DAILY MAIL UK – Christian football team threatens legal action after officials block players from using loudspeakers in pre-match prayer

Click to read at The Daily Mail (UK) – see sidebar story, “PRAYER BEFORE AMERICAN FOOTBALL GAMES IS AN EXAMPLE OF ‘CHRISTIAN SUPREMACY‘”

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28 Comments

  1. Yeshua Warrior

    What a crock. How can two Christian schools be endorsing religion when both of them are Christian schools?

    This definitely sends the message that prayer is wrong and bad, oh yeah, that is right, Mr. Weinstein said that prayer is putried, but what does he know about prayer anyway, he does his Pharisaical prayer three times a day, but God does not hear him!

  2. Christopher Blackwell

    Yeshua Warrior,

    Please explain how not using the PA system interfered with their right to do prayer. Jesus himself condemned those who do their praying loudly in public to impress people about how religious they were and advised to pray only in private silently. God does not need a PA system in order to hear prayers, nor do they need to be made out loud. Thus these people are the very hypocrites that Jesus warned against. Strange how someone claiming to be Christian would not know what Jesus said on this subject.

  3. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. Blackwell,

    I am fully aware of the verse you are referencing about Jesus “condemning” those who pray loudly. First of all, who is Jesus talking to here, He is talking to the religious leaders of the time, because they were often wanting to be seen by men, and what Jesus meant here was not to make your prayer ostentatious. Secondly, if Jesus meant that we are not to pray in public, then why did He violate His own teaching as there are recorded stories of Him praying in public?!

    It would not have hurt anyone if the PA system was used to pray before the game. This was a game between two Christian schools, and both most likely always prayed over a PA system before every game, and those in attendance were predominately mostly Christians as it is predominately Christians who send their kids to Christian schools. I can attest to this as I had taught in the past at two separate Christian high schools.

  4. Yeshua Warrior

    Very interesting, just read this article about a poll done on over 1,000 Americans and 73% said that football coaches at public high schools should be allowed to lead players in Christian prayers before the game. Only 24% said they should not. Let me remind you that this poll was done of all types of Americans.

    http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/61779/20160129/prayers-in-public-high-school-football-games-supported-by-majority-indicates-new-survey.htm

    And No Mr. Weinstein, coaches and players who want to pray before a game are not Dominionists.

  5. Connie

    Matthew, John, and Timothy disagree on the technicalities of public prayer. The most agreed upon interpretation is prayer should be something sacred and not to be used for ‘show’. The temptation to add a bit of gloss when praying in public is within human nature which is why it’s recommended to pray in private or to oneself when in public.

    YW – we’ve had this discussion before and I thought you ceded me the point. I see you were just ignoring me, hoping I would go away. No such luck. The dogs got me up to potty outside after midnight pancakes (kibbles in their puzzle balls). I have an internet connection for once, and I must address your misinformation.

    Coaches in public schools or state colleges/universities can not lead prayer for the same reason those in the military need to check their faith when donning the uniform. They represent all of us, not just themselves in these circumstances.

    I know you believe if a person wants to bend a knee they have the right, no matter the time, place, or event. So lets try an exercise. Two public schools meet at a sporting event. It could be a College team from the State University, or as we’ve discussed recently the football team at the Air Force Academy. Based on your statements above I know you would approve the teams praying before the game, even get the coaches in on it too. It’s a beautiful thing, watching prayerful people praying.

    Now, instead of a Christian prayer, what if the coach was leading them in a prayer to Lucifer? What if the team was on the field giving praise and thanks to Satan? Are you still thrilled to see prayerful people praying on the field? How do you feel knowing those in uniform represent you and your tax dollars?

    I’m not asking this as a rhetorical question. I don’t want to take away your faith, only the blinders you wear that prohibit your acceptance that we are many on the planet and one size of faith does not fit all. If you want to have prayer on the field then everyone’s prayers are welcome. The alternative is to have a secular public square where we all learn to respect the other persons views (no faith or faith, we each have rights). Note – I said respect, not accept. I respect your right to believe as you wish, for the good of all and may it harm none. As I see it, there isn’t another way for this many people to learn how to live in peace.

