AIR FORCE TIMES – Group wants two-star court-martialed for speech

Published On: May 15, 2015|Categories: News, Top News|43 Comments|

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  1. Mark Colwell May 15, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    While I generally agree with and support the stances of the MRFF, I can’t help but wonder if the reaction in this case is a little excessive. First, this was a religious event… and anyone attending that event should have expected individuals endorsing their own religious faith. Second, all attendance was voluntary… I was never required to attend a prayer breakfast and I served for over 20 years. Given that it was probably not a captive audience and the event was a religious one, I’m not sure this act warrants the outrage MRFF seems to be displaying.

  2. Mike Challman May 15, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Hi Mark – Thanks for your comment. Yes, it was a religious event, specific to a particular sectarian belief, and therein are two issues that I think are valid cause for the concern raised by MRFF about the speech.

    First, with regard to the sectarian nature of the event, it seems obvious to me that General Olson is clearly across the line that is described for all AF leaders in AFI 1-1, Section 2.12. This document provides very clear guidance about how AF leaders are to ensure a proper balance between free exercise of religion and the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. Specifically, it says the following:

    “Leaders at all levels must balance constitutional protections for their own free exercise of religion, including individual expressions of religious beliefs, and the constitutional prohibition against governmental establishment of religion. They must ensure their words and actions cannot reasonably be construed to be officially endorsing or disapproving of, or extending preferential treatment for any faith, belief, or absence of belief.”

    The question I’d ask you to consider is this — When a 2-star general makes a highly publicized speech, in full uniform, can that not be reasonably construed as an official endorsement? Note that it’s not the MRFF that created a link between his leadership position in the USAF and a public pronouncement of his faith — the General did that himself, by showing up in full uniform.

    The second issue that I think is created by General Olson’s proclamation is the message that it sends to the rest of the world, particularly those groups who believe they are locked in a religious struggle with the United States. I’d argue that those groups are not going to make a distinction between whether or not to consider the General’s words to be private versus official speech — they will see a senior USAF leader, they will hear the content of his words, and they will draw a very logical conclusion that the two are connected.

    So with this second issue, the question I’d ask you to consider is this — Is General Olson helping or hurting our national security efforts by making a very public pronouncement of his personal faith, while in full uniform and streaming to computers the world over?

    At a minimum, I’d think you would be left to wonder the same thing that I wonder — If General Olson truly intended to make just a ‘personal’ statement, why did he appear in full uniform and tout his USAF leadership role? And why did he specifically call for sectarian prayers for the Dept of Defense?

  3. James May 16, 2015 at 8:52 am

    Has anyone serving in the USAF complained about the event? You talk about guidance that is provided by the USAF to the leadership; however, there was no law broken or at least you have provided no clear evidence just conjecture. You simply can’t charge someone because they didn’t follow a guideline (not an order). It seems the only people upset about this is your organization. There are bigger issues that we as a nation need to solve and I believe trying to “hang” a man because he talked about God during a religious event is a waste of our nations time and resources.

  4. Jeff Hartle May 16, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    The Air Force Times is nothing more than a glorified military tabloid. It will post on it pages whatever will get readers stirred up enough to buy a copy. Surely there has to be an issue somewhere in the AF world more important than this garbage.

  5. Connie May 17, 2015 at 5:21 am

    Hi all. I’m not a member of MRFF and I’m livid this so and so went on the Day of Prayer in uniform. When wearing the uniform you represent ALL.of the USA, not just those who share your faith. Out of uniform I don’t care if you worship pink toenails. In it, your faith is a personal thing (like a penis) and shouldn’t be waved about in civilized company.

    This is a very big deal and I applaud MRFF for being on top of it.

  6. Bruce Thain May 17, 2015 at 8:49 am

    This is very simple. The general was at a prayer breakfast. He was in uniform because he was asked to speak about his faith and how it guides him as a leader. This didn’t compel anyone to do anything they didn’t want to. This isn’t compelling any member to convert. in short – he was well within all the mission statement parameters of MRFF and they should be supporting him.

