Response to E-Mail

From: (Name Withheld)
Date: April 8, 2016 at 10:57:49 AM CDT
To: Mikey Weinstein
Subject: Re: Response to E-Mail 

I’d like to offer profuse and sincere thanks to Mikey and the MRFF for addressing an unfortunate situation at Wright Patterson AFB. The POW-MIA display in the hospital dining facility was displaying the bible as representative of the faith of all uniformed men. This both fails to represent my faith and only honors a subset of those who have served honorably and been captured or are missing. We owe all these service members the respect they deserve. 

The MRFF had numerous complaints about this display and they addressed these concerns promptly, professionally, and without personal bias. I cannot thank the organization enough for their tremendous efforts. I encourage them to continue their excellent work, ensuring personal faith and patriotic service are not inappropriately intertwined. 

Rather than promoting one faith over another, or the absence of faith overall, the MRFF is ensuring that the military defends the freedoms we hold dear: that every soldier has the freedom to practice their chosen faith free of coercion. 

Sincerely, (Name Withheld)

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50 Comments

  1. Holy Rebel

    You may remove every bible from every POW/MIA table,however, you will never stop its influence and power to change a person’s life forever.

    The bible has and will continue to be the best selling book of all time, and God has said “so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
    it shall not return to me empty,
    but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
    and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11

    There will always be a bible found on a teachers desk, the bed of military servicemen, and even the desk of the president of the United States, in the pocket of many nurses, in the backpack of elementary through high school students, college students and even on professors desks. Try as you and atheists may, you will never wipe out the bible, the Word of God.

    Have a blessed day!

  2. Connie

    Drama holy rebel is dramatic.

    For the love of Pete, the MRFF doesn’t want to eliminate Domionists, they want them to follow the same rules as the rest of civilized folk. I know that interferes with the persecution complex every Domionist seems to wear on their shoulder but facts are facts.

  3. Holy Rebel

    Connie,

    We are civilized! We work regular 9-5 jobs like the rest of society, we are soccer moms and cheer dads, coach Little League, are public and private school teachers, we sit as judges on civil and superior courts, we pay our taxes like the rest of society.

    Let me just say, the term Dominist is a derogatory term by those who do not understand what we believe as one person said recently.

    I have known Christians from all kinds of denominations for the last 40 years now and I have never heard anyone or heard any teachings that say we are to take over the United States! What you call Dominionism is what Jesus called all believers to be salt and light to the world and to be an influence for Him in all parts of society today.

  4. Connie

    Holy Rebel,

    Here is the catch – do you consider anyone who doesn’t believe just as you do as part of ‘civilization’? This means those who are Heathen, Pagan, Atheist, and Islam are protected. It means LGBTQA folk are protected (as are all cis gender folk already). .

    That is the definition of civilized – does your idea differ? Because I believe that you, holy rebel, have an issue with ‘otherness’. I believe you believe to your core that your holy book’s moral stance should be the basis for equality in the USA. That makes you a Christian supremacist and theocrat if not a full blown Dominionist.

    I have a good idea that first comes the laws of man to govern us all, then come the laws of faith if you choose to believe. That way all those of faith or lack of faith are equal in the eyes of law. If I recall my texts correctly both the bible and the constitution back me up on this good idea.

  5. Holy Rebel

    Connie,

    Yes, those who do not believe the way I do are part of civilization because they are human, however, I do not believe that those of the LGBTQ community deserve any more special treatment or rights other than those granted by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What this means is that transgenders do not deserve equal access to the women’s bathroom or changing rooms just because they are mentally ill and need of inner healing and deliverance, just because they feel like they are a woman trapped inside a man’s body. My daughter and any other women’s right for privacy and protection in their own bathroom come before any man dressing like a woman.

    Where the laws of men contradict the laws of God found in His Word, then Christians must obey the laws of God no matter what the cost may be, especially when it refers to the separation of church and state.

