I think you are missing the point

  At first I thought you were doing a good thing, then I started reading on and on about your cause.  Look everyone who comes to this country has a right to worship as they see fit but to say that the United States needs to keep God out is very, very wrong.  This nation was based on Christian principles, if it wasn’t for God our nation would never have survived.  As this nation pulls further and  further away from God the greater is the danger that we as a nation & we as a people will no longer exist.  I spent over 10 years in The Marine Corps and we have always said for God, Corps, & Country, notice how God is first then the Corps and then the Country last.  That is how it should always be, God has to be first in everything we do because without God’s good grace we would have never existed.  This other crap saying that we are offending other people is a load of shit, everybody says we have to accept people as they are but yet you will not accept us praying or even mentioning God.  This political correctness crap is for the birds, we have more important things to worry about.
  Right now is a very critical time in our history, we have Muslims living in this country and at the same time we are at War with Islam.  I have no problem with Muslims as long as they are peaceful and arewilling to live among us as honest, good hard working Americans.  But as we have seen and what we have seen now Radical Islam and what they are capable of doing.  It scares the Hell out of all of us, and they do not know how to coexist among others, even amongst their own.  Trump was correct in saying we need to close the borders to anyone that is of Muslim faith until we can find a way to be able to distinguish between radical Islam and non-radical Islam.  To be honest I believe there needs to be unannounced inspections of all Mosque until they are determined that they are not teaching radical Islam in their churches.     That should also go to any church who’s congregation starts blowing buildings up or conducting mass murder for the sake of their religion.
(name withheld)

Dear (name withheld),
I know the places where you are reading about us and they are deliberately leaving out important information in order to instill fear and anger in our Christians to use them to force America to turn our military into modern day Crusaders.
My father and uncles fought in WWII and I have two books on his Battalion with maps of the battles they fought in. Nowhere in those books is any mention of God before country.
In one book is a picture of my father (who was a Sgt. in the Army) receiving the Soldiers Medal for saving fellow soldiers involved in an incident at their base. He went on to win other medals.
My brother fought in the Vietnam War with the Marines and years ago I asked him if God was placed before the Corps and his response was “hell, no.”
We are neither an atheist organization nor are we anti-Christian. Mikey is Jewish (and prays to the same Father we do 3 times a day) and 88% of the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters (300 in total) of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) are Christians. In fact, 96% of our 45,500+ soldier clients (1 can represent many) are Christians – Catholics, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodist, Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. We fight for the rights of these Christians more than any other religion but it never makes the news.
We ONLY step in when a soldier or soldiers complain to us of the trampling of the Constitution, Supreme Court rulings and military laws, when their chain of command ignores them.
Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor said in the SCOTUS case McCreary v. ACLU on the Ten Commandments “It is true that many Americans find the Commandments in accord with their personal beliefs. But we do not count heads before enforcing the First Amendment.”
In other words, the majority doesn’t rule over the minority where First Amendment rights are concerned.
She also said “The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person’s standing in the political community. Government can run afoul of that prohibition in two principal ways. One is excessive entanglement with religious institutions, which may interfere with the independence of the institutions, give the institutions access to government or governmental powers not fully shared by nonadherents of the religion, and foster the creation of political constituencies defined along religious lines. The second and more direct infringement is government endorsement or disapproval of religion. Endorsement sends a message to nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community. Disapproval sends the opposite message.”
Her statement is based on past SCOTUS Establishment Clause rulings regarding entanglement of any government entity with religion:
Jefferson’s concept of “separation of church and state” first became a part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878). In that case, the court examined the history of religious liberty in the US, determining that while the constitution guarantees religious freedom, “The word ‘religion’ is not defined in the Constitution. We must go elsewhere, therefore, to ascertain its meaning and nowhere more appropriately, we think, than to the history of the times in the midst of which the provision was adopted.” The court found that the leaders in advocating and formulating the constitutional guarantee of religious liberty were James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Quoting the “separation” paragraph from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, the court concluded that, “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.
In 1878 “separation of church and state” became part of the Establishment Clause by law.
The Supreme Court heard the Lemon v. Kurtzmacase in 1971 and ruled in favor of the Establishment ClauseSubsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the Lemon Test:
Government action violates the Establishment Clause unless it:
1. has a significant secular (i.e., non-religious) purpose,
2. does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion
3. does not foster excessive entanglement between government and religion
Parker v. Levy:
“This Court has long recognized that the military is, by necessity, a specialized society separate from civilian society… While the members of the military are not excluded from the protection granted by the First Amendment, the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections. … The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it… Speech [in any form] that is protected in the civil population may nonetheless undermine the effectiveness of response to command.  If it does, it is constitutionally unprotected.” (Emphasis added) Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 1974
One of the reasons that were taken into consideration was that the bible was never included in the original POW/MIA table.
Col. John M. Devillier is the installation commander and his spokesman paraphrased AFI (Air Force Instruction) 1-1, Sections 2.11.and 2.12:
 “Our leaders and personnel are encouraged to accommodate the free exercise of religion and other personal beliefs, including freedom of expression unless it has an adverse impact on mission accomplishment,” he wrote. “Air Force leaders must carefully balance constitutional protections of individuals’ free exercise of religion or other personal beliefs with the constitutional separation of church and stateThey must ensure their actions cannot reasonably be construed to officially endorse, disapprove of, or extend preferential treatment to any faith or absence of faith.”
The bible on the table violates AFI 1-1, sections 2.11 and 2.12, the Constitution, Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878), Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Lemon Test and Parker v. Levy.
Plus, the Christian bible on the table does not represent all of the POW/MIA’s.
Trump also said “The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don’t kid yourself. When they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families.”
This is worse than America rounding up the Japanese and putting them in camps during WWII. They weren’t killed but they lost their homes, possessions and jobs all because of their nationality and Trump want’s to kill their families because of their religion.
The leaders of our military stated that they will not follow this if Trump is elected President.
Our soldiers swear an oath to defend the Constitution (so help me God at the end is optional) not the Bible or Christianity.
For our military to place God above country shows the world that our wars are religious wars.
According to Thomas Jefferson our laws protect the freedom of all religions and those of no religion in America and going into Mosques to monitor them is against our First Amendment:
“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”
As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
Treaty of Tripoli:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
.The Constitution reflects our founder’s views of a secular government protecting the freedom of any belief or unbelief.
 The historian, Robert Middlekauff, observed, “The idea that the Constitution expressed a moral view seems absurd. There were no genuine evangelicals in the Convention, and there were no heated declarations of Christian piety.”
 “The Salem witchcraft was the rock on which the theocracy shattered”. George Lincoln Burr (1857 – 1938), Professor of History and Librarian at Cornell University
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788
“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

