Christians

Date: June 23, 2018 at 4:56:45 PM MDT

 

Only fools think we’re not a Christian nation.  When is little Mikey going to quit whining?  Tip: the world will never be as you want it.  LMAO!  Continue wasting your time.  LMAO! 
(name withheld

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere
Dear (name withheld),
It is fact, history & law we are a secular republic established by a secular constitution with a secular government and secular military. Please go to www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org and click on the  “American Independence – A Realistic Retrospective” article for enlightenment.
 
Unqualified history deniers & revisionists such as yourself with self-serving sectarian agendas intentionally ignore & deceitfully dispute the factual, historical & lawful truths. You are entitled to your ill-conceived opinion, but never to your own facts, history, law & truth.
 
Willful ignorance is difficult to dissuade when infected with apathy, acrimony or arrogance. We earnestly endeavor, however, to educate the uniformed & misinformed.
 
The 55,000+ military members, veterans & civilian employees (96% of whom are Christians) who requested our assistance in protecting their constitutional right to religious freedom do not consider themselves to be fools & the MRFF does not consider them to be fools. The MRFF proudly serves them & will continue to do so as long as our secular US Constitution provides the historic trinity of religious liberties (freedom from religion, freedom of religion, and freedom for religious speech). Neither our military clients nor the MRFF consider their individual liberty as Americans to be a laughing matter.
 
Patriotically Yours,
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam)
MRFF Advisory Board Member
Retired US judge, retired trial lawyer & Texas rancher

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Joan Slish
Dear (name withheld),

As an Advisory Board Member with MRFF I’m more than happy to waste my time in showing you the facts that have been sorely missing in your education concerning the founding of America.

 

Mikey and MRFF are neither an atheist organization nor are we anti-Christian. Mikey is Jewish (and prays to the same Father we do 3 times a day) and 80% of the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters (415 in total) of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) are Christians. In fact, 96% of our 55,000+ soldier clients are mainline Christians and we fight for them more than any other belief or non-belief.

 

We also have many distinguished and honorable military members on our Board and Advisory Board whom we rely on for their expertise on religion in the military.

https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/foundation-voices/

 

Check out our Mission statement.

https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/our-mission/

 

You have it all wrong.

When was the country we now know as the United States first settled?

If you said 1620 for the Pilgrims you are way off.

“The country we now know as the United States”, which I will call America for the rest of this post, was first settled by Asians thousands of years ago. When the Pilgrims landed, America already had millions of people. Like, say, Squanto, who taught them how to live in America.

The Pilgrims were not even the first white people. There were white people already living in:

  • Albany, New York
  • Sante Fe, New Mexico
  • St Augustine, Florida
  • Jamestown, Virginia
  • San Juan, Puerto Rico

There were already Jews in New Mexico, Filipinos had already arrived in California and there were blacks living in Virginia, Florida and Puerto Rico. People who would become Chicanos were already in the south-west. All here before the Pilgrims came over on the Mayflower.

In Canada, just so you know, there white people already living in Nova Scotia and Quebec and English-speaking people in Newfoundland.

If you look at the European settlement of America in the 1610s and 1620s, the Pilgrims do not stick out:

  • 1610 – Kecoughtan, Virginia – English
  • 1610 – Santa Fe – Spanish
  • 1615 – Fort Nassau – Dutch
  • 1620 – Plymouth Colony – English
  • 1622 – Province of Maine – English
  • 1623 – Portsmouth – English
  • 1623 – Stage Point – English
  • 1623 – Dover – English
  • 1623 – Pannaway – English
  • 1623 – New Castle – English
  • 1623 – Fort Nassau – Dutch
  • 1624 – Governors Island – Dutch
  • 1625 – New Amsterdam – Dutch
  • 1626 – Salem – English

Why do we go back to 1620? Thanksgiving and the false narrative about it.

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/america-did-not-start-with-the-pilgrims/

 

It is sad and it is so wrong that some people have a revisionist mentality to believe that America was built on Christian principles. Morals are universal no matter what religion you follow. I know atheists who have the same fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control… ‘Galatians 25:22-23) placed upon their hearts and live it better than the Christians do.

 

Here’s the backdrop for the First Amendment of the Constitution. This is a brief summary and I suggest you research the historical facts listed here.

When Virginia was founded it established the Anglican Church as the state’s official religion based on the state sponsored Church of England. In order to hold any official position in the Virginia government you must be a member of the Anglican Church.

 

All citizens of Virginia, regardless of their religious affiliation, had to pay taxes to support the Anglican churches throughout the state. The Quakers, Baptists, Presbyterians and Methodists fought this by petitions but were ignored.

 

Jefferson felt that to make anyone pay a tax to support the Anglican Church or any church was wrong and in 1777 penned the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. After becoming Governor of Virginia in 1779, he brought the bill – known as Bill No. 82 – before the Virginia Assembly. It didn’t become law until 1785.

 

The following paragraph from the Virginia Statute is the basis for the First Amendment. It didn’t need this whole paragraph written out in the amendment because the people of that time understood what it meant.

 

“We the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.”

This bill gave the people freedom FROM religion in all aspects of their lives. No longer were they forced to attend religious services, pay taxes to the state to fund the state sanctioned religion or kept from holding a job in the government.