  6. Tom O

    “Let me just say, the term Dominist is a derogatory term by those who do not understand what we believe.” Look at the comments for the April 4 inbox item titled “POW/MIA remembrance table”and read Holy Rebel’s post at 5:37PM April 5, whichincludes “All governments are under His reign and control. One day all nations, peoples, tribes and tongues will bow their knee to the Jewish Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.” Yeah, nothing Dominionist about that!!
    “Christians must obey the laws of God no matter what the cost may be, especially when it refers to the separation of church and state.” What are “the laws of God” which “refer[s] to the separation of church and state”? How about “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render unto God what is God’s”? Also “My kingdom is not of this world.” Where did I read those words?

  7. Connie

    Fancy words holy rebel, designed to lead a person to believe you are enlightened. Too bad your comments on Trans folk reveals what is really in your heart.

    Before you continue to spew trash please educate yourself. There is a video – ID2P. It explains much better than I the foolish idea that a MtF transgender person belongs in the men’s room. Or the reverse – FtM belonging in the women’s room. Trans aren’t sick, no more than the rest of is mixed up humans.

    And for the record? The only people shouting about men in a dress in a woman’s restroom are the Christian supremacists and Domionists. Hmmmmmm.

    Thank you Tom O for reminding Holy Rebel that he talks out of both sides of his face. I appreciate your commenting, here and in other threads.

  8. Holy Rebel

    Tom,

    When you are the Son of God like Jesus is, he can be a dominionist if He chooses to be! Jesus did say that His kingdom was not of this world, but then the apostle John who wrote the book of Revelation under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit says that when Christ returns, He will return to Jerusalem and set His foot on the Mount of Olives and then He will sit on the throne of his descendant King David where He will rule with a rod of iron and rule over all the nations. It even says that during His 1,000 year reign on earth, all the nations must go to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles or they will be destroyed.

    To render unto Caesar what is Caesars was referring to whom the Jews were to pay their taxes to. That had nothing to do with separation of church and state!

    What are the laws of God referring to the separation of church and state. In the book of Acts, the disciples were ordered to stop preaching in the name of Jesus by the Jewish authorities to which they responded, “we must obey God rather than man.” When man’s laws conflict with the laws or commandments of God, we must obey God rather than man. Examples, as a public school teacher I will have a bible on my desk. If I am a Christian coach, I will pray with my players by voluntary. If a student asks a teacher what they believe as a Christian, the teacher has the freedom to respond and tell the student. As a Christian in a pubic school and they tell me I cannot wear the Christian t-shirt I am wearing, I will tell the administration that they have no right to tell me I cannot wear that shirt.

  9. Holy Rebel

    Connie,

    If a man wants to dress like a woman, I have no problem with that, but when the government wants to impose their morality which could affect the safety of my daughter or spouse in their own bathroom, that is where I draw the line. There have been several states that have drawn up “bathroom bills” which would allow trans men to use the women’s bathroom and changing rooms in gyms or if any guy one days he feels like he is a woman that day to do the same, thankfully hose bills have been defeated. And no Connie, it is not just Dominionists that are shouting out about these bills or issue, it is regular tax payer Evangelical Christians who are shouting against this because they do not want to put their daughters in jeopardy by any would be pedophile who could take advantage of this legislation. I am sorry, but my daughters safety comes before any man who dresses like or feels like he is a woman and I will block any would be person like that from entering any restroom my daughter happens to be using!!

    By the way, I am sure there are not just Christians who are opposed to this but I am sure there also conservative Jews as well as conservative Catholics and Mormons who are opposed to these bills as well.

  10. Holy Rebel

    Tom,

    Here is another example of not obeying the separation of church and state. Last year the mayor of Houston, demanded that certain pastors submit transcripts of their sermons, partly because these pastors spoke out about the “Bathroom Bill” and against it, so the mayor wanted the transcripts to see where these pastors spoke out against homosexuality. All the pastors refused to submit transcripts to the mayor!!

