the Jewish & Muslim men who felt offended.  Surely, there was a better compromise than the knee jerk reaction of removing the Bible.  Each and every man who has endured the unimaginable deserves the same respect & honor as the next man.

(name withheld)


 

Dear (name withheld),

What makes you believe that we are all liberals? What we are guilty of is being PC – not politically correct but Pro Constitution.

 

I’m happy for you that your father came home after 3 ½ years. My uncle’s body is still MIA from WWII.

 

I’m sorry that you have been misled by the media, organizations or people whom know the facts but choose to ignore them.

 

We are neither an atheist organization nor are we anti-Christian. Mikey is Jewish (and prays to the same Father we do 3 times a day) and 80% of the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters (244 in total) of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) are Christians. In fact, 96% of our 45,200+ soldier clients are Christians – Catholics, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodist, Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. We fight for the rights of these Christians more than any other religion but it never makes the news.

It is not our view that the Bible has no place on a POW/MIA table but the Constitution and subsequent Supreme Court rulings that we must obey.

As defenders of the Constitution we fight for the separation of church and state.

 

Here’s a history lesson for you:

 

“…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” (Article I, III)

This means that from the President to Congress to the military – no one’s job is based on their religion.

 

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (Establishment Clause), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (Free Exercise Clause).”(First Amendment)

 

The Establishment Clause means that you cannot favor one religion over another even though it is in the majority. This clause respects the RIGHTS of all religions. Our military is SECULAR and there are people of other faiths that don the uniform that love this country.

 

The Free Exercise Clause (which is subservient to the Establishment Clause) means that our soldiers are free to exercise any religion they want or no religion at all but cannot elevate one God above others.

 

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.” Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320.

 

This is his second known use of the term “wall of separation,” here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter.

 

This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause.

 

Jefferson’s concept of “separation of church and state” first became a part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878). In that case, the court examined the history of religious liberty in the US, determining that while the constitution guarantees religious freedom, “The word ‘religion’ is not defined in the Constitution. We must go elsewhere, therefore, to ascertain its meaning and nowhere more appropriately, we think, than to the history of the times in the midst of which the provision was adopted.” The court found that the leaders in advocating and formulating the constitutional guarantee of religious liberty were James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Quoting the “separation” paragraph from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, the court concluded that, “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.

 

In 1878 “separation of church and state” became part of the Establishment Clause by law.

 

Having only the Bible on the table violates the Establishment Clause.

 

The Supreme Court heard the Lemon v. Kurtzman case in 1971 and ruled in favor of the Establishment Clause. Subsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the Lemon Test:

 

Government action violates the Establishment Clause unless it:
1. has a significant secular (i.e., non-religious) purpose
2. does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion
3. does not foster excessive entanglement between government and religion

 

Having only the Bible on the table violates the Lemon Test.

 

Parker v. Levy:

“This Court has long recognized that the military is, by necessity, a specialized society separate from civilian society… While the members of the military are not excluded from the protection granted by the First Amendment, the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections. … The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it… Speech [in any form] that is protected in the civil population may nonetheless undermine the effectiveness of response to command.  If it does, it is constitutionally unprotected.” (Emphasis added) Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 1974

 

Having only the Bible on the table violates Parker v. Levy.

 

The Bible on the table does not represent all of the 83,000+ POW/MIA’s. Within the missing are soldiers of other beliefs or of no belief system, especially since my uncle was an atheist and is MIA.

 

In other words, if they want a Bible on the POW/MIA table they have to include the Torah, Koran, representations of other religions and atheism in order to be in compliance with the Constitution, Lemon Test and Parker v. Levy. It’s either all religions or none but they removed the bible from the table because they didn’t want to share it.

 

The blame is placed squarely at their feet…not ours.

 

The Founding Fathers regarding a secular government not based on Christianity:

 

The Treaty of Tripoli was signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796.It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797; a mere 8 years since our Constitution went into effect. If what was written was wrong in anyway, there would have been uproar. But, it passed unanimously and confirmed that America was not founded on Christianity.

Treaty of Tripoli:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The Constitution reflects our founder’s views of a secular government protecting the freedom of any belief or unbelief.

 

The historian, Robert Middlekauff, observed, “The idea that the Constitution expressed a moral view seems absurd. There were no genuine evangelicals in the Convention, and there were no heated declarations of Christian piety.”

 

“The Salem witchcraft was the rock on which the theocracy shattered”. George Lincoln Burr (1857 – 1938), Professor of History and Librarian at Cornell University

 

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

 

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”

Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

“Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.” 

James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments

 

“God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”
Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

 

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”

James Madison 1785 Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments

 

“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;’ the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act For Religious Freedom.

 

“I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect above another.”

Thomas Jefferson’s letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

 

According to our Founding Fathers the Constitution is not based on Christianity or biblical laws.

 

“Each and every man who has endured the unimaginable deserves the same respect & honor as the next man.”

 

We couldn’t agree with you more.

 

Pastor Joan

MRFF Advisory Board Member


 

Thank you for your prompt yet long lecture.  I culled my information from your own web site….I’ve also found many web sites that will state this country was founded on Christian faith & others who say it is not.  What should make us all proud is that we have freedom OF religion, not FROM religion & have welcomed immigrants of many faiths.  As I said before, if an ex-POW or family member has a faith other than Christian, their book of faith would be welcomed on the POW table.

