Reefs

From: (name withheld)
Date: December 10, 2021 at 10:22:28 AM MST
To:[email protected]
Subject:Reefs

You may also be a veteran but just like every group we have our bad actors and idiots and yes you are one of them.

Our country was founded on Christian principals if you don’t like it leave.

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Supporter Rabbi Joel Schwartzman

On Dec 10, 2021, at 10:50 AM, Rabbi Joel Schwartzman wrote:

Dear (name withheld):

I see that you think that Mikey Weinstein should leave the United States.  Given that you think that this is a Christian nation, I think that you ought to be the one to leave.  After all, given all that we know about the Constitution, you obviously are in the wrong country.  You ought to figure out where your Christian country is and move there.

Oh, and have a Merry and Blessed Christmas wherever it is you wind up.

Joel R. Schwartzman

Ch, Col, (Ret) USAF,

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From: (name withheld)
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 10:53 AM
To: Rabbi Joel Schwartzman
Subject: RE: No, You Leave

Can’t do that unlike you idiots I have a job that’s actually important to the defense of this country.

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Supporter Rabbi Joel Schwartzman

On Dec 10, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Rabbi Joel Schwartzman wrote:

No one is irreplaceable.  Given your abilities to spell “wreaths” as “reefs,” I sure hope that your field involves more math than English.  In any case, were you to emigrate to your true homeland, I’m sure that we could find a replacement for you.

That said, how nice to finally have an email writer whose email address is real.   Most of the screed and filth we receive comes from faux email addresses and our reponses just bounce back t us.

I hope that you’re writing on your lunch break and not wasting value time for which you’re being paid.

Keep up the good work of defending America…until you don’t anymore.

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 10, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Martin France wrote:

(name withheld), thanks for your grammatically challenged note.  This nation’s foundation is the Constitution.  And, though most (but not all) of the Founding Fathers were Christian, they also had the foresight to prohibit the establishment of any state religion and also prevent the use of any religious test for those holding office or commission.  They did this because they were witnesses to the religious bias, wars, and division in Europe in those days–the reasons they and their ancestors had fled the continent and come to America in the first place.  You can look this up.  It is a founding PRINCIPLE of our nation.  I don’t have to like Christianity, embrace it, or practice it to STAY in this country, or even to serve.  You see, I am not a Christian, but managed to serve on active duty for more than 37 years, despite significant discrimination and acts of bias committed against me personally and members of my family.  As an Advisory Board member of the MRFF, I’ve committed my time to helping make sure that all members of the military can serve honorably regardless of their religious perspective.  That means that Christians are very welcome to serve as well.  In fact, the overwhelming number of our clients are Christians.I presume that your incoherent rambling and accusations against Mr Weinstein are because of the recent Wreaths Across America kerfuffle.  Actually, it’s not that recent, though, as we have been receiving complaints about this organization and its activities from many service members for over a decade.  I’d like to try to educate you on this matter by attaching some responses that I’ve sent recently to others with similar–but much better expressed–concerns,  I don’t know if you’re a veteran.  But, if you are, might I suggest you avail yourself of the GI Bill and its benefits for your own education and improvement.  Writing is a skill well-worth learning.  
Sincerely,Marty France, PhDBrigadier General, USAF (Retired)MRFF ADvisory Board Member