  11. Connie

    Holy Rebel,

    I asked you to educate yourself and instead you vomit out right wing propaganda. If you really want to eliminate the threat from pedophiles why not switch your hunt from the transgender population to evangelical Christian ministers?

    Oh yeah. You and those like you would rather run in circles screaming and shouting about an issue that has no basis in fact. You and those like you turn a blind eye to the multitude of arrests and convictions relating to child molestation within the evangelical community. Why are you so focused on chasing your own tail while ignoring the enemy within?

    Your ‘bathroom bills’ are just another form of legalized discrimination. As for your snide comment of man in a dress for today… Your eyes are closed and you refuse to open them.

    I pity you.

  12. Connie

    Holy Rebel,
    I followed Tom O’s lead and went searching for your old comments. While I was looking I found this:

    “I think it is interesting that while Mikey and the MRFF is removing bibles from VA hospital POW/MIA tables, the legislature of Tennessee has voted to make the bible the official book of the state, all that is left to do is for the governor to sign it into law which I pray he does. Hows that for separation of church and state??!! God bless Tennessee!!”

    Holy rebel – Yeshua warrior – Domionist – betrayer of the US Constitution. I judge you a troll no matter your name. My responses will be modified appropriately.

  13. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    Yes, I am Holy Rebel, Yeshua Warrior, but not a dominionist. Some people have told me that I should stop hiding behind a facade, so here I am, I am Rev Bob. I am an evangelical Charismatic believer. I am an ordained Charismatic minister, father, and proud cheer dad to a beautiful teenage daughter. I am also a strong Christian Zionist who believes that the land of Israel only belongs to the Jewish people and to no other, given to them by divine right to Abraham and his descendants forever!

    Not sure how I am a betrayer of the US Constitution? The only thing I disagree with in the Constitution is the separation of church and state and will disobey it ever chance I get to no matter what the cost is to myself!

    Yes, there has been molestation by some ministers in the evangelical church, but churches have become more pro-active in now requiring their children and youth workers to go through background checks as well as some fingerprinting. This is something I do not hear the Catholic church doing with their priests, if a priest molests someone, they just move them onto a new parish where they can do it again. At least churches do not telegraph and give an open door to would pedophiles like these bathroom bills are doing. These bathroom bills are for the safety for all women and children against any would be voyeurs or pedophiles.

    I am sorry, bathrooms should remain gender specific. God made us male and female, not male, female, transgender, bi-sexual, etc. No matter how much estrogen Bruce Jenner pumps into his body, and wears women clothes, he will always be a biological male, same with any female who transitions to a male, they will always still have the DNA of a man or a woman and nothing can change that! These bathroom bills are nothing but pure insanity and madness by our society that is going to hell in a handbasket.

    I just heard on the radio yesterday, that the head person for a woman’s shelter said that if a man comes into the shelter, even dressed as a man and thinking he is a woman, they cannot refuse him and he would have equal access to the shower facility, changing rooms, etc. Think about it, there are women there who may already be tramatized by either domestic violence, rape etc, why should their personal safety and emotional well being be impositioned in any way? If you see there is nothing wrong with this, then Connie you are one screwed up lady who needs a dose of reality.

    Yes I will always discriminate when it comes to the safety of my daughter or any other woman. As a father, I have the legal right to protect my daughter!!

    I am thankful that my daughter goes to a public charter school where the coaches there have the freedom to pray with their athletes before games or cheer competitions. The athletes are the ones leading the prayer but the coaches join in.

    I am glad I have a very strong Charismatic Christian daughter who loves the Lord, loves and supports the nation of Israel and will fight hard for religious freedoms against the tyranny of the state who try to suppress or deny them!!

  14. Connie

    Rev Bob – thank you for coming out of the internet closet. That could not have been easy.

    The cornerstone which makes the USA unique is separation of church and state. And you just said that is the one thing you can’t do. (Do you still wonder why I call you a traitor to the Constituion?)

