Appaling
On Nov 30, 2023, at 5:02 PM, (name withheld) wrote:
Michael and staff, I just read a story about something so disgusting that your organization pushed for with apparently Chris Rodda leading the way. This was about the bible being removed from the missing man table. I can understand what you think your organization is fighting for but that’s not it. I am a veteran who does believe but also someone who doesn’t worship/go to church all the time. I guess you could say that I am the in between type person. But y’all having pushed to have that removed is a disservice to all of the men and women who have died for this country.
Y’all say that you are a veteran organization but really I don’t believe that you are. As a vet, we are supposed to protect freedoms. Your proper response to that should’ve been asking them to put in a second table without one. Because now all you have done is crap on every veteran and service member across this country who has and is currently serving.
You have violated the oath that military members take by suppressing the freedoms of those who are Christians that visit that facility.
You are a disgrace and need to stop imitating that you are a veteran organization.
(name withheld)
Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 6:11 PM Michael L Weinstein wrote:
….well hi there, (name withheld)….ohhhh, there IS a “disgrace” here, but it is NOT us but indeed YOU, sir…..you are surely entitled to your own wretchedly wrong opinions but NOT your own facts, brutha……read below and DO IT now, skippy!!…..and we’ll be ready to consider your fervent apology…oh, and I actually go by “Mikey”…..a veteran myself….
On Nov 30, 2023, at 5:19 PM, (name withheld) wrote:
That’s not even the article I saw. I don’t watch Fox News or any of those news organizations. It was an article that noted what the VA Facility director said directly.
Yeah, I’m not the one getting butthurt over a bible sitting on the missing man table. Which from my understanding sits at every single one of them across the country. I’ve never seen a table without one. You say my “wretchedly wrong opinion”, however opinions is just that people’s opinion. They are not wrong nor right. Just there opinion.
I didn’t state any facts at all. Just my thoughts and opinion about this organization. But by your reply, it just shows how disgraceful it really is.
Oh, your email and name states Michael which is why I properly addressed you like that.
But y’all do you and understand that not all veterans agree with you. Just like I know not all veterans agree with me. Y’all are just wrong on this right here.
Have a good one.
Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 6:24 PM Michael L Weinstein wrote:
Enjoy your parallax universe of idiocy, champ……..Mikey…(I’m pretty universally Mikey, bruh…..)
On Nov 30, 2023, at 5:27 PM, (name withheld) wrote:
Well then you might want to go after all of these places as well.
https://militaryreunionnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Basic-Missing-Man-POW.pdf
https://www.pow-miafamilies.org/missing-man-table-and-honors-ceremony.html
https://warmemorialcenter.org/missing-man-table/
That’s just a few who do put bibles on the tables. Just an FYI so you can go after them as well.
(name withheld)
Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 6:34 PM Michael L Weinstein wrote:
Hey, jack….you don’t seem quite capable of understanding the criticality of “time, place and manner”…..if the POW/MIA Table has a sectarian religious text on it (and, let’s face it it’s always pretty much a. Christian text) in a time, place and manner showing government buttressing (as here in a damn VA medical building) then it violates the Constitution and, as also here, the VA regs!!…if they stick it in a McDonalds et al we could NOT care less!!!!!….please do a little more research before you start throwing stones, imbecile!!….you see, Chris, education is THE key here!!…get more of it asap, tiny stone thrower……..Mikey
On Nov 30, 2023, at 5:36 PM, (name withheld) wrote:
The difference between me and you is I’m respectful, whereas you are not.
Have a good night.
Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
….NOPE!!…the difference is that you came out of the gate throwing shit at us, jack:
“You are a disgrace”
….you did that and not us!!!!……..looks like you can dish it out but can’t take it, snowflake boy….time for you to apologize…..have an EDUCATIONAL and APOLOGETIC NIGHT, (name withheld)!!! (oh and you misspelled “Appalling”….2 l’s bro…)
Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere
On Dec 1, 2023, at 12:40 PM, John Compere wrote:
(name withheld),
The purpose of the POW/MIA dinner table display is and has always been REMEMBRANCE (i.e. to leave a place at the dinner table for prisoners of war and those missing in action for when they return and to never forget them). The purpose is not now nor has it ever been about a specific religion. The display was created in 1967 by the “River Rats”, a group of American combat pilots from the Vietnam War, and did not include religious scripture. The American Legion has continued this tradition since 1985 and without religious scripture. Our POWs and MIAs are Americans of all faiths and beliefs – not just one religion. Those who attempt to publicly promote their religion on the displays disregard, disrespect and distract from the original purpose of REMEMBRANCE.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is an American non-profit civil rights advocacy organization for military personnel nominated 7 times for the Nobel Peace Prize and composed of 900 volunteer and paid staff of Americans (85% Christians). We have represented over 85,000 American military men and women (95% Christians) who have requested their right to religious freedom guaranteed them by the United States Constitution, Department of Defense directives, Armed Forces regulations and Department of Veterans Affairs directives be protected. We represent the religious freedom of all faiths and beliefs of present and past American military personnel when requested to do so by them. We will continue to do so with pride and patriotism.
