I am so against what your group is supporting, You are trying to destroy what made this country strong.
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This post was created on the previous version of the MRFF website, and may not be fully accessible to users of assistive technology. If you need help accessing this content, please reach out via email.Mikey is busy helping our soldiers and asked me to respond to you.
You may be “upset” and think it’s “totally illogical” but it’s the law of our land under the Establishment Clause.
You seem to be missing the point: the poster – as worded – is unconstitutional and the articles written say so. Even the Army Recruiting Command said that if the person, who went outside of the 47 accepted wordings for that poster, had requested permission to use it, he would have been denied…under the Constitution.
Our military is secular and must remain that way. Any person, who wants to defend our country against all enemies foreign and domestic, is free to do so regardless of their religious beliefs or non-belief in a deity.
We are not anti-God or anti-Christian. Mikey is Jewish and prays 3 times a day to the same Father we do. A full 75% or more of the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters with the MRFF are Christians. Out of our 40,000+ military clients (1 can represent 50 and 1 does represents 100) are Christians. If anything, we represent Christians more than any other religion but you won’t hear about it because that wouldn’t make a Christian angry against us.
You wrote:
“You should be thankful we don’t carry rocks”
This comes across as a veiled threat.
Jesus said “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
No one did because they recognized the sin in their lives as Paul stated “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
I don’t know of any human that walks on water.
You should be thankful you and other Christians don’t carry rocks for stoning because you’d be on the same playing field as the extreme fundamental Muslims.
The religion of the majority in our military does not rule over other religions or those of no religious preference, under the Constitution:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment (Establishment Clause) of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise (Free Exercise Clause) thereof . . . “(1st Amendment)
The Establishment Clause comes before the Free Exercise Clause for a reason; the Free Exercise Clause is subservient to the Establishment Clause – not the other way around as some Christians would like it to be.
The Supreme Court heard the Lemon v. Kurtzman case in 1971 and ruled in favor of the Establishment Clause.
Subsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the Lemon Test:
- Any law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose.
- The principle or primary effect of any law or policy must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.
- The statute or policy must not result in an “excessive entanglement” of government with religion.
If any government entity’s actions fit into one of these three, then it is a violation of the Establishment Clause.
The poster indicates an endorsement of Christianity and would therefore be in violation.
The Parker v. Levy case, decided on June 19, 1974, defined under the Uniform Code of Military Justice that “the military constitutes a specialized community governed by a separate discipline from that of the civilian…”
The rules that apply to the military do not apply to you or other Christians as civilians.
This country was not founded on the Christian religion but was a refuge from religious persecution in Europe.
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion.” 1797, The Treaty of Tripoli, initiated by President Washington, signed by President John Adams, and approved by the Senate of the United States
… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Thomas Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists, January 1, 1802
The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses. John Adams “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787-88
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.James Madison, c. 1803
God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.” Founding Father Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773
“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.” John Adams
I suggest you do a little research on your own on the Constitution and our Founding Fathers using the Library of Congress and other reputable researchers instead of relying on revisionist historians.
Pastor Joan
MRFF Advisory Board Member
Dear (name withheld),
You have the audacity to claim to find our position illogical when you hold views like these and consider yourself an American?
For your information the Pledge of Allegiance did not mention God until the phrase was inserted in the 1950s. That is not and was not the intention of the founders of this great country. They, in their wisdom, set up this country in a way that would protect its citizenry from people like you. And that’s what we’re trying to do today for the women and men in the military.
Just to give you something else to think about, a great Muslim leader whom I am proud to call friend, said “God does not belong to any religion. All religions belong to God.” And at the memorial service for a great Jewish leader two weeks ago, a Christian minister friend said the same thing.
I respectfully suggest you get over yourself.
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)
Many, because of their beliefs, tend to commingle secular and religious ideas to validate their particular beliefs.
Except to prohibit religious tests, nowhere in the Constitution is any reference to God, Jesus, Angels, Saints or any other religious theme.
The US Supreme Court in it’s 1971 decision “Lemon Vs. Kurzman” prohibits government, including Public Education and the Armed Forces from favoring a religion or favoring religion over non-religion.
Rick Baker
Capt. USAF (Ret)
MRFF Volunteer
(name withheld)
Dear (name withheld),
Thank you for y0ur follow-up and comments.
Rick
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I hope they save you a place by the fire