    The law states you have the right to your opinion. The law states you have the right to say what you will.

    I must recognize your rights even as I disagree with 99.99% of everything you say, do, and think. Even as you disagree with LGBTQA folk you must do the same Rev Bob – recognize their rights.

    Here is a fact: transgender folk are more likely to face abuse (everything from verbal to physical and too often death) when forced to use the restroom matching their birth gender. I’m fairly certain when you die and meet Christ he will ask you why you treated him this way for didn’t he say what you do to the least (most marginalized) of me you do to me?

  15. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    Couple more things, I would rather be considered a Jesus-centered counterculture revolutionary. So it is time to start the non-violent revolution against our culture that opposes God!!

    Also, I like this quote and stand by it – “I would rather stand with God and be judged by the world, than stand with the world and be judged by God.”

  16. Connie

    Third time I’ve commented. Not sure what happened to the previous ‘published’ comments. I’ll try again.

    I had an eloquent paragraph about rights and marginalized peoples. It was really good but seeing your additional comment Rev Bob… Yeah, I’m not wasting my words.

    I won’t convince you as your mind is made up, no matter your opinion flies in the face of the facts. I named you traitor to the Constitution and every word you write confirms my opinion.

    History is filled with ‘Jesus centric’ governments. We call them theocracies – the very thing the founding fathers wanted to avoid. Given your misunderstanding of Jesus Christ’s instructions to take care of each other (and yes, I’m paraphrasing here) I’m not surprised you got the Constitution and the founding fathers wrong too.

  17. Connie

    Just refreshed (again) and there was my previous good words paragraph. Weird.

  18. Connie

    Cleared my cache, came back in and my good words comment is gone again.

  19. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    I am not wanting a theocracy, that will happen anyway when Jesus returns and sets up his earthly kingdom from Jerusalem.

    You only have a limited knowledge of the teachings of Jesus Connie. Yes we are to take care of each other but He also said that I have come to set a father against his children and a mother against her daughter. Jesus also said “do not thing that I have come to bring peace to the world but a sword…Matt. 10:34. Jesus was a revolutionary of his day. Jesus also said that in the end times, people would become lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, boy was he right on about that!

    Jesus said that we are to be salt and light to the world. Salt is a preservative and light is to dispel darkness. Jesus has called believers to be an influence in their society. We see that happening today, Christians are having an influence in politics, in Hollywood in the movie industry, in banking and finance, in the sports realm etc. There are those who are calling Christian professional athletes to boycott playing in cities that allow transgenders to use women’s bathrooms.

    To you I may be a traitor, but to God I am called an obedient son!!

    Jesus also said that in last days, that men will revile you on my account and for my name, but rejoice!!

  20. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    I got to thinking, you said that I discriminate, do you that God also discriminates on the who gets into heaven? God has said that only those who accepted His Son’s free gift of salvation and lived their lives will have eternal life, while those who rejected His Son’s free gift of salvation will be judged and thrown into hell for all eternity to suffer for the penalties of their sins here on earth.

    I also believe that God discriminates regarding His blessings as well. Those who have accepted Christ are called His children, while those who have not accepted Christ are called the enemies of God. Those who are His children have His blessings, His joy, an abundant life, peace, etc.

    It has been said that for the Christian, this life on earth is the closest they will get to hell and for the unbeliever this life on earth is the closest they will get to heaven!

    Just some things to think about Connie.

    God loves you Connie and wants you to become His child.

  21. Rev Bob

    Oh Connie,

    I forgot one more thing, when Christ returns He will destroy all the ungodly, that means, Mikey, gone, Chris Rodda, gone, G, gone, Connie, gone, MRFF , gone!!

    Just another thing to think about.

