Re: MRFF Rebukes Arrogant ACLJ

I was a military chaplain for 26+ years of Active Duty.  I did not like the National Day of Prayer…. One bit.   I’m all for praying.  But I e(name withhexperienced very aggressive Christians each year….trying to hijack the religious focus to act out their own brand of religion and exclude others.  The NDP also touts a official site with many of their religious items for sale.  These were certainly not inclusive of people from other faith…  Yikes.  The NDP…..should be off military bases….

(name withheld)

 

 

 

 

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46 Comments

  1. Tom O

    Is a purely religious “holiday” originated and promoted by government “establishment of religion”?

  2. Connie

    Hi Tom O

    The National Day of Prayer, like many other holidays we celebrate in the US has it’s roots in religion. The official day is all about inclusion which is why it passes the no establishment phrase. Plus, the idea is it’s not a mandatory holiday so it’s not enforcing one view. Recently I thought people of no faith were included. I may be too optimistic.

    As I understand it, there is also a National Day of Prayer “Task Force” – a self identifying religious organization. That part of the NDP is Evangelical in focus and is historically exclusive in nature. The two are so close though many people of faith in the government and military participate not knowing they are in fact endorsing Evangelical Christianity as the official okey doke religion of the USA.

    If you stare into
    The abyss too long it will
    Stare back with your eyes.

  3. Tom O

    Yes, government does observe some holidays with religious origin, Christmas and Easter prime examples, but those were already religious holidays BEFORE they acquired some
    secular aspects and government started observing them. (I know of no religions that worship Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.) In contrast, the National Day of Prayer was ORIGINATED by the US government, informally by presidential procalamation until legislated in 1952. Whether that government-sponsored-and-promoted holiday is “inclusive” and “not mandatory” doesn’t make it less an “establishment of religion.”

  4. Rev Bob

    The National Day of Prayer is not a holiday, nobody gets that day off from work and gets paid for it, if they did then I would talk to my employer asking they add that to the list of company holidays we already get. What is really bad is that we do not get Veterans Day off and we tout ourselves as a pro-military company, figure that one out.

  5. Rev Bob

    The Congressional Prayer Caucus Recognizes 2016 National Day of Prayer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai58OR3M7OU&feature=youtu.be

    This is awesome, over 100 Congressmen and women praying for our nation!

  6. Rev Bob

    2016 Nat’l Day of Prayer to Be Largest in History With 47,000 Host Sites Across the US
    Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/2016-national-day-of-prayer-largest-in-history-47000-sites-across-us-163034/#DhtRUMqAx7wiClUi.99

  7. Tom O

    if”The National Day of Prayer is not a holiday,” what other word is a more accurate description of it. Whatever you call it, it’s still government telling people to pray.

  8. Connie

    Tom O,

    I was all for the NDP until I saw how far people like Rev Bob take it, and their assertion that this proves once and for all that the USA was founded to be a Christian Nation (trademark pending)///////////////

    This post has changed my position. It is too bad SOME people take this event as proof their religion is the only one. It is too bad that the spirit of inclusiveness is missing from SOME people’s soul (looking at you Rev Bob).

  9. Rev Bob

    How about the NDP being a day of remembrance for anyone of any religion to pray for our nation, like Holocaust Remembrance Day in Israel is a day to remember the 6 million Jews who were murdered during WWII.

    The government does not force anyone to pray on that day, but it is an individuals right to pray.

  10. Rev Bob

    If the NDP was not enough for you now comes the Global Day of Prayer on May 15th. http://www.globaldayofprayer.com/

    Why are you so against prayer, both our nation and world desperately need it as both are going down hill fast!

  11. Tom O

    Again the “anyone opposed to theocracy is against religion” victim game.
    I’m not against prayer: I’m against GOVERNMENT promoting prayer or religion, even if that promotion doesn’t include any form of pressure or coercion.

  12. Connie

    Only reason Rev Bob believes the world is going downhill fast is because the priest class no longer has open rule or the ear of those who do rule.

    Not that Rev Bob will answer but here is my question – how is the National Day of Prayer in anyway like the Day of Remembrance for the Holocaust victims of WWII?

    False equivalency (again) Rev Bob. You may want to get your money back from that ‘top notch’ college you attended. They didn’t do a good job of instilling in you any critical thinking skills.

  13. Rev Bob

    DAUGHTER OF BILLY GRAHAM, ANNE GRAHAM LOTZ TO BE NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER TASK FORCE
    http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=18179
    Cool

  14. Connie

    Again Rev Bob fails
    To use critical thinking
    Logic too foreign?

  15. Rev Bob

    I am curious, if you would consider Jesus a Dominionist based upon this poster I saw on Facebook, it said – “Jesus was a revolutionary who came to overthrow the status quo, set up the kingdom of God and drive back the powers of darkness.”