“The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

“Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history. 
James Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, EcclesiasticalEndowments
 “God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”
Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”
James Madison 1785 Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments
“The purpose of the separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
James Madison
“The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State “
James Madison’s Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819
According to our Founding Fathers the Constitution is not based on Christianity or biblical law.
The Constitution and subsequent Supreme Court rulings uphold the separation of church and state and prohibits any government entity – which includes our military – from supporting or advancing any religion. If the military obeyed these laws and regulations we wouldn’t be having this fight.
We are not against the civilian population from practicing Christianity or any other faith or those of no faith.
Pastor Joan
MRFF Advisory Board Member

Dear (name withheld),
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You believe that the United
States government is at war with Islam. Specifically, with Islamic
practitioners who wish to take power over others and co-opt government
authority.  You also believe that the United States government exists to
bolster your religion, and that your religion ought to have state sponsored
> Do you notice anything, dare I say it,  hypocritical?
> I’m an American. A veteran. A taxpayer. A small business owner and newly
minted job creator.  I’m not Christian.  In your view does that last label
compromise my ability to carry the first I listed?  In your view is my
identity contradictory?
> To be very clear, I believe that any religion that makes a person happy,
without taking from or imposing on others, should be freely and vibrantly
celebrated. Pray to whomever you like. But don’t dare try to steal my
country from me. Don’t contribute to the erasure of our country’s original
motto. E Pluribus Unum.  If you must forget it, recognize that I will not,
and that the Military Religious Freedom Foundation will not.
> Cheers,
> Blake A. Page
> Military Religious Freedom Foundation
> Special Assistant to the President
> Director of US Army Affairs

Dear (name withheld),

You know, I have to say it makes me a bit sick to hear this stuff from a former Marine. But I guess, this being a free country, one can believe as one chooses.

But you see,  (name withheld),that’s the point. People in America can believe as they choose to believe. That goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Zoroastrians, atheists, Scientologists, Buddhists or whatever. That’s what we call freedom of religion or freedom of belief, because some don’t believe in any religion.