  22. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    I know that all this may sound like a bummer, but I am telling you the Truth of the Gospel that will save you from an eternity in hell as the penalty of your sins, but the truth is not what Pastor Joan or the other alleged “Christians” of MRFF will ever tell you, they would rather you and the others let you slip right into pit of hell without presenting the good news of the Gospel that Christ came, died for you, rose again and sits now on the right hand of the Father in heaven and will come again to make all things right! You said in a previous posting that you pity me, actually, I pity you that you will stubbornly reject the greatest gift God has ever offered to man in his Son Jesus. He will try to woo you to Himself, but the more you reject Him and Jesus, then they will have no choice but to no longer this free gift and let you suffer the consequences for rejecting Him. Just remember, eternity is a long time to suffer!! And no there is no Vahalla, no pergutory where you get a second chance. Once you die, that’s it, then comes the judgement.

  23. Connie

    I’m happy you found a path that works for you RB. Your path doesn’t fit me just as mine does not fit you. That’s the beauty of living in the USA.

    The Constitution ensures we each have the same rights:
    – This means you have the right to believe your lord and saviour will come down and beat up everyone you don’t like.
    – This means I have the right to be free of your belief and believe whatever I need to get me through the night as long as I don’t use my beliefs to infringe upon anyone else.

    For a supposed scholar as yourself, I find your willful ignorance frustrating, leaving me exactly where I started – labeling you as a troll and a betrayor of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

  24. Tom O

    From Holy Rebel’s 4:45PM 4/10 post:
    “Jesus did say that His kingdom was not of this world, but then the apostle John who wrote the book of Revelation under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit says that when Christ returns, He will …rule with a rod of iron…over all the nations.” If EVERYTHING in the Bible is the infallible word of God, why does the Bible say two contradictory things about something so fundamental to the nature of Christianity?
    More significant to this discussion, how did you determine that the second of those contradictory statements is the one to be believed and to use as a basis for your actions? Could it possibly be that phrases like “rule with a rod of iron” appeal so much more to your authoritarian need to dominate and control other people’s lives?
    From same post
    “What are the laws of God referring to the separation of church and state. In the book of Acts, the disciples were ordered to stop preaching in the name of Jesus by the Jewish authorities to which they responded, “we must obey God rather than man.”
    Apparently you’re saying that the state shouldn’t be able to forbid specific religions, which we all agree on. Got any examples of “laws of God referring to the separation of church and state” that command the faithful to pressure the state to support one religion over all others?
    From Rev Bob 6:06AM 4/12
    “The only thing I disagree with in the Constitution is the separation of church and state.” What specific forms of unification of church and state do you support?
    Some people are Christians because they want to become as loving as God: others because they want to become as powerful as God. It’s obvious which group you’re in.
    P.S. Have you forgotten about the comments on the previous email titled “Why” dated April 6? We’re still waiting for you to give us an example of an action by the ACLU or FFRF that tried to suppress freedom of religion.

  25. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    It will not be me who beats up anyone that I do not like, this is what Christ will do to those who do not like him and have rejected him. Now, the scriptures do say that when Christ returns, all those Christians who have died in the last 2000 years would be resurrected and we will rule with Christ over the nations.

    I also find it interesting that in Psalm 2:8 says – “Only ask, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance, the whole earth as your possession.” This refers to Christ. Verses 9-12 then says “You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron
    and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
    10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
    be warned, O rulers of the earth.
    11 Serve the Lord with fear,
    and rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son,
    lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
    for his wrath is quickly kindled.
    Blessed are all who take refuge in him.”

    When Christ first came, he came as the Lamb of God, meek and lonely, when He returns the second time He will come as the Lion of Judah, to set all this right again.

  26. Angela M Schweig

    Rev Bob,
    I’m not going to argue but just to say this: You have no fucking idea what the “8 Hills of Dominionism” are. Look them up on the Internet. You may not be one, but you can’t give a cogent argument from ignorance.