    I am a retired military member and profess no particular faith. I am not a practicing anything. I was also the equal opportunity officer at three different commands. With that as my background I would say that I am very tired of political organizations like MRFF proclaiming wild numbers of offended or damaged service members. You don’t speak for me or anyone in the military that I know. The fictitious references to all the persons offended is just a generalization to make it sound like someone has been injured so that you can attack people like this who are freely expressing their faith. In this case, the General expressed his personal belief in God during a speech at a prayer breakfast. This is directly in line with your proposed mission statement that everyone be free to exercise his or her own beliefs.

    So the bottom line – either this is just a way to get you in the headlines – or – you believe the only freedom to express beliefs is in a non-Christian form. Either way – it makes you dead wrong. If you cannot represent all faiths equally – change your name and mission statements to reflect who you really are and whom you are trying to persecute. A thorough review of your mission statements should be performed as a minimum with your entire core leadership.

  7. jim May 17, 2015 at 9:25 am

    You obviously have too much time on your hands. This hurt you how, affected you in what way? Feel free to send me all your money, as ALL of it has “In GOD we

    Enjoy your pathetic lives, God Bless

  8. Suzy Finn May 17, 2015 at 9:51 am

    I am inspired by the faith that this man has. In fact, I am inspired by anyone so committed to their beliefs and can so eloquently share them.
    I am so sick of the double standards that rebuttals like this create and perpetuate. This man has the liberty to express his life experiences and what drives him and what he is grateful for. Why can’t people just respect each other and see the experiences of others as inspiration and find some common ground with their own no matter what drives them.
    This country is going to downhill because of organizations like this. You spout liberty and equality and you are nothing but a contradiction. You support the ignorant and entitled and you don’t represent anyone except your own special interest – whatever that is.

  9. Rob Boose May 17, 2015 at 10:10 am

    As a former Air Force Veteran, I commend Major General Craig S. Olson. More Military leaders should follow his footsteps. As far as the Military Religious Freedom Foundation goes, this organization is no different that I.S.I.S. They are terrorist wannabe thugs. I would love it if one of their members would come knocking on my door just once. Please come knock on my door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. Rich May 17, 2015 at 11:42 am

    Really, why do you cretins hate free speech. The only restrictions are political gatherings. This was not political. Take your hate bake to Hitler assholes. One day you folks will step to far and Odin will get ya.

  11. Lee Coleman May 17, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    Religious Freedoms Organization? Horseshit! If you truly valued religious freedom you would be pushing for the right of any individual to express their beliefs at any time. Our misguided nation has misinterpreted separation of church and state to mean that Athieism is the only sanctioned belief of the state. This is wrong! In a free society with freedom of speech and religion, all beliefs should be allowed to be expressed, in any government building, at any school at any public gathering. When you grasp that concept then you can call yourselves a religious freedoms organization.

  12. Dave Bradford May 17, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    I’m so sick and tired of you filthy leftist worms crapping on this countries heritage. You want to be an atheist? great, keep it to yourself otherwise go fuck yourself penisstein.

  13. Scooter May 17, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    I have to say that I am DEEPLY OFFENDED by your actions. In terms of a particular Faith I am an Agnostic and unsure if God even exists. However I am also a descendent of Founders of this country and the earliest settler in my family line arrived in 1639 and was a Proprietor of what became New Jersey. His children went on to help found Pennsylvania and many of their descendents being Quakers did their best to end Slavery in this nation. To the extent that some renounced their faith in order to join Pennsylvania Militias and fight for the Union in the US Civil War.

    So, FREEDOM is a bit of a Family Tradition and what you are attempting to do is in direct violation of the basic tenants of Religious Freedom. Because in or out of uniform I believe that every single person has the right to express their religious beliefs or lack of them. I also suspect that if this General had placed a Prayer Rug on this stage and bowed to Mecca you would be celebrating his Diversity. Because it’s nearly universal that your type of Hypocrites will pander to perceived “underdogs” while attacking an established practice that has done you no harm at all. You are in fact the exact type of personality that rose to power in Germany in the 1930’s by singling out those of a particular faith for persecution.

    I sincerely hope that you have now offended enough people that your attempts at obtaining funding dry up completely and totally.

  14. Dano May 17, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    It’s apparent to us Citizens of the United States Of America, that you would even consider
    demoralizing our God given rite to have Christ in our life. Freedom of speech. That’s rite you looney tunes. This country is home of the Brave. You- Military Religious Freedom Foundation Morons need to be thrown in jail, there just maybe you will find Christ in your dark deepen soul.