Every member of the American military takes the sworn oath to support, defend and bear true faith and allegiance to the United States Constitution. Fidelity to the secular Constitution is the foundation of American military service. We are one nation under the Constitution and it is the Constitution in which we trust. The Constitution prohibits our government from establishing, enforcing or endorsing a religion and requires neutrality regarding religion.
Most sincerely,
John Compere
Brigadier General, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Dec 1, 2023, at 6:11 PM, Mike wrote:
Hi (name withheld),
It appears you’re a trifle confused. Maybe I can help.
It seems you’re upset about a couple of things, so let me take them one at a time.
First, it upsets you that the MRFF ‘celebrated’ the removal of the Bible from the POW/MIA table at a government-operated or facilitated veteran’s facility. Well, the article suggesting we ‘celebrated’ it came from MSNBC, not the MRFF, so you might consider spewing your outrage at MSNBC, not us.
That’s not to say we at the MRFF didn’t consider the event a victory. We did. It was a victory for the separation of church and state, a long-held but often misunderstood – and I should add often attacked by religious zealots like yourself – tenet preserving the freedom of religious or non-religious belief in the United States.
You see, we insisted that the Bible does not belong on the POW/MIA tables because its presence there implies promotion of a particular faith or belief system, which the government should not be involved in doing. The original POW/MIA tables, it might help you to know, did not have any religious artifact on them. It may well have been someone with your need to proselytize that started putting them on. If you’re interested, but I assume you’re not, there is an alternative to the imposition of a Bible that we think is more appropriate. (If you are interested, feel free to check with us.)
Second, you chose to express great outrage at our use of the words ‘religion’ or ‘religious’ on our website and attempted to suggest we were being hypocritical in doing so. Or worse, I guess, you suggested we were creating or promoting our own religion, and then capped that off by charging that we “don’t know what “religion” is or means.”
Well, actually we do. Do you? I suspect not, since the word religion, if you’d bother to look it up, means ‘creed’ or ‘faith’ or ‘belief’ or ‘conviction.’
The use of the word on the website makes the point that one in the military commits her or himself to believing in the Constitution and the laws – the creed – of this country and not to a particular religious belief system.
Then you prattle on about our having “set ourselves against God.” Before I go on, let me express my personal contempt for you for having the colossal audacity to assign to yourself the right to judge us, to determine that the varying belief systems of the staff, the clients and the supporters of the MRFF are “against God.” Most of those associated with the MRFF, for your information, are Christians. But there are many among us of other faiths and belief systems of all forms, including none. That you, who claim to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus, dare to speak to us and of us in such a self-important and condemnatory manner is disgusting. It’s zealots like you, sir, who make Jesus weep.
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)
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“Apaling” [sp] says the answer is to put in another table without a Bible on it. What about the other 219 officially recognized flavors of religion the DOD claims to support?
What are you gonna do, put another 219 tables in the VA to recognize each one?
I thought people came to the VA for healthcare, not the Sermon on the Mount!
How ‘bout none? A POW/MIA table, without a Bible on it, in no way infringes on your “freedoms.”
You can bring a Bible with you to the VA right? Anyone say you can’t? You can read it in the VA. No one will bother you!
Poor Christians – so persecuted by not being able to represent ALL POW/MIA with a Bible. Even the Jews and Hindus and Muslims! They should ALL be represented by Christianity. I’m so mad, as a Christian! Everyone knows the other religions are inferior! If I want to bury a Muslim military member with a Bible, I should be able to do it! Or a Hindu, or a Jew! They should all be buried with Bibles because that’s the only way to get into Heaven! Well, you can pay indulgences to cut the line or bypass purgatory, but you get the idea. For the most part, it’s by way of God’s little bastard Jewish child! Spoiled celeb kid! Won’t even let you talk to his Dad!
Get over yourself! Putting a Bible on the table does a disservice to a secular military! How ‘bout let’s focus a little more on military readiness and combat capability than whether or not there’s a fucking Bible on a POW/MIA table!
Bring your own you lazy prick!
If Name Withheld believes removing the Christian Bible from the table at a VA hospital infringes on the religious freedom of all veterans, as he stated, he knows nothing about why we have a first amendment in the constitution and why there can’t be religious freedom when government is promoting religion. He also ignorantly believes that all the missing soldier displays have Bibles (wrong). It’s sad that someone so misinformed can be so disrespectful and condescending in his criticism of those with whom he disagrees.