  27. Rev Bob

    Dear Angela,

    Wow, I am amazed at your mastery of English swear words. Did you learn that from your parents or were you just a spoiled rotten kid who never got her butt whipped when a child? Your swearing makes you sound like white trailer trash to me. No decent woman I have known would swear like you do.

    Secondly, why don’t you do some study before opening your mouth. You have just proven Mark Twain when he said “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.” Angela, there are only 7 mountains and not 8 and it is not called the “hills of Dominionism” but the 7 Mountains of Culture which Jesus calls every one of His disciples to have an influence in.

    So ends our lesson for today.

    Oh may I also recommend, that you open mouth, stick in soap, swish it around and then spit out, and you may have to repeat that several times to thoroughly clean your mouth out of your foul speech.

  28. Tom O

    “a spoiled rotten kid who never got her butt whipped when a child.” Thanks for giving us another example of how much you’re into dominance and control through violence.
    I see you have no response to my last comment.

  29. Rev Bob

    Tom,

    When I am talking about “beating your butt” that is in referencing to never being spanked as a child for disobedience or rebellion. It is not violence to discipline your child for the previous two things mentioned. I was spanked by my parents up to a certain age as well as my sister and brother, my sister and her husband spanked my nieces and nephew and they have and do spank their young children and none of us have become violent people, rather we have become respectful of our parents which scriptures say we should be – “children obey your parents in the Lord…”

    I have some seen some really spoiled rotten children in public and how they talk to their parents as young children and they let them child scream in public. If those parents would only give that child a couple swats against their rear end, then they would better mind and respect their parents.

    Yes, I even swatted by daughter on the butt when she was a young child and today she is an A and B student, varsity volleyball and varsity cheerleader, on student council and well respected and praised by all her teachers and respectful towards them! Maybe you have heard this verse from Proverbs, “spare the rod and you spoil the child.”

    Scripture even says that God disciplines the believer when they disobey Him, I have received a few spiritual swats against my backside by God when I have sinned against Him and disobeyed Him.

    A lot of well disciplined and respectful adults today were physically disciplined by their parents, and some I know even had to go pick out the switch their parents would you against their backside.

  30. Rev Bob

    Tom,

    The scriptures say that God disciplines us for our good and because He loves us, the same with any parent, they will discipline their child for their good and because they love them.

    Any parent who will not discipline their child when they do wrong or disobey do not love their child.

  31. Connie

    Way to to Angela! You got RevHolYes to accurately describe the Dominionist ideals. Which he’s said before he wasn’t aware so his wording here is revealing –

    ****
    Angela, there are only 7 mountains and not 8 and it is not called the “hills of Dominionism” but the 7 Mountains of Culture which Jesus calls every one of His disciples to have an influence in.
    *********

    Tom O – RevHolYes doesn’t answer hard questions. At least he never did with me. Perhaps you being male and all he will make an exception for you.

    Note- what is with the name RevHolYes? I’m a Firefly fan. If you are too then you know who I’m talking about. 🙂 Shiny

  32. Tom O

    Apparently, Rev Bob is unaware of any means of disciplining a child other than whipping butts. Or maybe that’s the type of discipline that appeals most to his authoritarian bullying personality.
    Also, I see that he still doesn’t have any answers to the questions in my 8:05PM 4/12 post.
    Connie: “RevHolYes doesn’t answer hard questions” from anyone, regardless of gender. When people spend most of their lives in a culture that demands blind acceptance of whatever authority figures say, development of their critical thinking skills is suppressed, and they tend too think that merely asserting something makes it true.

  33. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    Jesus called His disciples and followers to be salt and light to the world, how else are we to follow His commands but to have a godly influence in every aspect of our culture today. As I have said before, there are Christians who are bringing the teachings of Christ in the political, educational, media & arts etc realms of our society. I bet you did not even know that there is an evangelical believer who is a has been the director or executive producer of some major motion pictures that have come out of Hollywood and you can see his Christian influence in the pictures he has either produced or directed.