    If you do, then why should not every Christian want to be like Jesus?

  16. Connie

    Rev Bob believes he
    Is revolutionary;
    Preaches Status Quo

  17. Rev Bob

    Jesus was a revolutionary of his day, should not His followers be just as revolutionary in our time! The status quo means the current situation or the ways things are now. Right now the current situation in the United States is rampant pornography, prostitution, homosexuality, abortion, etc, so every Christian should be out to overthrow this through peaceful means and legislation so that we push back the powers of darkness in our nation today!

  18. Connie

    The only evil
    Force commenting here is the
    Rev Bob! Fancy that!

  19. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    It is evil wanting to stop prostitution, abortion, pornography, etc??? You have turned the world upside down from what is right and true!

    You have some pretty rose colored stained glasses there Connie not to see the evil that pervades our culture, country and planet. Do you feel that sex traffiking is wrong? Do you feel what ISIS does is wrong? Do you feel it is okay for a women to sell her body on the streets for any John?? Do you feel that is wrong that our nation is the greatest supplier of pornography and child porn around the world??

  20. Connie

    All I see, Rev Bob
    Is you crying about the
    Sky falling. Again

  21. Connie

    Whatever the worlds
    Problems, Rev Bob, you don’t know
    the answer for All

    Hubris is saying
    Your one solution must fit
    Everyone. No!

  22. Tom O

    The social evils that Rev Bob wants Christians to fight are primarily a result of Corporate America using the techniques developed from modern knowledge of psychology to manipulate the public to be more selfish, greedy, materialistic, superficial, and overly obsessed with sex, because those personality traits result in people BUYING more.
    Rev Bob doesn’t want to look at who is doing that and why, because the people who worship/are-addicted-to money and power also use those same manipulative tools to support the fundamentalist bible-thumpers’ viewpoints, thus “buying them off” so they keep quiet about who the “powers of darkness” really are.

  23. Rev Bob

    Tom O,
    You poor deceived person, the powers of darkness are Satan and his fallen angels otherwise demons, who have been around long before the worlds were created.

    The evils you see are the result of man’s sin entering into humanity and not corporate greed and it was this same evil and sin which caused God to wipe out all of humanity except for Noah and his family.

    Yes there is a solution for everyone, it is called Christ dying on a cross for you and me and everyone who will be born!

    Tom, I would certainly not say that ISIS cutting off the heads or men, women and little children is due to Corporate America, that is nothing but pure evil and barbarism.

  24. Tom O

    “The evils you see are the result of man’s sin entering into humanity and not corporate greed.” So the people who run those corporations and make huge amounts of money by
    actively promoting selfishness, greed, materialism, and obsession with sex aren’t evil? Isn’t there something in Rev Bob’s favorite book about rich men and camels? Isn’t the “decadence of Western culture” one of the ideas that ISIS uses to attract recruits? Thanks for illustrating the truth of the last sentence of my previous comment.

  25. Rev Bob

    Tom O,
    Of course any man or woman who make huge amounts of money by promoting obession with sex are evil.

  26. Connie

    Rev Bob – so you really are evil!

    I mean, you mention sex more than any other poster on this site. You are almost, shall I say, obsessed! LOL You said it yourself, thank you so much.

    Tried to put my response into a Haiku but my brain is full of Fibro fluff. Hard to be witty when you feel like a character from Winnie the Pooh.

  27. Connie

    There was a concept, way back in history, that to those who were given much, even more would be expected. I’m not sure how it morphed into I’ve got mine, now burn the ladder so no one else can climb up.

    The only positive thought I can conjure is what all those really rich folk will eat when humans as a whole turn away from them and their money. I’m pretty sure bills are not very tasty. Perhaps they need some Tabasco?

  28. Tom O

    “Of course any man or woman who make huge amounts of money by promoting obsession with sex are evil.” But people who make huge amounts of money by promoting selfishness, greed, and materialism are great and wonderful as long as they help promote belief in the “war on Christianity.”

  29. G

    “I am curious, if you would consider Jesus a Dominionist based upon this poster I saw on Facebook, it said – “Jesus was a revolutionary who came to overthrow the status quo, set up the kingdom of God and drive back the powers of darkness.”

    Well, after 2,000 years I don’t see God driving back the powers of darkness.

  30. Angela Schweig

    “Rev” Bob,

    “DAUGHTER OF BILLY GRAHAM, ANNE GRAHAM TO BE THE NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER TASK FORCE”

    Well, well, Bob (or should I start to call you “boob”?) Once again you prove that you’re not a critical thinker and you selectively spread disinformation that supports your purposes. The NDP TASK FORCE ISN’T
    associated with the National Day of Prayer established by unanimous proclamation of Congress and signed into law by Pres Harry Truman in 1952 (following the model of the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1775). The NDPTF is a Dominionist organization established by James Dobson, founder and president of Focus on the Family. The NDPTF is currently run by Dobson’s wife Shirley.