Now, please see below:
(name withheld),It’s not an issue with you and other Christians because for you it’s the “normal” majority world in which you live every day of your life.  As Mao said, the fish don’t notice the water.  As someone who is not Christian, I notice the bias against non-Christians every day of my life. It affects my family and friends.  I do not want Christian symbology put on my grave and I don’t want anyone just assuming that because I served in the military, they are free to put whatever the heck they want on my grave just because THEY think it honors me or looks good for a photo.  You like wreaths.  Good for you.  What if I like something that you find offensive, but I think honors people?  Can I spray paint it on public buildings?  On tombstones?  On property that doesn’t belong to me?  For just ONCE, try to see the world from the standpoint of someone who believes and looks different from you.  Black Americans perceive much of the world differently from me (I’m of European descent).  LGBTQ+ folks also have different experiences.  Non-Christians don’t want to be Christians–they want to live their lives without someone assuming something that is incorrect or that we want to be like you.  And why are we spending $25M per year on wreaths (that accomplish nothing tangible, but instead just make for nice–to some–photos) instead of channeling that money to a cause that can help veterans and the survivors of our fallen?  Mulch or money?  I’ll take money and aid.  You can console yourself with pretty postcards–while 22 veterans per day are committing suicide.  You can decorate their graves with wreaths.  I’ll give my money to organizations like “22 Until None,” that actually help people and don’t line the pockets of a company that sells mulch–I mean wreaths.
I wish you a superb solstice,Marty FranceBrigadier General, USAF (Retired)MRFF Advisory Board Member

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:43 AM (name withheld) wrote:
Martin, thank you for your email.  And I will respond by commenting that there are so many of our fallen heroes that don’t have family to opt-in or out of the celebration of life at this wonderful time of year.  I have not been able to go to my parent’s grave for four years and am deeply grateful for someone to honor and say his name out loud.  My father was being promoted to General when he decided to retire from the USAF. As he would always say to me, my brothers,  and his team…don’t make something into an issue when in reality it is not.  Thank you again for your thoughts.

Cheers,(name withheld)

Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 7:20 AM Martin France wrote:

(name withheld), thanks for your kind and considerate commentary on this issue and MRFF’s valuable work to defend our fallen heroes and their survivors from being taken advantage of by a company that does little more than decorate graves–without truly helping the plight of veterans.  Let me share a response I sent to another writer, as it might illuminate the position with you a little more.  Here you go.  Check out the link, too.  

On Dec 6, 2021, at 9:32 PM, Martin France Mr XXXX,I occasionally answer emails like yours for the MRFF in my role as an Advisory Board Member.  First, let me thank you and your family for your dad’s service with the 29th ID.  I’ve been to the Omaha Beach and the US cemetery there twice and both times it was among the most moving experiences of my life.  Once, I was even honored to fold the American flag at retreat as, at the time, an active duty Air Force colonel (I served 37-plus years on active duty).  While many agree that covering every grave at an American veteran’s cemetery with Christmas wreaths may look beautiful, I disagree with your point that ALL of the surviving family members feel the same way.  Mine wouldn’t.  I’m not a Christian.  Not all of those buried in Arlington or on the bluff above Omaha Beach are Christians who observe Christmas, you see.  While I don’t doubt the sincerity of those who buy and place the wreathes, I also think it presumptuous of anyone to just assume that the surviving family members of all those fallen heroes are Christians who want a wreath on their hero’s grave.  What about our Jewish heroes?  Muslims?  Atheists? Others?The MRFF is not anti-wreath.  We are anti-presumption.  We think that anyone who wants a wreath on their loved one’s grave should be able to opt-in and have a wreath put on their grave–or be free to put one there themselves.  We don’t think it should be automatic.  Families can certainly opt in, but the burden shouldn’t be on THEM to opt out.  Remember, one person’s decorating is another person’s vandalism.  If you were Christian, would you want your loved one’s grave and all those in the cemetery decorated with a Muslim symbol by well-meaning donors?  How about a Menorah?  A Confederate Flag?  Something you don’t personally like?  Again, our point is that the mass decoration of a cemetery for veterans, on government property, done by a tightly intertwined for-profit company that established a charity through which people give money to buy wreaths out of their patriotism and goodwill and then funnel that money back into their own company to the tune of millions of dollars per year, shouldn’t be sanctioned and allowed for ALL graves.  If you want to pay a company to put a wreath on your father’s grave, that’s your right.  You do not, on the other hand, have the right to put a decoration of YOUR choosing on the grave of my dad, who is also a veteran–not without first gaining my (and my brother’s) approval.  Do you get that?Just because it makes YOU feel good and YOU think it looks pretty, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do for EVERY grave.That’s our point.  You may not like it, but if you just try to think about it a little from someone else’s perspective–someone who may not share your religious perspective–you may be able to understand.  While we share a common love for our country and took an oath to support and defend our Constitution, we don’t ALL like wreaths and the way this company profits from this program.Thanks again for your letter.  We’re not pathetic.  We’re empathetic–even to those that don’t share the same religious perspective.Sincerely,Marty France, PhDBrigadier General, USAF (Retired)MRFF Advisory Board Member