    As I have said before, you want a theocracy, just wait until Christ returns, pornography will be wiped out, abortion and Planned Parenthood will be no more, MRFF and the FFRF will be wiped out made illegal by Christ.

    Christ will then establish His rule and reign over all the nations and put them under his feet. If you are still alive when He returns, you will have to bow your knees to Him, so you may want to start practicing doing that along with everyone else affiliated with MRFF.

    But remember, you are only one breath away from where you will spend eternity! Choose wisely Connie!

  34. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    This makes for some good reading
    When A Jew Rules the World: What the Bible Really Says about Israel in the Plan of God
    http://www.amazon.com/When-Jew-Rules-World-Really/dp/1938067711/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460587085&sr=1-1&keywords=when+a+jew+rules+the+world

    It gives some insight into what the world looks like after Christ returns and sets up His 1,000 year reign here on earth.

  35. Rev Bob

    Did I not say earlier that Christians are having an influence in Hollywood today, well so are Christian movies.

    Hollywood now embracing
    Christian films, says ‘God’s Not Dead’
    star Kevin Sorbo
    http://www.christianfilmdatabase.com/news/hollywood-now-embracing-christian-films-says-gods-not-dead-star-kevin-sorbo/

  36. Tom O

    Rev Bob’s 10:23AM comment suggests that he doesn’t know any way to discipline children that doesn’t involve physical torture. Why does that not surprise me?
    In the time since I asked Rev Bob/Holy Rebel 4 questions at 8:05PM 4/12, he’s posted 5 comments here, but has ignored those questions. Apparently he has no explanation for the apparent contradictions between two contradictory bible passages.
    He can’t tell us why he chose to believe and to use as a basis for his actions the prediction of the far future from John the apostle instead of an alleged quote of Jesus stating a then-current fact.
    He tells us “The only thing I disagree with in the Constitution is the separation of church and state,” but won’t tell us what specific forms of unification of church and state he supports. That’s probably why he can’t give any examples of “laws of God referring to the separation of church and state” that command the faithful to pressure the state to support one religion over all others.

  37. Rev Bob

    Tom O,

    I gather you are not a parent. I would hate to see how you would handle a 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of a restaurant and how you would handle it. Would you just let them continue to scream? If my child did that I would either take them outside or into the bathroom and give them a couple good swats on the butt to get their attention. Spanking a child is not torture, where did you get that from, Dr. Spock? Why do you think God put so much padding on the rear end. Now I would say that you never swat a child out of anger. Swatting an unruly child on the butt is not limited to just Christians, I know of many non-Christian parents who swat their children. Now it has been said that you should never use your hand so that they do not associate pain with your hand but to use a different object. My sister use to use a wooden spoon on the rear end or back of the legs of my now adult nieces and they are very well adjusted and have kids themselves. I am sure you have heard of the bible verse “spare the rod and spoil the child” would you be surprised that is found in the Old Testament so the early Jews had no problem applying that verse to their children thousands of years ago and I am sure today as well,

    I posed that question about spanking to my Facebook friends and they were all in favor of using spanking to discipline their young children up to a certain age then you need to use another method like removing privileges etc. The best comment posted was this – Torture and dominance”?? Clearly this guy spent way too much time in college and not enough time in the real world…you can’t reason with babies and toddlers, so a good swat can be necessary at times…as they get older and understand the consequences for poor choices and/or disobedience, then alternate forms of discipline can be just as effective… that came from my nephew in law, the father of my great nieces!

    Yes I will answer your other questions, I am just formulating my thoughts at this time.

    When I was a teacher at a school in the early 80’s, the teachers could swat a student with a one inch wooden paddle if the reaction of the student called for it.