    YW said = “And No Mr. Weinstein, coaches and players who want to pray before a game are not Dominionists.”

    Oh yeah, they are totally Dominionist in thinking because the only religion they recognize as worthy of protection under the Bill of Rights is their own. Hmmmm sounds a bit like you too YW.

  6. Yeshua Warrior

    Did you know that both Peyton Manning and Cam Newton are evangelical Christians, I guess there will be a lot of putred praying happening on the field of the Super Bowl today. Sure hope the networks will show it!!

  7. G

    “Did you know that both Peyton Manning and Cam Newton are evangelical Christians, I guess there will be a lot of putred praying happening on the field of the Super Bowl today. Sure hope the networks will show it!!”

    Doesn’t change the fact that the military at the AFA should not be doing public prayer at the football field.

  8. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G,

    There is nothing wrong with military football players praying on the field before or after the game.

    Did you know that at most of the college bowl games there is usually a breakfast put on by the local Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and all the players from both teams must attend? So all the players get to hear either a Christian coach or professional athlete share their testimony about their faith in Christ.

    Oh yeah, this last football season, the coaches prayed with the players before the games at my daughters public charter school, and the principal allows it and there are no complaints, imagine that. Even the cheerleaders, which my daughter is one, pray before the game on the field.

  9. G

    No YW, it is illegal for military football players to pray in public since it violates the separate clause between church and state and you should have known that by now since last year.

    “Did you know that at most of the college bowl games there is usually a breakfast put on by the local Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and all the players from both teams must attend? So all the players get to hear either a Christian coach or professional athlete share their testimony about their faith in Christ.”

    Sounds to me that the players have a case to lodge being forced to attend a religious event against their will plus Christians having a theocracy being forced down their throat something which you complain against the Muslims.

  10. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G,

    Well no college football players have complained yet, and FCA keeps putting on these bowl breakfasts all around the country every year.

    If you look carefully at the first amendment it says that “Congress shall make no law establishing a religion.” Last time I checked, the football players are not Congress, and cadets or any college students do not have to check their faith at the entrance to their college campuses. They have the right as well as any college student to express their faith as they want to.

    Did you know that at many college campuses, that FCA has offices provided for them on campus and chaplains to minister to the athletes. Pretty cool huh!

  11. G

    YW, doesn’t change the fact that military football players can not pray in public on the football field. Something that you have constantly forget time and time again.

    “Well no college football players have complained yet, and FCA keeps putting on these bowl breakfasts all around the country every year.”

    Probably because those players have been threatened to be kicked out of the school or face harassment like at the USAF Academy if they complain. Again, you complain about Muslim theocracy taking over this country, while ignoring the Christianity theocracy.

    “…cadets or any college students do not have to check their faith at the entrance to their college campuses. They have the right as well as any college student to express their faith as they want to.”

    Why don’t you tell that to the military cadets including Christian ones who are facing religious persecution at the USAF Academy because they do not belong to the Dominionist section of Christianity? You must be suffering from Alzheimer disease since you have a very, very short memory.

  12. G

    The FCA should be banned from state universities and colleges since those educational institutions are funded by the taxpayers.

  13. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G,

    Well sorry, that is not going to happen. Thousands of colleges and universities have FCA groups on their campus which, is allowed by law, to hold group meetings on campus at night for Christian athletes to attend to worship and have a bible study and invite their non believing athletes to attend to hear the bible being taught.

    Also, there are thousands of FCA groups that meet on high school campuses before or after school, also allowed by law, as well as holding events like “The Fifth Quarter” after football games on campus for Christian athletes to invite other believing and non-believing athletes to attend, eat pizza, play some games and then hear a gospel message by one of the local FCA staff people.

