Wreathes

From: (name withheld)
Subject: Wreathes
Date: December 6, 2021 at 7:39:36 PM MST
To: [email protected]

My Dad landed on Omaha Beach 6/6/44. He was in the 29th Infantry Division. He survived the war, miraculous, but later perished from cancer. He is interred in a section of a private cemetery where he is only surrounded by other service members and their wives. Wreathes Across America has honored these, often times forgotten, hero’s by placing wreaths on their graves. When I saw this it brought tears to my eyes. It indicated to me that America hadn’t forgotten these heros. I’m sure that all surviving family members feel the same. I find it nothing less than shameful that you folks take issue with this measure of remembrance, gratitude, kindness, and generosity. You are pathetic.

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 6, 2021, at 9:32 PM, Martin France wrote:

(name withheld),

I occasionally answer emails like yours for the MRFF in my role as an Advisory Board Member.  First, let me thank you and your family for your dad’s service with the 29th ID.  I’ve been to the Omaha Beach and the US cemetery there twice and both times it was among the most moving experiences of my life.  Once, I was even honored to fold the American flag at retreat as, at the time, an active duty Air Force colonel (I served 37-plus years on active duty).  While many agree that covering every grave at an American veterans’ cemetery with Christmas wreaths may look beautiful, I disagree with your point that ALL of the surviving family members feel the same way.  Mine wouldn’t.  I’m not a Christian.  Not all of those buried in Arlington or on the bluff above Omaha Beach are Christians who observe Christmas, you see.  While I don’t doubt the sincerity of those who buy and place the wreathes, I also think it presumptuous of anyone to just assume that the surviving family members of all those fallen heroes are Christians who want a wreath on their hero’s grave.  What about our Jewish heroes?  Muslims?  Atheists? Others?The MRFF is not anti-wreath.  We are anti-presumption.  We think that anyone who wants a wreath on their loved one’s grave should be able to opt-in and have a wreath put on their grave–or be free to put one there themselves.  We don’t think it should be automatic.  Families can certainly opt in, but the burden shouldn’t be on THEM to opt out.  Remember, one person’s decorating is another person’s vandalism.  If you were Christian, would you want your loved one’s grave, and all those in the cemetery in which they are interred, decorated with a Muslim symbol by well-meaning Islamic donors?  How about a Menorah?  A Confederate Flag?  Something you don’t personally like?  Again, our point is that the mass decoration of a cemetery for veterans, on government property, done by a tightly intertwined for-profit company that established a charity through which people give money to buy wreaths out of their patriotism and goodwill and then funnel that money back into their own company to the tune of millions of dollars per year, shouldn’t be sanctioned and allowed for ALL graves.  If you want to pay a company to put a wreath on your father’s grave, that’s your right.  You do not, on the other hand, have the right to put a decoration of YOUR choosing on the grave of my dad, who is also a veteran–not without first gaining my (and my brother’s) approval.  Do you get that?Just because it makes YOU feel good and YOU think it looks pretty, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do for EVERY grave.That’s our point.  You may not like it, but if you just try to think about it a little from someone else’s perspective–someone who may not share your religious perspective–you may be able to understand.  While we share a common love for our country and took an oath to support and defend our Constitution, we don’t ALL like wreaths and the way this company profits from this program.Thanks again for your letter.  We’re not pathetic.  We’re empathetic–even to those that don’t share the same religious perspective

.Sincerely,Marty France, PhDBrigadier General, USAF (Retired)MRFF Advisory Board Member

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Dec 6, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Mike wrote:

Hi (name withheld),
You’re awfully quick to judge. You’re also quick to assume that “all surviving family members,’ as you put it, “feel the same.”
Gestures to honor heroes are lovely things, of course, but when they bespeak a particular religious faith and assume they are welcome, there is more than a touch of thoughtlessness involved; perhaps even arrogance.

In your Dad’s case, you appreciated it. That’s fine. Family members of those of other faiths or belief systems may not. The casual insensitivity of such an act is not unknown in our society, of course, but it’s sad to see your willingness to defend it with such self assurance.

It may surprise you to hear that you don’t speak for “all surviving family members,” but then, there’s a price paid for insensitivity.
Mike Farrell(MRFF Board of Advisors)

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Response from MRFF Addvisory Board Member James Currie

(name withheld):

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation honors your father’s World War II service, as it does the service of every man and woman who has worn the uniform of our great country. I would myself thank your father for his service were he alive to receive such thanks. My father, too, was a World War II combat veteran. He was the pilot of a B-17 bomber that was shot down on a raid against the oil fields and refineries of Ploesti, Romania, in February 1944. He is my personal hero.

