Wreaths

From: (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Wreaths
Date: December 9, 2021 at 2:10:29 PM MST
To: Michael L Weinstein <[email protected]>

Mr. Weinstein,

I received your email last night after speaking with you on the phone.  I want you to know that I have read the emails you sent me with great care.  After careful consideration and empathizing with you and your organization’s position, I feel compelled to express my concerns.  As I honor and respect the mission of your organization I disagree with your course of action against the Wreaths Across America project.  You state in your email that “MRFF is not anti-wreath” but “anti-presumption.”  Would it not be presumptuous to presume that an intended gesture of good will would not be welcome by the deceased veterans or their families?  I’m sorry but the presumption goes both ways.  I would also urge you to consider the logistical challenge of attempting to locate every responsible living family member for those buried veterans just to ask them if it’s okay to lay a wreath on their grave during the holiday season, only to have them give their blessing  (now I know I’m presuming but I think a very safe one).  I think this practical aspect should be a serious consideration and a point of empathy on MRFF’s behalf.  For surely to administer such a logistical nightmare would put at risk the entire project.  But I think the most logical aspect to all of this is simply that if a family member decides to visit their loved ones grave site and they see a wreath, and they don’t want it there, all they have to do is remove it.  It’s that simple, no harm no foul.   As a former military officer I know you understand that one must choose their battles carefully.  When you consider the intent behind such a project that promotes such a gesture of good will, it seems silly to me to think this is a battle that needs to be fought.  Besides, just because it can be fought doesn’t mean it should.  Our world needs more good will, not less of it.  So I urge you to please reconsider your efforts and focus on things that are far more important.

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 1:39 PM Martin France wrote:

(name withheld), I get your point about presumption–it would be impossible to track down all of the peoples’ families in a cemetery.  Let’s talk about this, though.  A veterans’ or national cemetery is usually on publicly owned ground.  What rights do we have to decorate public grounds–especially if we have no direct connection to the person buried in the plot?  National parks are public grounds, but I don’t have the right to decorate them (even temporarily) as I so choose.  You want to take pretty pictures with wreaths?  Find an empty field and take your pictures with all of the wreaths you want.  You do not have the right to use our war dead as props for your photos just to make you or anyone feel good about themselves.There are places where some decorations are traditionally left:  The Vietnam Memorial is decorated daily by well-wishers. BUT, in that case, the National Park Service picks up ALL of the decorations daily, catalogs them, and stores most non-perishable decorations at considerable expense. That would not be practical at every veterans’ cemetery.  At the Vietnam Memorial, with the exception of flowers, most of the things left are notes or personal effects for one specific person, too.  People are not decorating every name.I also understand why you might suggest that the MRFF pick a different fight.  And, I’ll even stipulate that many of the folks involved are people of goodwill.  But, just as I don’t want someone baptizing me (or my ancestors) against my will, I don’t want someone spray-painting my house or business in a spirit of goodwill (but against my will), and I don’t want some stranger deciding for themselves (out of some sense of goodwill) what should and shouldn’t be placed upon the grave of one of my family’s veterans–or civilians.It’s very easy for you to think this is innocuous because you clearly like wreaths and think they mean good things and look nice.  That’s YOUR culture and background.  Not everyone agrees.  Many Jews do not want Christmas wreaths on the graves of their loved ones.  I doubt if Muslim families would like it.  I wouldn’t want it on my grave.American flags?  Sure–it can be safely assumed that if you are in a veterans’ cemetery, you defended America, so an AMERICAN flag is good.  What if the Daughters of the Confederacy just DECIDED out of goodwill that they’d put confederate battle flags on every grave in every veterans’ cemetery in the south?  Not so good.  The KKK?  Not good.  American Nazis?  Again, not good.The bottom line is that just as strangers shouldn’t decide the color of my casket, my headstone inscription, or where I’m buried or how MY house is painted or how I decorate my home–that’s my and my family’s responsibility–they shouldn’t just decide what religious or other decorations are on my grave.  Moreover, we shouldn’t be enabling an organization that reaps huge profits from this enterprise to turn this whole thing into a divisive narrative.  You want to help veterans’ and their next of kin?  THEN DO SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST SYMBOLIC.  Donate money to the Wounded Warrior Project or “22 Until None.”  Adding mulch to a cemetery does nothing to aid veterans’ families and just makes work for cemetery caretakers.It DOES matter to me.  You just PRESUMING that this isn’t important demonstrates you acceptance of Christian majority privilege–the same sense of privilege that leads to discrimination of all those that aren’t part of their tribe.  It leads to racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimation.If you like wreaths, then put them on the graves of your own damn family.  Leave my family and all others that you don’t know personally out of it.And thanks for your note