    As Connie posts on this site to you frequently, get a refund from that top notch college you went to. You’ve failed to do even minimal research on Google, which is where I found this information.

  31. Rev Bob

    Dear Angela,
    I am fully aware the NDPTF is not part of the National Day of Prayer which our government established.

    I am beginning to think that you guys think that everything associated to evangelicalism is dominiionist which it is not and the NDPTF is not a Dominionist organization either. If the Jews and Muslims want their own task force they are more than welcome to start one. Have at it!

    Have a great day Angela!

  32. Connie

    The Dominionists’
    Think Their god first, then Country
    Sounds like you Rev Bob

    The National Day of Prayer’s intent is all about inclusion. The NDP Task Force is all about exclusion. Perhaps it is the task force that needs to be disbanded; especially since they snooker military folk to appear at their events, in uniform (which is against every code that exists).

    Rev Bob – we’ve defined you. We know you and all your words fall like ashes at our feet because there is no factual basis to them.

    If everyone had their own task force, wouldn’t that look like, well, church? Honestly. And you call me stupid!!!

  33. Rev Bob

    Connie,
    We put our God first then country, because that is what God demands of His followers, and not just before country, but before their jobs, their spouses, their children, before their family! God demands our all, even our bodies. Paul says to commit our bodies to God as a living sacrifice!!

    Many Jews and Muslims who have turned to Christ and have made them their Lord and Savior, have faced ridicule and expulsion from their families and even death for becoming a Christian, but none have regretted their decision for they have counted serving Christ and His kingdom as more important than wanting to please their families. I knew a guy in college who was a Jew from Israel who accepted Jesus as his Messiah, and his family had a burial ceremony and now considered him as dead, but he was willing to lose his family for the sake of serving Christ his Messiah!

    This is something you and others will never understand until you turn your life over to Christ.

  34. Connie

    Rev Bob,

    You tell a good story, making yourself and those exactly like you the hero. So, hero, why are your actions more in line with a villain?

    No more discussion though. You haven’t earned that right from me. You ignore direct questions. You belittle others faith. You are a bully and many other labels I used across the site.

    In closing, these are for you.

    Religion is like
    Human sex parts, it’s polite
    To keep them covered

    Rev Bob believes his
    Religious bits must be thrust
    Into our face. Ick.

    And –

    I forgive the rev
    Bob for he is blind and will
    Not open his eyes

    What frightened him so
    To make him frozen this way
    Love is the answer

  35. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    How sweet, however, “I once was blind but now I see!”

    This is no story Connie, this is what God demands in His Word of all believers, we must love Him more, than anyone else on earth! If he says sell all your possessions and follow Him, you do it. If he says that by turning your life over to me, you may lose your spouse, your children and family, you do it!! The King of Kings and the Lord of Lord demands our absolute obedience without questioning!!

    I pledge my allegiance first to Christ before any country on planet earth.

    So, Connie, Christ has opened my eyes which were once spiritually blind and now I see what is The Truth and no longer believe the lie that this world speaks oh so loudly these days!

    Jesus once said that men will revile you one day on account of Me! Well, His prophetic words are even more true today than before. I count it a blessing to be reviled for His Name!

  36. Rev Bob

    Connie,
    I do apologize for calling you stupid, that was wrong of me!! If anything, is that I feel very sorry for you, for you are so spiritually blind and Satan has so deceived your mind to where a lie has become the truth to you. May God have mercy on you and that He may open your eyes to see Him who is the Truth!

    God bless!!

  37. Rev Bob

    Connie,
    This is what I have been trying to tell you above, here are Jesus’ words from the gospel of Luke to those who would want to be His disciple – Luke 14:16 – “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” Now to clarify, the Greek word here for “hate” means to love more than. Then Luke 14:33 says – “So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.”

    Jesus says, if you want to follow Him you must be willing to renounce all that he has , mother, father, spouse, children, siblings and yes even your own country to become his disciple!

    Years ago, I made a commitment to the Lord which I still stand by today that I wanted to be His disciple no matter what the cost would be even if it means giving up my life!
    My life is no longer mine, it is all His!

  38. G

    “Jesus says, if you want to follow Him you must be willing to renounce all that he has , mother, father, spouse, children, siblings and yes even your own country to become his disciple!”

    Rev Bob why don’t you tell the rich people to renounce all their worldly possessions and their money.and see what kind of reaction they will give to you.