    I will pray for you

  15. James Winter May 17, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    One of the very FIRST reasons that the pilgrims came to the US was to LEAVE the Church of England and have their ability to CHOOSE a faith…the constitution and UCMJ did not exist..the ability to preach as we desire and proselytize is a God given right!! I was a YN in the USCG for 9 years and a Mormon missionary in Brazil for 2 yrs…you better believe that I am in my EdD program and that I have accomplished what I have because God guided me!! My new job here in Brasilia was definitely yeah I have NO PROBLEM with anyone in the military showing their gratitude to God…the separation of Church and State is an EDUCATION issue… if you don’t like it…remind yourselves where you’re standing…in a country whose first rights are regarding religious freedoms!! The constitution and the flag ARE to be revered and respected but not being able to freely express gratitude for who we are and what we have accomplished is UN-AMERICAN as well!!!

  16. Rick Roberts May 17, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    You people make me sick to my stomach. Why don’t you take you’re pathetic excuse for a wannabe American arses over to syria or better yet straight back into the toilets you climbed out of! Get Out of the Military! You should be dishonorably discharged! Bunch of musilm lovers!

  17. James Cadelan May 17, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Can you please name one person who is offended? I’m pretty sure the only people who are is this little organization designed to targets religious persons. See how dependent you are without them in wars. Realize you are helping suppress half of the armed forces. Praying for you all.
    James Cadelan
    Aerospace Engineer, Supporting the Armed Forces

  18. mick May 17, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    who u supposed to talk about at a national prayer meeting, donald duck,
    fuck stick mohammed, u bunch of fucking morons, stay home and away from the web if you
    have nothing constructive to do, hope I come across your measliy ass address and pay u a visit.

  19. Tim Ferguson May 17, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    “countless members of the United States Air Force who are utterly disgusted and shocked by the brazenly illicit and wholly unconstitutional, fundamentalist Christian proselytizing recently perpetrated, on international television (“GOD TV”),…”Yeah I really wonder how many your “countless members” really are. Mike Weinstein and his organization is in the same league as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist thugs. You say in your creed that you are “dedicated to ensuring that all members of the United States Armed Forces fully receive the Constitutional guarantee of both freedom of religion and freedom from religion, to which they and all Americans are entitled. Fighting for our servicemembers’ rights, so they can fight for ours.” You’re being way too presumptuous in saying you speak for me. Rest assured you DON”T speak for me. You never have and you never will.

    Tim Ferguson
    COL, USA (ret)

  20. walter kade May 18, 2015 at 3:58 am

    “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

    He should be commended for follow his oath!!!!!!!!!

  21. Richard May 18, 2015 at 4:55 am

    What part of “Freedom OF religion” (not from religion) do you idiots not understand.

    Richard Smith
    Master Chief Petty Officer
    U.S. Navy, Retired

  22. allen May 18, 2015 at 5:00 am

    I am a veteran, and I am absolutely disgusted that this organization is promoting the prosecution of a brother in arms who is executing his first amendment right while in uniform. The right that all military personal fight for. The right that does not say you can not execerise it while in uniform. This organization disgusts me! I am motivated now to start a boycott of you organization as that is another first amendment right of free speech that we have.

  23. Steve May 18, 2015 at 5:15 am

    Wolf in sheep’s clothing – Atheism comes in many forms.

  24. Jimmy Hicks May 18, 2015 at 6:50 am

    Please help me understand that your motivation is here..

    From your mission statement on this website..

    “The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is dedicated to ensuring that all members of the United States Armed Forces fully receive the Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom to which they and all Americans are entitled by virtue of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

    MRFF believes that religious faith is a Constitutionally guaranteed freedom that must never be compromised, except in the most limited of military circumstances, because of its fundamental importance to the preservation of the American nation and the American way of life.”

    Sooo… where is the religious freedom for Maj. Gen. Olson? Is he being attacked because by his freedom afforded to him by the Constitution he chooses to be a Christian? Surely that’s not why you’re attacking him because your mission statement says again, “MRFF believes that religious faith is a Constitutionally guaranteed freedom that must never be compromised,”

    Help me to understand your stance on this.. It makes absolutely no sense and makes your organization look hypocritical..