  14. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr G,

    Watch this clip from the Woodlawn that showed in theaters all across the country and now is available on DVD. This is based upon a true story back in 1973, Birmingham, AL. The FCA leader Hank is giving the public school football team at Woodlawn a pre-game inspirational talk.Ah, you might say that he could not do that in a public school, well prior to this scene, he asked if he could speak to the entire team in the gym, and led Every member on the team to accepting Christ as their Savior. That following summer, Hank met with the head coach and players of their rival high school Banks, and led all of them to Christ!! Who was the running back for Woodlawn, Tony Nathan, who went to star at Alabama Univ and then with the Miami Dolphins. Who was the quarterback for Banks, Jeff Rutledge who also went to Alabama, and he and Tony Nathan led Alabama to a national championship, and Rutlege also went into the NFL and was on a Super Bowl team. This movie shows what happens when God shows up and revival breaks out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uEpGu3Lfv8

    This movie was shown pre-release to the FCA group at a major college in Texas. Christian athletes invited other athletes at this school to attend and watch the movie. 124 athletes at that college gave their lives to Christ after watching the movie that night!! Notice carefully I said that they were invited, not coerced or forced by their coaches to go, but were invited by fellow teammates!!!

    I posted on all the military academies FB athletic pages that players needed to go see this movie, and if I am right, the football players at AFA took a knee after this movie came out in the theaters.

    No one can stop the move of God, He is an immovable force to be reckoned with and humans will lose every time!!!

  15. G

    Well, eventually all it takes is one person or group of people to file a complaint against those FCA groups from being allowed on the public high schools and public colleges and universities since those two institutions are supported by the taxpayers.

    “No one can stop the move of God, He is an immovable force to be reckoned with and humans will lose every time!!!”

    If I recall, Jacobs threw God all over the place in a wrestling match so you can’t say that God was immovable and that humans will lose every time.

  16. G

    “Notice carefully I said that they were invited, not coerced or forced by their coaches to go, but were invited by fellow teammates!!!”

    Do you have any solid evidence that they were not coerced or forced to attend!

    Who was the running back for Woodlawn, Tony Nathan, who went to star at Alabama Univ and then with the Miami Dolphins. Who was the quarterback for Banks, Jeff Rutledge who also went to Alabama, and he and Tony Nathan led Alabama to a national championship, and Rutlege also went into the NFL and was on a Super Bowl team. “This movie shows what happens when God shows up and revival breaks out.”

    Yeah and you had many famous athletic players, college, and NFL coaches 50 to 40 years who led their teams to victory but their victories had nothing to do with God. I don’t recall people like Vicent Lombardi, Tom Landry, John Madden, Joe Namath, etc., giving praise to God for their victories. If they lost, then they would usually say “the better team won.”

  17. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G,

    FCA is allowed on high school and college campuses according to the Equal Access Act. Even high school teachers are allowed by law to act as sponsors for the group if they meet either before or after school. So, you wanting them to be kicked off campus will never happen, for they have a legal right to be there.

    I highly doubt that God would allow Jacob to defeat Him in a wrestling match, and most theologians believe that who Jacob actually wrestled with was the pre-incarnate Christ! I believe it was God’s original intent to let wrestle Him so as to have Jacob make him bless him until he would let go. You see that God touched his hip so that as a reminder he was wrestling with God for the rest of his life. After this, Jacob responded, “I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered. After all this Jacob realized that who he was wrestling with was God and God spared his life, but also changed his name in the process to Israel, “because you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed.”

    God moved on the campus of Woodlawn and Banks because both teams turned to Christ. With Woodlawn, prayer groups broke out on campus after the team turned to Christ. Woodlawn and Banks which were bitter rivals, met during the summer before Nathan’s and Rutledge’s senior year, and they did their summer camp together. When it came down to the yearly rival game between Woodlawn and Banks, they held the game in the stadium of the University of Alabama. They did not do any pre sale of tickets and had to turn away 20,000 fans. To this day it is still the largest high school football game every watched with 43,000 fans in attendance. Before the game started, the football coach at Woodlawn asked the coach of Banks, who also came to Christ that prior summer to join him at mid-field along with Chaplain Hank and asked him to lead the stadium in saying the Lord’s prayer. They started it but the school district superintendant pulled the plug on the microphone, but then the entire stadium in unison said the Lord’s prayer together. This revival then spread to a neighboring high school and football team.