    “Luke 14:16 – “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”

    What about all the people who hate their parents, brothers, and sisters because they were physically and mentally mistreated and abused by their own family members? What is your answer to that, Rev Bob?

    “The King of Kings and the Lord of Lord demands our absolute obedience without questioning!!”

    God is a hypocrite because he gave us free will; however, at the same time, will only give us conditional love as long as we obey him. Kind of like someone who states that he/she loves you but only when it is on his/her term. And you Rev Bob is the one who is spiritually blind.

  39. Rev Bob

    G,
    Where did you get the idea that God’s love is conditional? Scripture never teaches that, it says that His love is unconditional. He loves us unconditionally, but yet He still expects us to obey Him even in our free will.

    God still loved Hitler unconditionally even when he was killing 11 million people, and if he had truly repented from all that, God would still forgive him and he would be in heaven today instead of facing future judgment.

    You have this almost fetish with wealthy people. There are a few wealthy people who are very philantrophic, giving millions to chartiable organizations. There are even some wealthy Christians who give millions away. I can think of Mr. LeTourneau who started LeTourneau University in Texas, and he gave 90% of his income to the Lord and His work and only kept 10% for himself.

    You need to study the character of God, for while God is loving, patient, gracious. merciful, at the same time He is also just, angry, wrathful.

  40. Tom O

    Does Rev Bob have anything to say about my last 2 comments?

  41. G

    Rev Bob, you seem to have this fetish attitude that corporate greed is not a sin despite the fact that those corporations are run by wealthy people who have broken the 10 Commandments in both their personal and professional lives.

    i don’t think that many people would be happy if Hitler was allowed into heaven by God. They would be asking God, why did you create Hell if you are not going to hold people accountable for their actions and forgive them for what they have done to God’s children?

    Studies have shown that most wealthy people are cheapskates, are paranoia about losing their wealth, have no compassion or empathy for people, have narcissist personalities, and they think that they are God’s gift to the world and think that if it wasn’t for them, we all being living in the Stone Age.

    You have not answered my question how people hating their family members with regards to being a disciple of God. Then again, you have overwhelmingly answer Tom O’s comments/questions.

    George Carlin studied God and came to the conclusion that God can’t handle money and always need more money despite that fact that he is all powerful and all knowing.

  42. G

    Bill Burr also studied God and stated that if people weren’t good at math, were poor, etc., then God needs to take responsibility for making people that way.

  43. G

    “here are a few wealthy people who are very philantrophic, giving millions to chartiable organizations. There are even some wealthy Christians who give millions away. I can think of Mr. LeTourneau who started LeTourneau University in Texas, and he gave 90% of his income to the Lord and His work and only kept 10% for himself.”

    Yeah, well about 62 people have half of the world’s wealth and the Walton family who owns Wal-Mart have the wealth than the bottom 40 percent of America’s population which means they don’t care about giving the rest of us a decent standard of living and don’t give me this garbage that they earn it through the sweat of their brow while the rest of us are shiftless, lazy people.

  44. Tom O

    So Rev Bob is unwilling to admit that people who make huge amounts of money by
    actively promoting selfishness, greed, materialism, and obsession with sex are evil (or even that they’re “tools of Satan)? I suspect that he doesn’t want to respond to my last 2 comments because he’d have to look at how and why religion and sex are politicized.
    A political group whose prime goal is to increase redistribution of wealth upward has to distract voters from that by manipulating the public’s emotions to override facts and logic. The four topics that arouse the strongest emotions are, in descending order, sex, money, religion, and politics, so politicians who want to distract voters from their campaign financiers’ lust for money and power use the most effective (and constantly being improved) emotional manipulation techniques in history to inflame emotions about sex and religion. The right-wing political noise machine screams about the phony “war on Christianity” and “your children will be made gay,” and in return the theocrats ignore the discrepancies between real Christianity and their political allies’ promotion of selfishness, greed, materialism, and obsession with sex to feed their addiction to money and power. Authoritarians tend toward puritanical “sex is icky and exists ONLY to make babies” attitudes for 2 reasons: a person with a spouse and children to support is much less likely to rebel against the ruling elite, and couples who have a loving pleasurable sexual relationship are likely to feel more loyalty to each other than to their political and religious leaders.

  45. Tom O

    CORRECTION Rev Bob did admit that people who make huge amounts of money by promoting obsession with sex are evil. Why is he unwilling to admit that people who make huge amounts of money by actively promoting selfishness, greed, and materialism are evil? Why doesn’t he want to discuss what his favorite book says about rich men and camels? Anyone have any answers other than my last comment?

  46. G

    “Then again, you have overwhelmingly answer Tom O’s comments/questions.”

    Correction

    I should have said that Rev Bob has NOT overwhelmingly answer Tom O’s comments/questions.

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