I have been asked by MRFF to respond to your recent email. You have obviously been given bogus information about the mission and activities of MRFF.  This Foundation does not object to honoring those who have served our country. What it objects to is the placing of sectarian religious symbols—and make no mistake, a Christmas wreath is a Christian symbol, and has been such for hundreds of years—on the graves of servicemembers who may not have embraced the Christian religion. MRFF is not opposed to religion. It is opposed to forcing religion and religious symbols on anyone, whether that forcing is being done by members of the military chain of command or a private entity like Wreaths Across America. You do not indicate the religious beliefs your father had. If he was of the Christian faith, and you all had requested that someone place a Christian wreath on his grave, then MRFF would pose no objection. But, suppose your father had been Jewish, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Confucian, any one of the 4000 or so other religions that exist in our world today. Would you have been pleased to see a Christian symbol on his grave? I suspect not, and that is the essence of the problem created when some person or group takes it upon themselves to place on a given grave a specific, sectarian religious symbol, which may not encompass or represent the religious beliefs of the person whose grave is being decorated. In such a case, the veteran’s memory is insulted, not honored.

If you visit any VA cemetery, you will immediately notice that the tombstones are quite individualized with reference to the religious affiliation of the deceased veteran. There are, as of today, 74 officially-designated religious symbols that are allowed on tombstones in VA cemeteries, and more such symbols are added as religious groups petition for them. The U.S. Government recognizes that one symbol does not fit everyone.  There is even an Atheist symbol for those servicemembers who do not profess belief in any deity whatsoever. So, I hope you can see, Mr. Phillips, that the MRFF’s objection to placing Christian wreaths willy-nilly on everyone’s grave is not a matter of disrespect for the veteran. It is a matter of the ultimate of respect for them, respect for whatever their spiritual belief or lack of spiritual belief entailed. That is what honoring America’s veterans truly means.

Col. James T. Currie, USA (Ret.), Ph.D.Board of Advisors, Military Religious Freedom FoundationOrdained Elder, Presbyterian Church (USA)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 8, 2021, at 9:12 PM, Martin France wrote:

(name withheld),

In response to your note, I’d like to forward a response I gave to another writer.  I think it should address your thoughts as well–the points you bring up are quite similar.  Let me know if you have any questions. 

Mr XXXX,I occasionally answer emails like yours for the MRFF in my role as an Advisory Board Member.  First, let me thank you and your family for your dad’s service with the 29th ID.  I’ve been to the Omaha Beach and the US cemetery there twice and both times it was among the most moving experiences of my life.  Once, I was even honored to fold the American flag at retreat as, at the time, an active duty Air Force colonel (I served 37-plus years on active duty).  While many agree that covering every grave at an American veteran’s cemetery with Christmas wreaths may look beautiful, I disagree with your point that ALL of the surviving family members feel the same way.  Mine wouldn’t.  I’m not a Christian.  Not all of those buried in Arlington or on the bluff above Omaha Beach are Christians who observe Christmas, you see.  While I don’t doubt the sincerity of those who buy and place the wreathes, I also think it presumptuous of anyone to just assume that the surviving family members of all those fallen heroes are Christians who want a wreath on their hero’s grave.  What about our Jewish heroes?  Muslims?  Atheists? Others?The MRFF is not anti-wreath.  We are anti-presumption.  We think that anyone who wants a wreath on their loved one’s grave should be able to opt-in and have a wreath put on their grave–or be free to put one there themselves.  We don’t think it should be automatic.  Family’s can certainly opt in, but the burden shouldn’t be on THEM to opt out.  Remember, one person’s decorating is another person’s vandalism.  If you were Christian, would you want your loved one’s grave and all those in the cemetery decorated with a Muslim symbol by well-meaning donors?  How about a Menorah?  A Confederate Flag?  Something you don’t personally like?  Again, our point is that the mass decoration of a cemetery for veterans, on government property, done by a tightly intertwined for-profit company that established a charity through which people give money to buy wreaths out of their patriotism and goodwill and then funnel that money back into their own company to the tune of millions of dollars per year, shouldn’t be sanctioned and allowed for ALL graves.  If you want to pay a company to put a wreath on your father’s grave, that’s your right.  You do not, on the other hand, have the right to put a decoration of YOUR choosing on the grave of my dad, who is also a veteran–not without first gaining my (and my brother’s) approval.  Do you get that?Just because it makes YOU feel good and YOU think it looks pretty, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do for EVERY grave.That’s our point.  You may not like it, but if you just try to think about it a little from someone else’s perspective–someone who may not share your religious perspective–you may be able to understand.  While we share a common love for our country and took an oath to support and defend our Constitution, we don’t ALL like wreaths and the way this company profits from this program.Thanks again for your letter.  We’re not pathetic.  We’re empathetic–even to those that don’t share the same religious perspective.

