Re: Mikey, your gonna burn (a thorough rebuttal from MRFF Advisory Board member Pastor Joan)

Originally received on September 24, 2011:

Mikey,

One religious symbol, the flag? Your an idolater.

One scripture, the Constitution? Your a fool.

One faith, partiotism, once again you’re a fool.

I am a Christian and a veteran, and frankly people like you and your kind are
ruining this country. Have you forgotten what kind of people founded this grand
experiment that is the United States of America? Do some research and stop being afraid of Jesus.
He doesn’t need you, me or anyone else. He does love us, and died for our salvation.
Why do you still hammer the nails into his wrists? What’d he do to you?

By the way, I’ve told the ACLU this and I’ll remind you,
there is no such thing as an Establishment Clause in the first amendment.
One letter from Jefferson to a church in Conneticut does not a law make,.

Congress shall make no law respecting an estabishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free excersise thereof; (which is what you people are trying to do)
or abridgingthe freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people
peaceably to assemble (as in prayer? hmm?), and to petition the Government
for a redress of grievances.

That’s it, why does that bother you?
I’ve read your mission statement. Seems to me you have common sense.
Don’t forget the real number one reason to don the uniform: Service.

Be a servant, Mikey. Read your bible. Pray. The Lord hates idolaters.

(name withheld)
USAF Veteran

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Hi (name withheld),

Thank you for contacting MRFF with your concerns about Mikey. When an email is sent to info@ it goes to Mikey, the Board and the Advisory Board. We are more than happy to answer any questions you have and in doing so; hope to clarify our position regarding the religious atmosphere in the military, especially at the Air Force Academy.

I have been asked to respond to you and I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you. As you can imagine, the people at MRFF are very busy responding to all types of emails.

I’d like to thank you for your service. My father and uncles fought in WWII, my brother in Vietnam and my son-in-law in Iraq. I also worked for the military under contract from 2003-2004 in the State Family Program. We helped the families prepare for deployment, took care of the family’s needs while their loved ones were on active duty and instructed them on what to expect when their loved ones got home.

Here is a little bit of background on MRFF before I answer your email.

Mikey Weinstein, the founder of the MRFF, is an honor graduate of the Air Force Academy, held the position of Judge Advocate for 10 years at the Air Force Academy and was a Presidential Counsel to President Reagan for 3 years. Many of the people involved with MRFF are military veterans. Some of them, including Mikey, have been the object of beatings, verbal abuse, withholding of advancements, drummed out of the military on false charges and subject to the harshest religious proselytizing ever imaginable.

First and foremost, we are not anti-Christian. In fact, there are many mainline Christians that volunteer with MRFF. I am one of them and I am an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God. Also, the California Council of Churches IMPACT with 5,500 churches supports us. What we are against is the forced, in your face, proselytizing by the Dominionist Christians who believe our soldiers should be “Warriors for Christ” and every war a “crusade.” These types of Christians believe that they have to cleanse the earth of all Christians of not the “right kind” and all non-believers– using our military – so Jesus can come back and rule for 1,000 years – which throws out the whole book of Revelations.

MRFF believes that any person who wants to don the uniform of the US military to fight for our freedoms under the Constitution, has that right no matter what religion they practice or if they practice no religion at all.

Currently MRFF is helping over 25,000 soldiers, officers and Chaplains of ALL branches of the military, 96% of them mainline Christians, who have reached out to us to help them with the unwanted religious proselytizing they are being forced to endure. The Chaplains of mainline Christianity are being pushed aside and overruled by these extreme fundamentalist/evangelical/dominionist Christians. They have tried the chain-of-command to no avail because those in command, all the way up to the Pentagon, are of the same belief. There is no one else to turn to but MRFF.

You wrote-

One religious symbol, the flag? Your an idolater.
One scripture, the Constitution? Your a fool.
One faith, partiotism, once again you’re a fool.

Mikey’s statement was putting the military back to where it was and belongs. It was the Christians who supplanted the flag with the cross, the Constitution with the bible and patriotism with faith.

The first Pledge of Allegiance was published in “The Youth’s Companion” on September 8, 1892.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

We pledge our allegiance to the flag, not the Bible and not the cross.

I will leave your statement “Have you forgotten what kind of people founded this grand experiment that is the United States of America?” to others here at MRFF who are experts on this subject. But I do know that my ancestors were here – flourishing and worshipping the “Great Spirit” who was so close in character and is the same God as Christianity– when the Europeans arrived.