    Yes, I am sure that that the athletes at that college in Texas were not forced or coerced to attend the FCA meeting. Normally it is always by invitation of a fellow athlete.

    Bet you did not know that Coach Bear Bryant of Alabama actively donated money to FCA and he is also featured in the movie Woodlawn played by actor Jon Voight.

    Here is an article of the impact that this movie is having across the country with high school and college athletes – http://www.christianexaminer.com/article/thousands-of-teens-accept-christ-after-watching-woodlawn/49690.htm

  18. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G,

    One more thing, as long as there are other organizations allowed on a college campus whether religious or not then FCA has every right to be on a campus. The only reason I surmise that you do not want FCA on a campus is because they are Christian? Do you have a problem with the MSA (Muslim Student Association) being on hundreds of college campuses today? Did you know that the MSA is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, a known terrorist organization with ties to Hamas as well?

    According to law, the FCA can also be on middle school and high school campuses before or after school, just as much as there are allowed bible clubs to meet before or after school on campus.

    I am probably sure that there are FCA staff representatives that are assigned to all the military academies as well.

    So G, give it a rest, FCA is here to stay and nobody has filed a complaint as much as I know of against them on any college campus. Just admit it G, you hate Jesus plain and simple and what He stands for?!

  19. Yeshua Warrior

    One more thing G, I just happened to take a look at the list of religious organizations there are on the local state university campus where I live. There are 51 listed. The majority are what would be called Christian, but there are at least 2 Jewish organizations, MSA as I mentioned above, a Mormon organization as well as one or two free thinker humanist organizations. This kind of puts a dent in your thinking that FCA should not be on a public university doesn’t it??

  20. G

    “I highly doubt that God would allow Jacob to defeat Him in a wrestling match, and most theologians believe that who Jacob actually wrestled with was the pre-incarnate Christ! I believe it was God’s original intent to let wrestle Him so as to have Jacob make him bless him until he would let go. You see that God touched his hip so that as a reminder he was wrestling with God for the rest of his life.

    Again YW, God got his butt whipped by Jacob so God cheating on the wrestling match. Seems to me that God is not such a big man when he resorted to cheating by using his powers to win. Jacob did prove that God was movable. God did not touch Jacob’s hip, bu wrench its socket.

    “Yes, I am sure that that the athletes at that college in Texas were not forced or coerced to attend the FCA meeting. Normally it is always by invitation of a fellow athlete.”

    Do you have any solid facts to back up your statement?

    “God moved on the campus of Woodlawn and Banks because both teams turned to Christ. With Woodlawn, prayer groups broke out on campus after the team turned to Christ. Woodlawn and Banks which were bitter rivals,….”

    Why don’t God then move to bring the Republicans and Democrats together, if he can do it to two football teams?

    “Bet you did not know that Coach Bear Bryant of Alabama actively donated money to FCA and he is also featured in the movie Woodlawn played by actor Jon Voight.”

    Doesn’t matter if the coaches donate money to the FCA, the fact remains that many famous coaches of the bygone years did not praise God for their victory nor blame God for their defeats.

    “Did you know that the MSA is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, a known terrorist organization with ties to Hamas as well?”

    Where is your proof?

    Yeah, and a lot of Christians have ties to or are sympathetic with the right wing, homegrown white American terrorists. Remember the KKK? Lots of American police officers and religious leaders were members of that organization. When you look at the Clive Bundy standoff, many Fox newscasters were casting their lot with the right wing militia groups and were advocating violence against law enforcement.

    “So G, give it a rest, FCA is here to stay and nobody has filed a complaint as much as I know of against them on any college campus. Just admit it G, you hate Jesus plain and simple and what He stands for?!”