From: (name withheld)
Subject: I Want to Thank You
Date: December 8, 2021 at 11:08:39 PM MST
To: [email protected]

Dear Sir:
My father was not very religious and didn’t care much for going to church or practicing any particular religion.  Thank you for reminding me how great my dad was and how much he loved this country.   He also loved the Wreaths being placed on the graves of his fallen brothers which many of them were of different religious backgrounds.  Actually they all loved it.   A wreath is a sign of love and respect and is an  eternal never ending ring which connects as all as one. Wreaths are a universal message of hope not just Christian.  Christmas is not just a Christian celebration.  It is a universal celebration of family and the gift of life.  All of my Jewish and non-Christian friends and family celebrate Christmas for joy and peace on earth and not for the birth of Christ.

How many of our fallen hero’s never have anything placed on their grave or a volunteer say their name out load?   Does your organization go and stand at each grave at Arlington and other cemeteries and say their name out loud and place something on each grave?

My mom and dad are buried at Arlington and I guarantee they lived a much happier life than most of the individuals in the articles I read on your site.  I am deeply grateful for those that put wreaths on my parents grave and say their name out loud to celebrate peace, love, and gratitude.

Hate gets us no where only pain. Good luck to you as you find your true self and your true meaning in this life.

I am also deeply grateful to your organization to motivate me to do my part by going and laying wreaths and giving thanks to those that served our great nation.  
Sincerely,

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 10, 2021, at 12:11 PM, John Compere wrote:

Your clueless condemnation of a fellow American you do not even know is exceeded only by your insolent ignorance about our nation’s founding.
For your enlightenment, the US Constitution is our original founding, establishment & governing document.  Its Preamble states 6 strictly secular (non-religious) reasons our nation was founded by & for “We the People”. The Constitution is secular, establishes our secular democratic government & contains no reference to a deity, religion or scripture. The Constitution (Article VI [3] & 1st Amendment) lawfully separates religion & government (aka: separation of church & state) & prohibits our government from establishing, enforcing or endorsing a religion. Our American Founders also proclaimed to the world – “The United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion” in an international legal document negotiated during 1st President George Washington’s administration, unanimously ratified by the Senate & signed by 2nd President John Adams (1971 Treaty of Tripoli in the public records). Even Jesus separated government & religion (Matthew 22:21; Mark 12:17). Case closed.
Also for your enlightenment, we were the 1st nation in history independently established without acknowledging any higher authority (emperor, monarch, dictator, deity, religion, scripture, etc.) other than the people & our government. History documents there were no public prayers opening or closing the 116 day Constitution Convention. Founder James Madison reminded the delegates of the secular purpose – “This is derived from the superior power of the people.” Less than 20% of American colonists belonged to religion establishments in 1776 & less than 50% of Americans belong to a church, synagogue, mosque or temple today (Gallup).
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (composed of 85% Christians)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Dec 10, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Mike MFO wrote:
(name withheld),
Yes, we do in this world have our idiots and clowns and jerks and general know-nothings. How do you score yourself?
Actually, our country was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment. Look it up. Enlightenment is something you could use.
Assuming, as you arrogantly do, that Christian principles underlie everything of meaning in our country, how do you account for the fact that the Founders specifically called for a separation between Church and State? I’ll bet that’s a tough one for you; you who have the audacity to suggest that one who doesn’t see things the way you do must leave.
You are pathetic, Douglas. Your lack of understanding is dwarfed by your arrogant self-satisfaction.
Mike Farrell(MRFF Board  of Advisors)

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