I realize it’s a basic tenet for certain Christians that this country was founded on Christian principles, but that’s simply false. The Founders were of varying belief systems and agreed that our country would separate church and state in order to protect everyone’s belief system or non-belief system, whatever it was.
Now you, claiming to have first thought what we at the MRFF are doing is a good thing, changed your mind after “reading on and on about (our) cause.” I trust the “reading” you were doing was not material from us but rather some of the twisted garbage that is heaped on us by zealots who fear that our work might undermine their efforts to Christianize the country. I assume it was one of them that led you to the belief that we “say that the United States needs to keep God out.” That, to borrow your crass phrase, is “a load of shit” and has nothing to do with the work of the MRFF.
I see that you believe we’re pulling away from God and that brings us close to destruction. Again, you’re welcome to that belief, but it is not shared by everyone. Some people have a much more hopeful view, sometimes based on faith and other times based on a belief in the fundamental value of humankind.
You see, I take issue with your crassly stated belief that some of what Americans do offends other people is “a load of shit.” In fact, some of what Americans do does offend other people. So many good Americans recognize that racism, sexism and religious bias in our country is offensive and do what they can to rectify statements attitudes and laws that reflect negatively on others.
Your suggestion that we “will not accept (you) praying or even mentioning God” is another load of your favorite expression. The MRFF supports everyone’s right to believe and pray as they choose, as long as it is done in the proper time, place and manner described by law and military regulations. What we oppose is the promoting, by the government, of one faith or belief system over the others. We support the Constitution and are intent on protecting everyone’s belief system by ensuring that the government, in our case the military, does not promote or appear to promote one belief system over any other.
So you’re welcome to your belief, including the belief that Marines proclaim they serve and fight for God, Corps and Country. I can only tell you that’s not the way it was in my unit.
As for your political pronouncements, no one here cares.
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)


As far as someone saying Hell No to God being placed before the Corps, I ask you to please go to this link and read http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/aamarines.htm, go to the first picture and in the paragraph that begins with “N”.

This is the first time in history that I am aware of where we were not fighting a nation but an idea of religious believes.  This makes being in the service today very difficult for anyone, but the fact is we are so busy training our soldiers in political correctness and sexual harassment we are not giving enough training in what they really need and that is how to fight, shoot, and become affective killing machine.  In one commentary I heard over the radio is that our military is ranked #28 in this world as far as being a good military, China was #1

(name withheld)


Dear (name withheld),



The sign was removed under the laws and regulations I sent you.




Moral and ethical does not mean godly. There are many atheists in the Marines and those of other faiths.


If some Marines want to put God before country, that is their personal belief, but no military branch can recruit using God as the reason to fight under our laws.

Joan Slish




I think you are full of shit to say that in your unit it was not for God, Corps, & Country.  I had served with individuals who has been in the Marine Corps over 20 years.  One in particular was my company Gunny who spent 2 years in Vietnam and he believes for God, Corps, & Country.  Also who do you think the puritans were?????  They sure the hell weren’t Muslim, come to think about until certain faiths can prove that they can live like decent human beings and not go around blowing up malls, parades, marathons or anything else that the radical Islam hits I am not sure I would want them serving with me.  Now you think I am a bigot and that is far from it, I do not mind Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Protestants or even Atheist.  The fact of the matter is ever since 9/11 I cannot convince myself to trust certain nationalities or certain religions (Muslim).  I even work with one and he is a very nice man, he prays his Muslim believes at work, he goes thru that bit where they cannot eat, smoke, and whatever they are not allowed to do during that time and he does it every time he is suppose too. After working with him for several years I can honestly say I believe I can trust him.  Now I also do not believe that Gays should be allowed in the military either, why you might ask well for starters no one should forced to sleep or take a shower with someone who is attracted to the same sex.  It is no different than if a normal male would take a shower or sleep in the same tent with a woman.  That would make most women very uncomfortable as they should, I would even feel uncomfortable because the only woman I want to see in the shower is my wife.

Yes your are right that this is a free country and everyone has there right to believe in what ever they want.  But today no matter what you say or do you are going to offend someone in this age.  I mean lets get real for a second, I seen a report where our own military is like #28 as far as best trained.  China is #1 and you know why?  Because we are training are soldiers to be politically correct, classes on sexual harassment, classes on how not to offend someone in another country, training on being peace keeper and policeman.  Soldiers are suppose to be trained for KILLING THE ENEMEY, that is what we as soldiers are suppose to do.  But instead Obama and all the Politian’s are cutting and cutting the military budget to the point where soldiers can only fire the weapon a couple of times a year (during peacetime).  How can they get proficient in firing a weapon a couple of times a year??