Sincerely,Marty France, PhDBrigadier General,

USAF (Retired)MRFF Advisory Board Member

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From: (name withheld)
Subject: Wreaths
Date: December 8, 2021 at 8:54:13 PM MST
To: “[email protected]”

Not sure just what you are trying to do other than to draw attention to your group by knocking the tradition of wreath laying on graves during the holidays.  Every male in my family since 1742 has fought first for this land and later for this country.  Over 50 gave their lives here and abroad.  Many of the graves have been lost over the years and generations.  The laying of the wreaths is a service which gives peace to many.  How it could be considered an “atrocity” is beyond my comprehension.  If you really cared I am sure you could contact the group with a list of graves which the families don’t want the wreaths placed.  Oh wait, that would require you to actually have a basis for your lame convictions rather than just a personal opinion with no statistical basis in fact.  People like you abuse the freedom my family fought and died to give you.  You should be ashamed of yourself. 

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Dec 9, 2021, at 12:31 AM, Mike wrote:

Hi (name withheld),
Your idea has merit, but don’t you think it would be more appropriate to have those who choose to lay the wreaths bother to find out which families would be happy to have them and which ones would not? Oh wait, that would require you to actually have a basis for your lame action rather than just a personal opinion with no basis in fact.

The concern here is the arrogance associated with the assumption that everyone is happy to have her or his loved  one’s grave decorated with a Christian symbol.

You and others expressing such high dudgeon about an objection might stop to consider how you’d feel if people of another belief system decided to blanket all the graves with a symbol representing a faith not your own.
Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)

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Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 9, 2021, at 8:51 AM, John Compere wrote:

Please be advised some families of deceased military veterans do not want a religious organization promoting its religion version & marketing its religious organization by placing its religious symbols on the graves of their deceased loved ones without permission. Those families consider it to be an uninvited & unwanted intrusion on the personal burial site of their deceased American veterans. Any organization presumptuously putting & publicizing its promotional products on the sacred resting spot of deceased military veterans should have the decency to seek & obtain permission from the families involved. It is not the responsibility of others to do it for them.
When requested, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (composed of 85% Christians) represents the religious freedom right of those families to object & prevent such thoughtless trespassing on the graves of their deceased military veterans. We do so because we respect the wishes of those families & are not ashamed of our support for them. For more information, please see militaryreligiousfreedom.org.

Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation

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Response from MRFF Supporter Rabbi Joel Schwartzman

On Dec 9, 2021, at 9:04 AM, Rabbi Joel Schwartzman wrote:

Dear (name withheld): It is the blanket nature of the project which assumes a symbology which I am certain would offend the families of those not wishing to be so treated. I, whose final repose will be in Arlington, would be utterly appalled were my grave to be so treated.  I say this because, as a former Jewish chaplain in the United States Air Force, I and my fellow Jews were so often excluded, either willfully or not, by non-Jewish chaplains who just assumed the universality of their beliefs and stances. I found that repugnant although I rarely challenged most of this behavior.  I also understand that throughout America, many people, Christians as well as non-Christians celebrate a secular Christmas. I also know that this custom disturbs many Christians for whom this holiday is truly a holy day which celebrates the birth of Jesus.  That people in this country have secularized their sacred celebration deeply offends them. The battles over Christmas which occur annually at this time of year involve sensitivities which, for the rest of the year, aren’t so much assaulted.  The MRFF is attempting to preserve the rights and dignities of those who would not have wanted their graves decorated in the fashion of wreath-laying.  Their families’ sensitivities also need to be taken into account.  That you and yours would welcome this act isn’t the point here, although it wouldn’t take an organization to take the responsibility for laying wreaths on one’s loved ones’ graves.  Individuals could do that.  However, it is Jewish custom to mark one’s visit to a dear one’s grave by placing a stone or stones on the marker not a wreath.   Whatever the wreath may symbolize to you, it is definitely not one that resonates to me as a Jew or a rabbi.  There are certainly those whose character is more religious who see it as a purely Christian symbol.  For that reason alone, those who indeed, intend to do good deeds ought to be taking into account the religious sensitivities of all those buried at our national cemeteries.  They, too, died for this country.  Putting American flags on the grave is appropriate.  Placing wreaths, in my opinion, is definitely not. I wish you happy holidays however you wish to celebrate or observe them. 