    No YW, people like me will not give it a rest and sooner or later, someone or some group of people will file a complaint against the FCA. It is just a question of when and where.

    You are the one that hates Jesus because you do not believe in his teachings the way you put vile statements on this website regarding your fellow human beings.

    Personally, I don’t believe that there is a divine being bringing justice to this world. As George Carlin pointed out, with all the things that are happening in this world with wars, hunger, diseases, political, social, and economic inequality, etc, if this is the best God can do, well I am not impressed and if there is a God, he needs to take responsibility for how the human race has turned out.

  21. G

    One more thing, YW, various non-Christians religious groups, agnostic, atheists, free thinkers, humanists, etc., are here to stay and they have been around as long or even longer than Christianity.

  22. G

    Final thing, the Bible say that even when the Lord pull Jacob’s hip out, Jacob still had a headlock on the lord (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2032:22-31). Yeah, God was immovable all right when he could not break out of a simple headlock and had to use his power to get himself out of the situation. If God knows everyone, then he should have realizes that he should not have even dared even attempt to wrestle Jacob.

  23. Yeshua Warrior

    Mr. G.

    Here is your proof that the MSA is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood – http://counterjihadreport.com/2014/04/10/the-truth-about-the-muslim-students-association/

    Regarding Jacob, first of all God created Jacob and if He really wanted to, He could have taken Jacob out all together. Secondly, God did not “cheat” when he touched his hip and gave him a limp for the rest of his life, that was to remind Jacob who God is. God does not have to cheat, and He does not have to play fair. Fairness is a human term which does not apply to God. God is sovereign and can do anything He wants to do no matter how humans feel about it.

    Finally, FCA has been in existence for over 60 years now working with middle school, high school, college and professional athletes, and to my knowledge I have never read of any newspaper reports of them being sued by a school. I just learned that the Oklahoma athletic hall of fame has a section in it dedicated to FCA!

  24. Yeshua Warrior

    G – here are some interesting stats from FCA’s ministry in 2015 – In 2015, over 450,000 students were reached in 14,689 Campus Huddles worldwide. Praise God for the work of FCA.

  25. G

    “Here is your proof that the MSA is tied to the Muslim Brotherhood – http://counterjihadreport.com/2014/04/10/the-truth-about-the-muslim-students-association/

    What proof? If that is proof, then the FBI should have shut them down a long time ago.

    “Regarding Jacob, first of all God created Jacob and if He really wanted to, He could have taken Jacob out all together. Secondly, God did not “cheat” when he touched his hip and gave him a limp for the rest of his life, that was to remind Jacob who God is. God does not have to cheat, and He does not have to play fair. Fairness is a human term which does not apply to God. God is sovereign and can do anything He wants to do no matter how humans feel about it.”

    Well God did not take Jacob out. Like I say, if God knows everything, he should have not tried to take on Jacob in a wrestling match and God did cheat and he should play fair if he wants his followers to set a positive example to others. Otherwise, what is the point of it all? If you have people who think that they are sovereign people and don’t care what others think, so I guess they reflect God since God created them in his own image.

    “I have never read of any newspaper reports of them being sued by a school.”

    Probably it is not reported, because unless its bleeds, it doesn’t lead and you have too many media outlets tied in with the religious right so they are not going to expose such things let alone do some kind of investigate reporting.

    ” In 2015, over 450,000 students were reached in 14,689 Campus Huddles worldwide. Praise God for the work of FCA.”

    Yeah, and how many of these students will drop out because they are trying to look for work, trying to do their school work, working long hours at work and/or they realizes that religion does not put food in their bellies, a roof over their heads, put clothes on their backs, or protects them from bosses who keep squeezing more pounds flesh out of their bodies while getting nothing from the bosses in return?

  26. G

    YW, if God created everyone in his own image, then he must have done a poor job when he created Jacob because he should have beaten Jacob in wrestling.

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