(name withheld),

Dear (name withheld),
You make me think of a UNCF slogan, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.”

I don’t care what your gunny believed. He’s welcome to his thoughts, just as you, sadly, are free to operate with a mind so closed. The Marine Corps, however, is not a religious organization. It is open to women and men of all faiths and belief systems, including none, and to those who are gay or straight.

I realize that’s a problem for you, but it’s the price of living in a free country in the 21st Century. You can beef and bitch and moan all you’d like because you have the freedom of speech, but being free to spout your bullshit doesn’t make it right.

Fortunately, the beliefs locked into your tightly compressed little mindset do not hold sway today, leaving you to live with them while the rest of us enjoy life.

Rather than go point by point through your sad, rambling tirade, let me make only a couple of points. You are not a bigot, you say, because you “do not MIND Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Protestants or even Atheist (sic).” How incredibly (and revealingly) tolerant of you. The rest of your self-indicting rant speaks for itself.

As regards your biting analysis of the failings of our military today, let me clarify one point. You suggest “Soldiers are suppose (sic) to be trained for KILLING THE ENEMEY (sic).” I think you’ll find, if you look, that they are trained to defend our country.

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)



Good Afternoon, (name withheld) –

Thanks for your note to the MRFF.  Mikey Weinstein has read it, as he does all correspondence received by the organization, and asked me to provide a response. I’ve been a staunch supporter of the MRFF for the past several years — I’m also a lifelong Christian, a USAF Academy graduate (’85), and a veteran USAF officer.
With all due respect, we are not “missing the point” at all. Your suggestion that America was founded on Christian principles and, as a result, is in some way a Christian nation is incorrect. It is true that our founding generation included individuals who were people of faith just as today, the citizenry of our country, and the ranks of our government and military officials, include people of faith. But our founders were prescient in crafting a Constitution that provides two things — a level playing field for all citizens of every manner of belief (including non-belief), and a firm prohibition against sectarian religious influence on our government institutions (which, of course, includes our military).
Surely you will recall from your own time in the USMC, every member of the US military both present and past is connected to one another by an oath — to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same.  As a Christian, I agree wholeheartedly with you on one point — that for believers such as you and I, “God has to be first in everything we do.” But we must also allow others to choose their own beliefs, even if they differ from our own. To do any less than that is to dangerously undermine one of the dearest principles upon which our country was founded. This has nothing to do with “political correctness” or “offending” anyone.  It has everything to do with remaining true to the oath that we took when we entered the military.
As to the second half of your email, let me be brutally frank. Your position seems to be one of fearful bigotry.  Not that I’m suggesting you don’t have a right to feel concern about the current world situation. But when you speak in such broad terms about Muslims, and in particular Muslim-Americans, I’m reminded of the “yellow scare” during WWII that resulted in more than 100,000 people, by the mere fact that they lived and on west coast and looked like the enemy, being stripped of their Constitutional rights and placed in internment camps. Nearly 2/3 of those people were American citizens. Similarly, if you think unannounced inspections of mosques is the way to go, I assume you’d be willing to allow the same intrusion into Christian churches, given the fact that some of the most notorious terroristic figures in America over past several decades have been home-grown, All-American Christians. Of course, my own position is that such a step would be wrong and grievously unconstitutional in both cases.
So be of strong faith, pray as you feel called to do, and actively live out the precepts of your faith in everything you do. Just don’t compromise the rights and freedoms of other Americans in the process.
Mike Challman
Christian, USAF veteran, MRFF supporter


(name withheld)


You poor, sad, angry man. I’m so sorry you choose to so misunderstand us and that you

continue to be the victim of your own fears. I wish I could help, but it’s clear that I can’t.

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


Dear Joan,

What the hell was wrong with that sign??? I tell you what is wrong with it NOT A DAMN THING.

(name withheld)


Dear (name withheld),
The military disagrees with you:
“A poster with the phrase “On a mission for both God and country” on display outside a Phoenix recruiting station was removed Friday morning, an Army Recruiting Command spokesman said, hours after theunapproved display was brought to the command’s attention.
The poster, which features a Special Forces patch along with Ranger, Airborne and Special Forces tabs, includes “a stock image” the command makes available for local recruiters, spokesman Brian Lepley said in an email, “but the text was changed by the local recruiting personnel” and not cleared by command headquarters.
“Had the process been followed, the copy shown would not have been approved,” Lepley said.
The sign as written shouldn’t have been there in the first place because according to our laws we can’t entangle religion with any government entity.