Having the Bible removed from the POW table or in the lobby of a VA office/clinic seems so trivial.  If you don’t like it – leave your book of faith there to be seen.

Mickey has replied to me — it seems his mode of operation is being rude & caustic.

What a shame.  I will say a prayer for him to open his heart to all faiths instead of zeroing in on Christians.

(name withheld)


 

Dear (name withheld),

Yes, there are many sites out there that say we were founded as a Christian nation and they are written by Christians. They depend on David Barton.

 

David Barton is one of the most influential pseudo-historians out there because he is a revisionist. Google ‘David Barton is a fraud’ and you will see that Nelson Publishing (a Christian publisher) pulled his book from print because historians and Christian historians said he was a fake and sometimes made up things out of thin air.

 

Barton had to buy back the books from Nelson Publishing and is selling them through his Wallbuilders site and Christians aren’t checking his footnotes or researching his ‘facts’ like the Bereans of old who checked the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught is true.

 

The early Christian settlers came here to flee theocracy that was rampant in Europe, yet did the same thing once they got here. Different denominations of Christians were killing each other because each one believed they were the only ‘true’ Christians.

 

In Virginia, Thomas Jefferson wrote the “Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom.” The bill said that “no man shall be compelled (forced) to frequent (go to) or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever.”

 

This bill gave the people of Virginia freedom FROM religion. He believed there should be a “wall between church and state.” He did not believe people should pay taxes to support any church. Jefferson worked to get rid of laws that kept the church in power in Virginia.

When the bill passed, Virginia became the first state to ‘separate church and state.’ It is still part of Virginia’s constitution. It was used as a model for other state’s constitutions. It was also used as a model for the religious language in the Bill of Rights: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

http://classroom.monticello.org/kids/resources/profile/262/Virginia-Statute-for-Religious-Freedom/

“As I said before, if an ex-POW or family member has a faith other than Christian, their book of faith would be welcomed on the POW table.  Having the Bible removed from the POW table or in the lobby of a VA office/clinic seems so trivial.  If you don’t like it – leave your book of faith there to be seen.”

 

That’s exactly how we feel but they would not allow it. Again, they refused to allow anything other than the bible, which is an Establishment of Religion in a government entity and against our laws. Hence, they removed it.

 

The reason it seems we are “zeroing in on Christians” is because it is the ONLY religion that feels they are above the law and keep breaking it. If they obeyed our laws we wouldn’t be having this fight.

 

Just because Christianity is in the majority doesn’t mean that they come first and those in the minority are second class citizens. Christians do not ‘allow’ people of other faiths to come here because it is ‘allowed’ under the Constitution.

 

Justice Sandra Day O’Connor (now retired), the first woman appointed to the Supreme Court, was as a hard-working moderate conservative.

First Amendment legacy
Though perhaps not in the forefront of First Amendment jurisprudence, Justice O’Connor wrote  some significant concurrent opinions, most notably in the realm of religious freedom.

From her concurrence in Lynch v. Donnelly (1984), a case involving Nativity scenes that set the legal standard for determining which religious displays violate the Constitution’s
prohibition on government establishment of religion:

“The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person’s standing in the political community. Government can run afoul of that prohibition in two principal ways. One is excessive entanglement with religious institutions, which may interfere with the independence of the institutions, give the institutions access to government or governmental powers not fully shared by nonadherents of the religion, and foster the creation of political constituencies defined along religious lines. The second and more direct infringement is government endorsement or disapproval of religion. Endorsement sends a message to nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community. Disapproval sends the opposite message.”

In one of her final writings on the Court, a concurring opinion in the Ten Commandments case McCreary County v. ACLU (2005) issued June 27, O’Connor said: “It is true that many Americans find the Commandments in accord with their personal beliefs. But we do not count heads before enforcing the First Amendment.”

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/justice-oconnor-to-retire

“I will say a prayer for him to open his heart to all faiths…”

 

That is EXACTLY what the Military Religious Freedom Foundation stands for; fighting for the rights of ALL faiths and no faith in the military under our Constitution and case laws.

 

Pastor Joan


 

Aw sheeze — another long lecture from “Pastor Joan”.  Typical liberal rhetoric.  Like my Dad would say when he thought I wasn’t listening — If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, they will try to confuse you with bull s***.  lol

 

I’m not answering — they aren’t worth my time.

 

The head of the MRFF is an angry SOB.  This pastor person quotes me stating that’s what they believe in.  Horse hocky!  They’re as full of crap as a Christmas turkey.

 

If I let them know I posted our bantering on FB, they’d go nuts (giggle).

 

Mickey, the head of this cult sent me a caustic message that was totally unprofessional but stereotypical of ultra left wingers. “Hey, sport, freedom OF religion absolutely includes freedom FROM religion… It’s all a matter of time, place and manner… No offense, but did you ever graduate from high school or get a GED?”

 

Onward and forward with my TO DO list for today!

(name withheld)


 

Every email we receive with every response is sent out to our liaisons on almost every base in the world. They then distribute them out to their local area. We aren’t going nuts over you posting this on your FB page because the world has already seen it.

Pastor Joan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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