Rabbi Joel R. Schwartzman,Ch, Col (Ret), USAF

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From: (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Wreaths
Date: December 9, 2021 at 2:10:29 PM MST
To: Michael L Weinstein <[email protected]>

Mr. Weinstein,

I received your email last night after speaking with you on the phone.  I want you to know that I have read the emails you sent me with great care.  After careful consideration and empathizing with you and your organization’s position, I feel compelled to express my concerns.  As I honor and respect the mission of your organization I disagree with your course of action against the Wreaths Across America project.  You state in your email that “MRFF is not anti-wreath” but “anti-presumption.”  Would it not be presumptuous to presume that an intended gesture of good will would not be welcome by the deceased veterans or their families?  I’m sorry but the presumption goes both ways.  I would also urge you to consider the logistical challenge of attempting to locate every responsible living family member for those buried veterans just to ask them if it’s okay to lay a wreath on their grave during the holiday season, only to have them give their blessing  (now I know I’m presuming but I think a very safe one).  I think this practical aspect should be a serious consideration and a point of empathy on MRFF’s behalf.  For surely to administer such a logistical nightmare would put at risk the entire project.  But I think the most logical aspect to all of this is simply that if a family member decides to visit their loved ones grave site and they see a wreath, and they don’t want it there, all they have to do is remove it.  It’s that simple, no harm no foul.   As a former military officer I know you understand that one must choose their battles carefully.  When you consider the intent behind such a project that promotes such a gesture of good will, it seems silly to me to think this is a battle that needs to be fought.  Besides, just because it can be fought doesn’t mean it should.  Our world needs more good will, not less of it.  So I urge you to please reconsider your efforts and focus on things that are far more important.

Sincerely,

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 9, 2021, at 2:39 PM, Martin France wrote:

(name withheld), I get your point about presumption–it would be impossible to track down all of the peoples’ families in a cemetery.  Let’s talk about this, though.  A veterans’ or national cemetery is usually on publicly owned ground.  What rights do we have to decorate public grounds–especially if we have no direct connection to the person buried in the plot?  National parks are public grounds, but I don’t have the right to decorate them (even temporarily) as I so choose.  You want to take pretty pictures with wreaths?  Find an empty field and take your pictures with all of the wreaths you want.  You do not have the right to use our war dead as props for your photos just to make you or anyone feel good about themselves.There are places where some decorations are traditionally left:  The Vietnam Memorial is decorated daily by well-wishers. BUT, in that case, the National Park Service picks up ALL of the decorations daily, catalogs them, and stores most non-perishable decorations at considerable expense. That would not be practical at every veterans’ cemetery.  At the Vietnam Memorial, with the exception of flowers, most of the things left are notes or personal effects for one specific person, too.  People are not decorating every name.I also understand why you might suggest that the MRFF pick a different fight.  And, I’ll even stipulate that many of the folks involved are people of goodwill.  But, just as I don’t want someone baptizing me (or my ancestors) against my will, I don’t want someone spray-painting my house or business in a spirit of goodwill (but against my will), and I don’t want some stranger deciding for themselves (out of some sense of goodwill) what should and shouldn’t be placed upon the grave of one of my family’s veterans–or civilians.It’s very easy for you to think this is innocuous because you clearly like wreaths and think they mean good things and look nice.  That’s YOUR culture and background.  Not everyone agrees.  Many Jews do not want Christmas wreaths on the graves of their loved ones.  I doubt if Muslim families would like it.  I wouldn’t want it on my grave.American flags?  Sure–it can be safely assumed that if you are in a veterans’ cemetery, you defended America, so an AMERICAN flag is good.  What if the Daughters of the Confederacy just DECIDED out of goodwill that they’d put confederate battle flags on every grave in every veterans’ cemetery in the south?  Not so good.  The KKK?  Not good.  American Nazis?  Again, not good.The bottom line is that just as strangers shouldn’t decide the color of my casket, my headstone inscription, or where I’m buried or how MY house is painted or how I decorate my home–that’s my and my family’s responsibility–they shouldn’t just decide what religious or other decorations are on my grave.  Moreover, we shouldn’t be enabling an organization that reaps huge profits from this enterprise to turn this whole thing into a divisive narrative.  You want to help veterans’ and their next of kin?  THEN DO SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST SYMBOLIC.  Donate money to the Wounded Warrior Project or “22 Until None.”  Adding mulch to a cemetery does nothing to aid veterans’ families and just makes work for cemetery caretakers.It DOES matter to me.  You just PRESUMING that this isn’t important demonstrates you acceptance of Christian majority privilege–the same sense of privilege that leads to discrimination of all those that aren’t part of their tribe.  It leads to racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimation.If you like wreaths, then put them on the graves of your own damn family.  Leave my family and all others that you don’t know personally out of it.And thanks for your note.

Marty FranceBrigadier General, USAF (Retired) MRFF Advisory Board Member

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