 

In his Notes on Virginia (1782), Jefferson wrote: “Millions of innocent men, women and children since the introduction of Christianity have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned. Yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. . .”

 

The Treaty of Tripoli was signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796.It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797; a mere 8 years since our Constitution went into effect. If what was written was wrong in anyway, there would have been uproar. But, it passed unanimously and confirmed that America was not founded on Christianity.

Treaty of Tripoli:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The Constitution reflects our founder’s views of a secular government protecting the freedom of any belief or unbelief.

 

The historian, Robert Middlekauff, observed, “The idea that the Constitution expressed a moral view seems absurd. There were no genuine evangelicals in the Convention, and there were no heated declarations of Christian piety.”

 

“The Salem witchcraft was the rock on which the theocracy shattered”. George Lincoln Burr (1857 – 1938), Professor of History and Librarian at Cornell University

 

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”

Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion” 

“Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”

James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, EcclesiasticalEndowments

“God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”
Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”

James Madison 1785 Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments

 

“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

 

The Unites States is not a theocracy and according to our Founding Fathers the Constitution is not based on Christianity or biblical law.

 

As defenders of the Constitution we fight for the separation of church and state.

 

“…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” (Article I, III)

This means that from the President to Congress to the military – no one’s job is based on their religion.

 

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (Establishment Clause), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (Free Exercise Clause).”(First Amendment)

 

The Establishment Clause means that you cannot favor one religion over another even though it is in the majority. This clause respects the RIGHTS of all religions. Our military is SECULAR and there are people of other faiths that don the uniform that love this country.

 

The Free Exercise Clause (which is subservient to the Establishment Clause) means that our soldiers are free to exercise any religion they want or no religion at all but cannot elevate one God above others.

 

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.” Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320.

 

This is his second known use of the term “wall of separation,” here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter.

 

This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause.

 

“Jefferson’s concept of “separation of church and state” first became a part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878). In that case, the court examined the history of religious liberty in the US, determining that while the constitution guarantees religious freedom, “The word ‘religion’ is not defined in the Constitution. We must go elsewhere, therefore, to ascertain its meaning and nowhere more appropriately, we think, than to the history of the times in the midst of which the provision was adopted.” The court found that the leaders in advocating and formulating the constitutional guarantee of religious liberty were James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Quoting the “separation” paragraph from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, the court concluded that, “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.

In 1878 “separation of church and state” became part of the Establishment Clause bylaw.

 

The Supreme Court heard the Lemon v. Kurtzman case in 1971 and ruled in favor of the Establishment Clause.

 

Subsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the Lemon Test:

 

Government action violates the Establishment Clause unless it:
1. has a significant secular (i.e., non-religious) purpose,
2. does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion
3. does not foster excessive entanglement between government and religion

 

Parker v. Levy:

“This Court has long recognized that the military is, by necessity, a specialized society separate from civilian society… While the members of the military are not excluded from the protection granted by the First Amendment, the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections. … The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it… Speech [in any form] that is protected in the civil population may nonetheless undermine the effectiveness of response to command.  If it does, it is constitutionally unprotected.” (Emphasis added) Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 1974

 

AFI (Air Force Instruction) 1-1, Section 2.12:

2.12. Balance of Free Exercise of Religion and Establishment Clause. Leaders at all levels must balance constitutional protections for their own free exercise of religion, including individual expressions of religious beliefs, and the constitutional prohibition against governmental establishment of religion. They must ensure their words and actions cannot reasonably be construed to be officially endorsing or disapproving of, or extending preferential treatment for any faith, belief, or absence of belief.

 

To place the Christian god above all others is in violation of Reynolds v. U.S., Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Lemon Test, Parker v. Levy and AFI 1-1, Section 2.12

 

You are going to have to give an accounting for this anti-Semitic email before Jesus who was born, raised, preached and died a Jew.

 

“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Matthew 12:36-37

 

It looks like the laugh is on you.

 

Joan Slish

MRFF Advisory Board Member


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

Hi (name withheld),

Like many of the Christian supremacists we hear from, you’re a little hard to follow.

Neither Mikey nor anyone else here is whining, what we’re doing is protecting the Constitution and

ensuring that the military, which is still part of the government, obeys the law. That means we
don’t allow haters like Jeffress to pollute the military or any other part of the government with their
claim that there is only one true religion and that they represent it. He, and apparently you, are welcome
to your belief, but you can’t shove it down the throat of the women and men in the military.

“Only fools think we’re not a Christian nation,” you say? Let me introduce you to a couple of

fools:

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

–        George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia (1789)

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

–        Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr (1787)

“In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

–        Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

–        Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man (1791)

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”

–        Roger Sherman, Congress (1789)

“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”

–        Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanack (1758)

“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people build a wall of separation between Church & State.”

–        Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptists (1802)

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”

–        Thomas Paine, The American Crisis No. V (1776)


Note: You can read Paine’s whole pamphlet, where he expresses his atheistic beliefs, here.

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”

–        Thomas Jefferson, A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1779)

“Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects.”

–        James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr. (1774)

“There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.”

–        George Washington, address to Congress (1790)

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

–        James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

 

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


 

 

 

 

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