.Marty FranceBrigadier General, USAF (Retired)MRFF Advisory Board Member

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Marty France

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 1:57 PM (name withheld)
Public grounds are decorated all the time in some fashion or another.  The White House is decorated, the Capital is decorated.  In fact I have never seen a public building in use that is not decorated. Even the grave stones have some aesthetic quality so when you ask what right do we have to decorate public grounds, I think, is a disingenuous question because I can’t believe that it’s the act of decorating you have an issue with but what they are being decorated with.  Correct.  It’s the decoration, who’s making the decision on the decoration, and the fact that they are decorating the grave of someone that they don’t personally know. What right do they have to decorate the grave of someone they don’t know with a symbol that has religious connotations?As far as having no direct connection to a person buried in a plot, does a person have to have a direct connection in order to honor them?  I would think not.  I think so–to some extent.  For example, if I knew that, by their gravestone or some other background that a deceased soldier was gay, I’d decorate their grave with a rainbow flag.  How ould it be received if I did that to every grave in the cemetery?  Even if I meant it as a means of honoring how I believe that they defended gay rights?  Probably not well.  Same goes (as I’ve said) for a Muslim flag or some other symbol. Besides, every American is connected to the sacrifice of those who died to protect this country.  Correct–then you can decorate their graves with distinctly American symbols.  A wreath doesn’t qualify IMHO.  It’s clearly not seen as a unanimously supported symbol of our nation, Constitution, or freedom. When you say “You do not have the right to use our war dead as props for your photos just to make you or anyone feel good about themselves”.  I don’t see this as the intent behind the project and if you want to reduce the issue to some ridiculous drivel by characterizing it in such a way in order to make it easier to attack, then it really puts into question the genuineness of your position. I do.  It would offend me.  I know many others who feel the same way.  As Mao said, the fish don’t notice the water. You like wreaths, so you do not understand how anyone could be offended by them.  I feel the same about the rainbow flag.Placing a wreath on a grave is a far cry from being baptized and when you apply paint to something it tends to be permanent.  Wreaths are not permanent and do no damage what-so-ever.  It’s an apples and oranges comparison that does not reflect the reality of the situation.  And I know jews who wouldn’t mind having a wreath on their grave and I can pretty much guarantee they would care even less after they are buried.
Again, to you, it’s apples and oranges.  To me, it’s Romes vs Honey Crisps. To me, it’s gross overreach of sanctimonious jackasses that can’t imagine living in a world with people that have different beliefs. It’s also a lot of work for volunteers AND for the cemeteries to clean up.  It produces NOTHING tangible except money for the Worcester Wreath Co.
My PRESUMING has nothing to do with Christian majority privilege and the privilege reference is nonsense since it’s a law of nature that the accepted majority ideology will always be privileged simply by the act of being a majority.  It’s not privileged because it’s christian but because it’s a majority.  The same would go for any other ideology that becomes the dominant belief system for a society.  And to think that it leads to discrimination, racisim, and sexism is absolutely proposterous. Those who aren’t part of your majority would disagree with you.  Deeply.  Check that thought with Native Americans, Blacks, Atheists, Muslims, Women…  You not thinking it happens doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.  It just means that, again, you don’t bother to notice it because you’re just floating along on top of the wave. You are literally protesting against a project that is being inclusive. HELLO?.  Bullshit.  If that was true, then putting a pile of horse manure atop every grave could be viewed as an inclusive way to fertilize the cemetery’s grass.  Putting a cross or a wreath or a menorah atop a grave has meaning.  If it didn’t, why put anything there?There is nothing racist about it, nothing sexist about it, and clearly not discriminatory.  Make up your damn mind.  Do you want them to presume that non-christians don’t want the nice gesture of a wreath or do you want them to be NOT discriminated against because of their religious beliefs? Correct.  I want people to only decorate the graves of their own friends and family if they’re going to do so with anything that can be interpreted (or is meant to symbolize) anything other than our nation–something universally accepted.  Frankly, the only thing I can think of is our flag.  If you’re not putting a flag on a stranger’s grave, then leave it alone. As far as the issue being divisive, you have just as much control over that as they do.  All you have to do is realize that people’s hearts are in the right place and if someone has an issue with that, then maybe they need that wreath more than anyone.  Maybe they are who this is meant for, to look in a mirror to make them see what they are really protesting against because I promise you, it’s not wreaths.All I have to do is just accept that we live in a nation that is majority Christian and they get to decide how my grave is decorated.  They can define “goodwill” for me.  They can decide how we treat non-Christians and the LGBTQ+ community, and Muslims, and Atheists and…  They can decide for my wife or daughter when they have a reproductive decision.  They can decide if my business can open on Sunday.  They can decide if my kids are subjected to prayer in their schools.  They can decide for me if my tax money goes to a Christian school.  They’re the majority.  I have no rights if they decide I don’t.  No the fuck thank you.  I didn’t serve for 41 years in uniform to tolerate that shit any longer. GFY. No, it’s not wreaths alone that I’m protesting.  It’s people who think they alone can define goodwill and beauty and art because they believe one particular way and think that everyone else should join them or face consequences (i.e., fewer rights).  If they want to all move to Gilead, I’m fine with that.  As long as they’re in this country, governed by this Constitution, though, I’m going to fight for my rights.  I will not walk calmly to second-class citizenship, prison, or the gallows.