Dear Joan,

I just read this response to some misogynist bigot “retired soldier” who tried to brow beat you into admitting that your atheist family members in fire fights during WWII, the Vietnam War, and the Iraqi War actually prayed to a God they don’t believe in. His argument: “There are no atheists in fox holes.”

Your shut down is classic!

“Dear (name withheld),

You assume too much. They were in heavy combat in WWII, the Vietnam War and the Iraqi War and relied on their buddies to have their backs…not God. First Amendment rights are guaranteed to soldiers of all beliefs or none, not just Christians. Apparently you didn’t read the laws I gave you concerning religious neutrality in the military or are choosing to ignore them. We try to educate people and don’t mind a civilized debate but when someone sinks to ad hominem attacks the conversation is over because we really don’t care about what you think or your opinion. Any response will be deleted upon arrival without opening it.

Joan Slish”

Since women can’t grow balls, you sure have some iron ovaries, Sister. Good on you! Carry on being a voice for all of us who stand by the Constitution and a religious-neutral military.

(name withheld)

















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  1. Rev Bob

    Pastor Joan,
    That is the best you can do, just two books, that does not prove anything! May I recommend that you read the Mayflower Compact which comes before any Treaty of Tripoli!

    As an alleged Christian Pastor Joan, you should know that God does come before everything! When you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are to put Him first before anyone or anything, including your spouse, country, church, job, and children.

  2. Mark Sebree

    Rev Bob,

    I recommend that you actually pay attention to the dates of history. The Mayflower Compact was written for the Mayflower Colony which was settling in the New World, 200 years before our nation was founded. It does NOT have anything to do with whether or not our nation was founded on “Christian beliefs” or “the Bible”, as historical revisionists like you want to claim. The Treaty of Tripoli, on the other hand, was written in the very early days of our country by our Founding Fathers to the Muslims of Tripoli, and thus actually does reflect their views on our nation’s founding.

    And permanently civilian Rev Bob, YOU should know that when you take the oath of enlistment or commission and wear the uniform of a member of the United States Military, you are to put OUR COUNTRY before everything else, including your family, your religion, and your deity.

    And which “two books” are you referring to? Pastor Joan references numerous authoritative sources for her quotes, as well as cites her sources so we can check them ourselves if we are so inclined.

  3. Tom O

    AGAIN a theocrat writes “This nation was based on Christian principles.”
    AGAIN, (4th time on various threads of this website) I ask what are those specific “Christian principles”? Principles which are not uniquely Christian are NOT a valid answer to that question.
    AGAIN the theocrats will ignore the question, showing us that they have no answer. What does that show us about their level of basic intellectual honesty?

  4. Tom O

    For more about how public reaction to the Treaty of Tripoli refutes the theocrats’ “America was founded on Christianity” claims, see comments at


  5. Rev Bob

    Sorry, but any truly born again Christian soldier will always put his Lord before his country!
    God before country always and forever!

  6. Mark Sebree

    Rev Bob,

    So you are saying that no “truly born again Christian soldier” should be serving in any branch of the US Military. If a service member cannot put his country before all, then he or she does not belong in the military. In the military, it is ALWAYS Country before any deity, including your own interpretation of your mythology. You WILL be required to follow orders which contradict your mythology. You almost certainly will be required to room with, work with, and answer to people who have diametrically opposing beliefs to your own. And you will NOT have any say in the matter. What’s more, because of the fact that good order and morale are extremely important in any military unit, you will NOT be allow to proselytize to your fellow service members, and especially to your subordinates.

    This is why I called you a “permanent civilian”. You do not understand the military culture, and you refuse to even try to understand the specific demands that being in the military can and does place on all of its members. You would fail as a military member, and perhaps spectacularly.

  7. XaurreauX

    Apparently, Rev. Bob needs the full force of the United States government and military to prop up his religion. That’s about what one can expect from someone who seems to lack the faith and the class to spread it by example.

  8. G

    Well said Mark Sebree

  9. G

    “Apparently, Rev. Bob needs the full force of the United States government and military to prop up his religion. That’s about what one can expect from someone who seems to lack the faith and the class to spread it by example.”

    Yeah, and it never ceases to amaze me how military people stated that God will protect; however, they still carry firearms to protect themselves from the enemy.

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