Every soldier joining the military must take an oath of enlistment.

The Oath of Enlistment
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God (optional).”
This oath is to support and defend the Constitution not the bible.

The first amendment in the Constitution states;
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (establishment clause), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (free exercise clause).”

The first amendment stands on its own concerning an establishment clause without a letter from anybody. Because you do not see it that way does not mean that it historically has not existed. I suggest that you do some research on it and not be taken in by false teachings on this subject. I understand there are some extreme Christians that would like it to go away to fit into their own agenda but the establishment clause is there for all to see.

Because Congress authorizes and funds our military, these clauses are in effect.

Article VI of the Constitution states;
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test.

You wrote –

“there is no such thing as an Establishment Clause in the first amendment.

See above.

One letter from Jefferson to a church in Conneticut does not a law make”

There is more than one letter and more than I am writing here.

Roger Williams (near 1603 – between January and February 1683) was an English Protestant theologian who was an early proponent of religious freedom and the separation of church and state. In 1636, he began the colony of Providence Plantation, which provided a refuge for religious minorities. Williams started the first Baptist church, the First Baptist Church of Providence, before leaving to become a Seeker. He was a student of Native American languages and an advocate for fair dealings with Native Americans. (Wikipedia)

In 1664 Roger Williams wrote “A hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world.”
Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter on January 1, 1802 to the Danbury, Connecticut, Baptist Association that was published in a Massachusetts newspaper;

“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State“.

The US Supreme Court has upheld the writing of Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson’s metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In its 1879 Reynolds v. United States decision, the court allowed that Jefferson’s comments “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the First Amendment.” In the 1947 Everson v. Board of Education decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote, “In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion (Establishment Clause) by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.

The Treaty of Tripoli
This is the first treaty between the USA and Tripoli signed in Tripoli on November 4, 1796 less than 10 years after the Constitution was passed in 1787. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797. Don’t you think that if the wording was wrong concerning the United States not being founded on Christian principles, there would have been uproar? It wouldn’t have passed unanimously!
Part of the Treaty states;

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

As you can see, America was not founded on Christian laws and the separation of church and state has a long history upheld by the Supreme Court.

You wrote –

Congress shall make no law respecting an estabishment of religion (Establishment Clause – see the word Establishment?),
or prohibiting the free excersise thereof; (Exercise Clause – see the word Exercise?)(which is what you people are trying to do) (No we’re not – we’re trying to stop ONE EXTREME FORM OF CHRISTIANITY FROM MAKING IT A PREREQUISITE TO BE IN THE MILITARY AND TO STOP THEM FROM TEACHING THAT ALL MAINLINE CHRISTIANS OF NOT “THE RIGHT KIND” OF CHRISTIANITY ARE GOING TO HELL!” SEE THAT ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE? THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS! NO ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION!
or abridgingthe freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people
peaceably to assemble (as in prayer? hmm?) (Where did you get the idea we are against assembling for prayer in a church or chapel or anywhere people of like mind want to pray? Hmmm? We area against forcing the WHOLE military to listen to just Christian prayers when there are service men and women who practice different faiths or no faith at all! Again, for clarification, the ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE!), and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

You wrote –

“That’s it, why does that bother you?”

My question to you is why it BOTHERS YOU THAT THERE IS AN ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE? Do you want to do away with one of the foundational and basic laws of our Constitution? Or do you just want to ignore it? Or make believe it doesn’t exist?

As an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God I am shocked that your subject line has “Mikey, your gonna burn” in it! Did you forget that Jesus has the last word on who is going to heaven? We go before the Judgment Seat of Christ not Robert. Did He not say “Judge not lest ye be judged?” Not you, nor I nor anyone else has the right to judge anyone. He is going to judge you for taking His place and even thinking of condemning another human being.

My heart goes out to you because I believe you have been deceived with false teachings concerning the true FACTS of the Constitution. My heart breaks for you because somewhere along the line you have come to believe that you can condemn someone you perceive as your enemy against the teaching of Jesus where he says to pray for them. We are not your enemy. We are just putting religion back where it belongs – between the person and God. Our military is not a church and has no place in teaching theology.

I pray you do some research on your own and that God opens your eyes to the truth of not only His Word, but the truth about our Founding Fathers and the Constitution.

Pastor Joan