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Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 10, 2021, at 4:14 PM, John Compere wrote:
Thank you for the civility of your communication.
Please be advised some families of deceased military veterans do not want a religious organization to which they do not belong profiting, promoting its religion version & marketing its religious organization by presumptuously putting & publicizing its religious wreaths on the graves of their deceased loved ones without permission. Those families consider it uninvited & unwanted intrusions on the personal burial sites of their deceased family members.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (composed of 85% Christians) represents, when requested, the religious freedom right of those families to object & prevent what they believe to be thoughtless trespassing on the graves of their deceased military veterans. We do so because we support & respect the wishes of those military families. Unfortunately, their wishes are not taken into consideration.
For more complete information, please see militaryreligiousfreedom.org.

Most Sincerely,Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation

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From: (name withheld)
Subject: Wreaths
Date: December 10, 2021 at 3:20:57 PM MST
To: “[email protected]” <[email protected]>

Mike,
Although I respect your service in the military and public service after, what you are doing now against the Wreaths Across America (WAA) is disgusting.  I also come from a long history of a military family including my two boys recently in Special Operations. 
A wreath is not a symbol of Jesus Christ.  Yes, It’s a festive icon of Christmas but it is not a tag that someone is a Christian.  Millions of families across the U.S. buy wreaths for their homes that are not Christians.  
Please stop your fight agains WAA at Arlington National Cemetery for your own again and leave this battle for what really matters. 
All the best,

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Dec 10, 2021, at 4:51 PM, Mike wrote:

(name withheld),
Please don’t be silly. Christmas is, by definition, a “symbol of Jesus Christ,” as you put it. The makers, sellers and layers-on of these wreaths have an agenda here. Why is it too much to ask of them to carefully place the wreaths on the graves of those veterans whose families want and welcome them?
All the best,
Mike Farrell (MRFF Board of Advisors)

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member James Currie

Dear (name withheld),

I have been asked by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to respond to your recent email. We at MRFF are constantly battling against those who would place the imprimatur of the U.S. Government behind one religion or religious denomination, which usually means the Christian religion, since it commands a majority of the country. It was likewise a majority among white American men—who were the segment of the population that mattered—when the Constitution was drafted and adopted in 1787-88. The fact that the men who drafted the Constitution and almost immediately modified it with ten amendments foresaw the dangers that would come if the relationship between government and religion were not placed in fetters says a great deal about how these men viewed religion.

You are apparently a thoughtful person, and I hope and trust that you have read the Constitution thoroughly and recently. Maybe, though, you have never studied exactly how the Constitution addresses the relationship between government, the citizens of this great country, and religion. Let’s look at Article VI of the Constitution. This is sort of a catch-all Article at the end of the document that addresses debts made by the U.S. Government prior to the adoption of the Constitution, the supremacy of federal over state laws, and the oath that Senators and Representatives take. It ends with a very important clause: “but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” Please think about that with me for a minute. The men who drafted our Constitution in the hot confines of Independence Hall in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787 wanted to separate us from those European governments, including the country from which we had recently gained our Independence, where religious tests for office were routine. Even today the English monarch, powerless as he or she largely is, must be a member of the established and government-sanctioned  Church of England. Then, many of these same men took this separation one step further. When the first federal Congress met in 1789, one of its early orders of business was that of considering a series of Constitutional amendments that became known as the Bill of Rights. The first amendment adopted by this Congress set forth even more clearly that the U.S. government would remain neutral when it came to religion. You probably know the words by heart: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” “Congress shall make no law.” It can hardly be any clearer than that, and by “law,” the Constitution means regulation or edict or any other action which favors one religion over another or which recognizes a religion as such. President Thomas Jefferson expressed it perhaps the best of any of the men who shaped the meaning of our government when he wrote in 1802 that, “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people [referring here to the First Amendment] which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” Jefferson’s “wall of separation” between church and state has stood the test of time, and it is this wall of separation that MRFF seeks to defend.