  25. Gary May 18, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Some exerts from Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story…a contemporary of many of our Founding Fathers….§ 1868. Probably at the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation. he also stated this…§ 1867. Now, there will probably be found few persons in this, or any other Christian country, who would deliberately contend, that it was unreasonable, or unjust to foster and encourage the Christian religion generally, as a matter of sound policy, as well as of revealed truth. In fact, every American colony, from its foundation down to the revolution, with the exception of Rhode Island, (if, indeed, that state be an exception,) did openly, by the whole course of its laws and institutions, support and sustain, in some form, the Christian religion; and almost invariably gave a peculiar sanction to some of its fundamental doctrines. And this has continued to be the case in some of the states down to the present period, without the slightest suspicion, that it was against the principles of public law, or republican liberty. Indeed, in a republic, there would seem to be a peculiar propriety in viewing the Christian religion, as the great basis, on which it must rest for its support and permanence, if it be, what it has ever been deemed by its truest friends to be, the religion of liberty. I would encourage many to read his writings…..

  26. phyllis anderson May 18, 2015 at 9:24 am

    “…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” Seems this part of the 1st amendment contradicts your organizations mission. As far as using AFI 1-1, Section 2.12, well it appears to be an unconstitutional law. This country has been blessed by God and is now losing it’s blessing because we allow people like yourselves to be taken seriously. The people as well as the courts need to ignore you. If that won’t stop your ungodly group then may God Himself deal with you.

  27. William Brown May 18, 2015 at 10:12 am

    It is so funny how groups like this jump up and down screaming about their 1st amendment right to free speech. But heaven forbid some Christian stands up and says “I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in God….”. Then people like this group starts screaming about how the Christians are trying to force their religion on others. If you would just turn the TV on or read the paper. I haven’t seen any Christian talking about how non-believers need to be killed. I have not heard one Christian pastor speak of Sharia Law. It sickens me to think that this is what our country has come to this where we actually listen to what a sorry whiner. I hate it when kids whine, complain, or tattle on each other. Stop being such a danged cry baby. Put on your big kid underwear. Wipe your snotty little nose and find a real issue to complain about. Maybe something important like the problems with social security, health care, long term care facilities, lack of funding for public education,….

  28. Kevin Meyer May 18, 2015 at 10:55 am

    You people are so hypocritical you don’t even deserve a response, but here it is! AMENDMENT I
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    My brother-in-law was one of those depicted in “We Were Soldiers and We Were Young”. He still contains shrapnel in his body to this day. My Uncle by a split second’s grace was the one who dropped a Vietcong, who had sights on him. Another Uncle chased Rommel across the scorching African desert, surviving at times on things that would turn your weak stomach. My brother, an MP, who helped bring about the Soviet’s demise, nearly died because of “political correctness policy” from the likes of you that took away the force and backing that he required to do his job!

    And what shall we say of General Washington who prayed at Valley Forge and depended upon Him for rescue or General Patton entreating God on Christmas Day during the Battle of the Bulge? Does anyone really believe your garbage that these brave men fought so that an oppressive government could dictate to them the time, the place, condition and the content of their pleas to their Heavenly Father in their time of need?

    NO! NO ONE except those with deceitful intents and malice aforethought, would dare to purport such rubbish!!! Indeed!! Each one of these men saw the free exercise of their own will, own beliefs, their sacred relationship with their God to be granted only by God to each and every human life! And what they fought, bled and died for was to remove those who would act as you do to intimidate, punish and persecute those who would dare live freely! YOU are the kind of people who have supported and willfully carried out the tyranny of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Casto, et al.

    You blind, thankless, stupid people. Do you not realize that if you castigate one group of people for the free excise of their lives, you have set precedent for your opponents to remove yours?

    Grow up!

    Kevin F. Meyer
    Defender of the Constitution

  29. Tom Weiser May 18, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    You people are idiots. And you can not silence people from speaking their beliefs.

  30. Mark Colwell May 18, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    Mike – Thank you for your response. Part of the problem is that balancing a leaders right to free exercise (where the religion teaches that you must be a witness for the religion), and respect for the establishment clause can be subjective.