Now, you may think that a Christmas wreath is a small nothing, a minor infringement—if at all—on this wall of separation that Jefferson referenced. You even suggest that a wreath is not really Christian and is not regarded as Christian by many who display them. I do not deny that some wreath-lovers probably do not think of the wreath as a Christian symbol, any more than some folks do not regard the cross as a Christian symbol, Yes, there are people who have maintained in the course of certain legal proceedings that crosses have become so secularized as to have lost their connection with the crucifixion of Jesus. I am guessing that many Christians would take powerful umbrage at such a characterization of the primary symbol of Christianity, just as they would your assertion that, “A wreath is not a symbol of Jesus Christ.” That was probably true a thousand years ago, but by at least the early years of the nineteenth century, the evergreen wreath had become accepted as a symbol of the Advent, meaning the Christmas season. Wreaths have been fully associated with Christianity for well over 200 years—almost as long as we have had our own Constitution.

If some non-government entity wanted to place wreaths on Christian graves in private cemeteries, that would be one thing. But what we are facing here is a private enterprise going onto U.S. Government property—with U.S. Government permission–and decorating veterans’ graves with Christian symbols, in complete contravention of the Constitution. Context is everything. If a non-Christian family hangs a wreath, it is just a circle of evergreens, but wreaths have been a Christian symbol for several hundred years.

The stakes are quite large here. I ask you to be aware of those who would erode that wall of separation of which Jefferson spoke and erase the distinction between the United States and those countries where a particular religion holds sway. Any move toward making the U.S. into such a theocracy will probably not be done openly and swiftly; it will be attempted incrementally and clandestinely in ways that appear innocuous. That is what we need to be on watch for.

Col. James T. Currie, USA (Ret.), Ph.D.

Board of Advisors, Military Religious Freedom Foundation

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John,
Thank you for your response.  To be honest, I was not aware that they were a Christian organization.  
All the best,

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 11, 2021, at 6:51 AM, John Compere wrote:

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Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 5:28:04 PM
To: (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Wreaths  

Negative, (name withheld)… THIS “really matters”… Try to say past year obvious “Christian privilege”… Mikey… Not “Mike”

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Mikey,
My apologies on addressing it to Mike, I have said Mikey had I know.  No disrespect intended. 
All the best,

(name withheld)

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Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 8:15 AM Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]> wrote:

……no prob about calling me “Mike”….by the way, Adam, we do NOT agree that veterans’ families ought to be the ones burdened with “opting out” to the VA……..the Wreaths Across America scammers and/or veterans’ families ought to be the ones who have to notify the VA that they “opt in” to having wreathes placed on their loved one’s graves…your open-mindedness is appreciated……again, please read the bellow:

Wreaths Across America: Forcing veterans who didn’t celebrate Xmas in life to celebrate it in death

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/11/22/2065694/-Wreaths-Across-America-Forcing-veterans-who-didn-t-celebrate-Xmas-in-life-to-celebrate-it-in-death

So-called “non-profit” claims its Xmas wreaths aren’t Xmas wreaths – but sells them as Xmas wreaths

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/12/6/2067841/-So-called-non-profit-claims-its-Xmas-wreaths-aren-t-Xmas-wreaths-but-sells-them-as-Xmas-wreaths

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Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Dec 13, 2021, at 12:52 AM, Mike wrote:
Hello (name withheld),
I don’t believe we are opposed to wreaths being placed on the graves of veterans whose family wants them. That is their right.
But it’s not the job of the families who do not want a wreath to so inform the organization, it is the organization’s responsibility to check each one to see if they may place the wreath in question. Their unwillingness to do so is not only presumptuous, it is a brazen act that ignores the rights of the individual veteran’s families and dismisses any possibility that such actions could conceivably be unwelcome. That suggests an agenda on the part of a pro-Christian organization that intends to make a statement and is exactly the sort of maneuver the MRFF has come to expect from groups with a ‘Christian Nation’ goal.
Best,
Mike Farrell(MRFF Board of Advisors)

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