    I agree that those words should not have been spoken in uniform, at the same time I’m not as certain that grievous harm was done to our national security efforts or that his speech resulted is a degradation of the unit’s morale, good order, and discipline. Both our friends and our adversaries understand that somewhere between 65-80% of our military is at least nominally Christian and that within this majority some very devout Christians will exist. A speech given at a prayer breakfast isn’t going to fundamentally change that perception.

    A perception that has been reinforced is the one where “enemies” of Christianity and Free Speech have attacked a good man for expressing his faith. I know that MRFF is neither an enemy of Christianity or Free Speech, however we haven’t done a very good job articulating why General Olsen was wrong. Mr. Olsen has every right to utter those words… and I hope MRFF would defend Mr. Olsen’s right to say them. The problem is that Gen. Olsen, and by extension the Air Force, made what was an inappropriate speech. That nuance is critical, otherwise we will find ourselves doing more harm to the cause of religious liberty than good.

    Calling on the Air Force to clarify it’s position on religious liberty in light of Gen. Olsen’s speech might have been a better strategy.

  31. watchtower May 18, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    TODAY – I’ve heard senior officers (who profess to support the Christian religion) and talking about this general at lunch specifically say they do not trust a member of [their] Squadron who does NOT profess their belief in god or accept Jesus Christ as their savior. AYFKM? And you wonder why MRFF gets upset when a General Officer gets on TV and spends 22 minutes talking about god, prayer, faith etc… What do you think would happen if he said he did all of those great things in the AF without a god, giant spaghetti monster or magical sky fairy? I bet the same people commenting here would go stark raving bonkers. The message is clear…keep your personal beliefs in your pocket; because in the end, it does not matter to the AF/Military mission.

  32. Susan May 18, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    When all the Christians are gone, you’ll wish they would come back. I’m not one but the world without them will be a very dangerous and scary place. Even Penn Jillette says this, he’s completely right.

  33. Boules May 18, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    The cowards removed my comments as well as some others they disagree with. If you keep on doing that, there would nothing left. I am done with you but I’ll praying that God may have mercy on your soul

  34. Bryan May 18, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    From the sound of it, the military religious freedom foundation sounds like a group of hysterical crazy people. There is no freedom of religion here just oppression of religious convictions. Your group should be ashamed of yourselves and strongly rebuked for your gross intolerance of individual freedom of expression. The General will be praised!

  35. sable May 19, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    I promised myself when I followed this article to MRFF that I would read all comments and replies and keep an open mind. I only made it through 70+ comments. I have to weigh in on this discussion. I am a Vietnam veteran and experienced pressure from command to attend Sunday service. I was raised LDS and was very conflicted about membership in a church that disenfranchised blacks and restricted women to narrow roles. It was a deeply held painful crisis of conscience. Forty years later, LDS missionaries still knock on my door several times a year. I diligently try to respectfully decline while not shaking the faith of young men who are taught that it is righteous to proselytise. I became a Liberal Quaker largely because of the Quaker history of tolerance. My faith and religious history are very private to me. I share it here to perhaps help others understand why this issue is important and not trivial.

    Tolerance is one of my core values as is a restraint from those in authority to influence subordinates. The ethical, moral and legal position of those in military leadership is to demonstrate scrupulous restraint in private matters, while in uniform or in communication with subordinates. If I may use an analogy, this equates to sexual harassment. It is using the power of position to influence or control. A person should not pressure a subordinate by word, deed or inference when in a leadership capacity. In sexual harassment it is for sex. In religion it is for conversion and compliance. The staff from MRFF have done an excellent job in articulating the legal and historical rational for opposing Major General Olsen’s actions. I hope to articulate the effect “Public Christians” have on “private Christians”. My heart pounds every time the doorbell rings and I am confronted by those fervent young men. I am brought back to the anguish I felt when deciding to leave the church of my family and all my friends in the face of considerable pressure. I have a similar reaction to “Public Christians” who ask if I am saved, offer to pray for me or engage in public prayer. The hard won condition of my soul is my private business. I deeply support everyone’s right in this country to seek their own path to spirituality. Where we diverge is when the expression of that faith intrudes upon my space. I have become quietly radical when subjected to this diminished courtesy from many Christians in this country. I feel that “Public Christians” view themselves as superior and entitled. So superior that they think it is OK to regulate reproduction, complain if I say Happy Holiday, and insert the Bible in my government. I’ve become increasingly angry as my right to a quiet private spirituality is stomped upon by those who wear their faith as a badge of righteousness. As a civilian, I can refuse to answer my door, turn off the TV, ignore intrusive comments and refuse to patronize overtly Christian establishments who refuse service to gays. I can even stand in protest of anti-abortion Christians targeting Planned Parenthood if I so choose. The military man or woman cannot. They cannot leave class, walk out on an event or argue with a superior officer. Sometimes, they can’t attend the service of their choice, such as the recruits at Great Lakes who attended pagan services. In my humble opinion perhaps those “Public Christians” are beginning to experience a well earned backlash. We should perhaps all practice courtesy, tolerance, respect and simple good manners. Serving me coffee at a diner doesn’t entitle you to ask, “Honey, do you know Jesus.” I used to smile and still leave a tip. Reading the vitriol in the comments has hardened my resolve. From now on, I am going to pleasantly say, “It offends me when strangers intrude in my private business.”

    At the most Major General Olsen violated military regulations set in place to protect religious freedom. At the least he showed a lack of the restrained and scrupulous leadership expected from a Senior Officer. Engaging in a respectful dialogue may lead us to tolerance.

  36. Shirley Wagner May 22, 2015 at 12:00 pm

    Sable, you seem incredibly intelligent. Unfortunately I could not agree any less with everything you have written. You clearly have not understood the New Testament or what our nation was founded upon. As a nation, we have not kept the vow made at it’s founding and will have to answer for that. There is nothing wrong with hoping the salvation we have received on an individual level can be shared with others. You call that “invading your space” but we are compelled to share what we know to be true. If the disciples had stayed silent and kept the gospel to themselves, they would have failed to complete the task they were instructed to embark upon. When you get to Heaven, you may hear that you cannot “invade” God’s space. I do not believe the road you are on will take you where you think you are going.

  37. Shirley Wagner May 22, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    Sable, your comment about being a “private” Christian is telling. A follower of Christ would never be ashamed of the gospel or the power of the blood shed on the cross at Calvary. Do not hide your light under a rock. It is meant to shine brighter than the son.

  38. bob gee May 23, 2015 at 6:38 am

    This is very confusing…Military Religious Freedom Foundation name implies Religious Freedom? So why are they wanting to keyhaul the General for exercising his Religious Freedom? Ya’all need to change your name if your going to want to persecute folks for religious freedom. Ever hear of this? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof… prohibiting the free exercise there of…anyone show me in the Constitution where it says a separation of church and state? Why is it ok for every other religion to be ok to speak of but not Chritianity?

  39. Foundingfather May 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    The Constitution is based on the bible and 3 philosophers. Almost every Founding Father believed in God. The Declaration of Independence even talk about God in it. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. MRFF are NAZI’s attacking freedom everywhere.

  40. Convivencia May 26, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    Hello Scooter. Re: ” Quakers did their best to end Slavery in this nation. To the extent that some renounced their faith in order to join Pennsylvania Militias and fight for the Union in the US Civil War. ” I found a source that indicate that the Draft process and legal requirements varied in both the Revolutionary War as well as the Civil War:
    United States – “During the American Revolutionary War exemptions varied by state. Pennsylvania required conscientious objectors, who would not join companies of voluntary soldiers called Associations, to pay a fine roughly equal to the time they would have spent in military drill. Quakers who refused this extra tax had their property confiscated.

    The first conscription in the United States came with the Civil War. Although conscientious objection was not part of the draft law, individuals could provide a substitute or pay $300 to hire one. By 1864 the draft act allowed the $300 to be paid for the benefit of sick and wounded soldiers. Conscientious objectors in Confederate States initially had few options. Responses included moving to northern states, hiding in the mountains, joining the army but refusing to use a weapon or imprisonment. Between late 1862 and 1864 a payment of $500 into the public treasury exempted conscientious objectors from Confederate military duty.”
    Scooter you said ” Because in or out of uniform I believe that every single person has the right to express their religious beliefs or lack of them.” You have a right to express your opinion.
    1.The “in uniform” piece isn’t permitted by law.
    2. Re: your scenario of the General, the prayer rug & Mecca – I assure you that there wouldn’t be any celebratory response from MRFF. That’s because your proposed scenario isn’t permitted by law.
    3. Re: your state of “Because it’s nearly universal that your type of Hypocrites will pander to perceived “underdogs” while attacking an established practice that has done you no harm at all. You are in fact the exact type of personality that rose to power in Germany in the 1930’s by singling out those of a particular faith for persecution.”

    4. I feel that you have an agenda – that your statements above affected me in the following way: In MY head it’s playing out like this – Because it’s nearly universal that your type of Jews will pander to perceived “underdogs” while attacking an established practice (my note here – may I add an illegitimate practice and practice doesn’t make something legal) that has done you no harm at all. Again Scooter , my note – please read the following and perhaps you’ll see that when one’s children have been harmed, good parents will feel as if they themselves have been harmed:
    Vibrant and Heated Debate: a Pitifully Misinformed Jewish Parent of USAFA Cadets vs. MRFF
    From: “Detractor”
    To: Mikey Weinstein
    Subject: A Jewish Parent’s Response to Mikey Weinstein

    From: Casey Weinstein
    To: “Detractor”
    Subject: Re: A Jewish Parent’s Response to Mikey Weinstein

    So Scooter, back to my reaction to your opinions – ” You are in fact the exact type of personality that rose to power in Germany in the 1930’s by singling out those of a particular faith for persecution.” This feels more like you are saying that the Jews caused their own problems in Germany. It is documented that first and foremost, Hitler was no friend of Christianity and also misconstrued Asatru. Any religious phony – like Hitler and like Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand put on quite a show. First, “Autos – da – Fe” and gas chambers all began with something in common – so – called (phony) Christians stealing property, money and enforcement of ethnic, racial and economic apartheid. “Sangre Pura” literally means “pure blood” which means the phony Christians did anything and everything they could do to maintain WHITE POWER fueled by neither genuine Atheism nor genuine Agnosticism within their hearts while they continued their phony Christian alliances. Please try and remember THEY WERE THEIR OWN MILITARY – phony Christianity plus their own MILITARY have historically produced lethal results.

  41. TreatyofTripoli May 26, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    @Foundingfather’s remarks make pretty clear that willful ignorance of his sort will not admit of correction. It takes very little effort in searching to come to the conclusion that most founding fathers were deists.

    Should that not be enough, there is always the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams (founding father) and ratified unanimously by the Senate. Article 11 states:
    “The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

    How ’bout that.

  42. Stu May 28, 2015 at 8:40 am

    This is stupid. If they guy wants to thank God, he has every right to do so given our First Amendent right. People wasting their time trying to get this man fired is stupid. I hope this “Mikey” Weinstein guy doesnt waste too much tax dollars because we have other things to worry about.

  43. Z June 4, 2015 at 9:02 am

    This is ridiculous. The man can’t express his beliefs and thank God for the path that He carved out for him? Facing court martial for it? This is shameful. It is also Biblical that you will be persecuted in His name, and this goes to show. We think that we live in this enlightened age today, where we are more sophisticated than our predecessors, as we strive for “tolerance” and “equality.” This couldn’t be further from the truth. Intolerance for tolerance? Inequality for equality? Makes a lot of sense. Today we are truly living in the dark ages, as stories like this go to show, that there are those that attempt to extinguish religious morality, and the light of Christ (or any faith for that matter) from this nation. “Finally, there is only one religious faith: American Patriotism.” Is this some kind of joke? You’ve obviously never been shot at. Weinstein, I believe you were the man responsible for the attempt to have my 25 brothers from 3rd Battalion 5th Marines (who lost their lives in Afghanistan in 2010) memorial crosses that stood atop a hill in Camp Pendleton, removed. Simply because they were on display for everyone to see, and they “offended” you. How dare they memorialize their fallen with a cross. Having served in both recent theaters of operations, and now honorably discharged, I’m truly ashamed of what this country has become, and I fear for my children that will have to grow up in this environment based on “tolerance.”

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