  38. Tom O

    Spin it all you want: that won’t erase your previous comment about whipping children and washing their mouth with soap for saying a word you don’t like.
    I’m not a parent, but have some experience playing that role. I wasn’t very good at it, but here’s an example (you could learn from, but probably won’t) of one time I did a good job playing the grandparent role
    The woman I once lived with’s daughter, son-in-law, grandson, and I were riding in the son-in-law’s car. The grandson was being bratty, his parents were getting irritated, and I could see trouble coming, and tried to think of a way to head it off.
    In the most empathetic-to-him tone of voice I could project, I said “Christopher, I think you’re forgetting the most important rule of the parent-child game.”
    His response was to yell “WHAT’S THAT?”
    My answer: “The parents always win.”
    Result: hysterical laughter from parents, grandson silently sulking.

  39. Rev Bob

    I bet you every WWII vet while growing up got a switch across their back side or had their mouth washed out with soap for saying a curse word, and look how they turned out, they are called the “Greatest Generation.” I pray that you will never have children.

    That may have worked with your son-in-law, but that will not work everytime. I just laugh when I see some parents trying to reason with a child who is screaming or being disobedient or they just give in and buy them something, that does not teach a child respect, but those parents who I have seen take their kid outside or to the bathroom and swat them, they come back silent and obedient.

    Here is another response to my FB posting – Anyone notice the correlation between the reduction of spanking, removal of God from our school, with the worldwide lack of respect for others? That is from a former famous major league pitcher who I am friends with.

  40. Connie

    It is possible to raise a respectful child without resorting to violence. I’m not a parent to any human children, although I’ve had many fur babies (I work with dogs that have been abused). Using tired training methods such as a rolled up newspaper (violence) isn’t an option when the ‘child’ has teeth, claws, and could kill me if I fuck up.

    Here’s my take on the screaming child: I would take them to the bathroom to gather themselves. I practice the art of being a MoominMama** so I’d have crackers and a small toy or book for the child. I’d do my best to figure out why they were crying. A two year old human is just learning about personal boundaries so perhaps they really wanted to walk to the table like a real people (they really aren’t that complicated). After we washed away the tears we’d walk together to the table. If their crying would not stop, we’d leave. Simple as that. All spanking teaches a child is that violence is an acceptable solution to an issue.

    It doesn’t surprise me that RevHolYesh’s friends confirm his bias towards violence towards children. In my opinion the world would be a better place without dishonest Domionist whining about being persecuted and their continual need to smite things.

    Loosing ones monopoly on priveledge isn’t persecution. It’s called sharing.

    **from the Finn Family Moomintroll book series. The MoominMama carried everything in her purse, including pancakes. I’m not that good (yet).

  41. Rev Bob

    Connie, please tell me how that works for you that you can raise a respectful child without violence! Once again, please get it through your head, that physical discipline is not violence or torture, it is called punishment for being disobedient. Connie, dogs and children are entirely different and yes I have use either a rolled newspaper or my hand to discipline my dogs and they never turned on me, became scared of me, but were very loving and obedient dogs as they knew what actions were okay and not okay.

    I even asked my teenage daughter tonight if she felt that when her mother and I spanked her when younger if it damaged her in any way. She said a resounding NO, it taught me what was right and what was wrong behavior. I used my hand to spank her and her mom used a wooden spoon. She then said that I will use a wooden spoon on my children when they are disobedient.

    There are many verses in the Old and New Testaments that talk about discipling your children, and the Hebrew and Greek words used refer to correction, training, chastisement, to educate, punish with or without corporal punishment. There is even a NT verse for believers that says that we are not to despise the discipline of the Lord or be weary when reproved by Him, for the Lord disciplines the one He loves and chastises every son whom he receives. Sometimes the Lord has to take a believer to the woodshed so as to learn obedience from Him and to know what is sin and what is not sin.

    If God says that physical discipline is okay on certain occasions then who is to argue with God? Why because he is often referred to as a heavenly father.

    Not all the time did we use physical discipline with our daughter, the form of punishment was equal to what the disobedience was. Sometimes we just sent her to her room, but if she was outright rebellious towards us then we would use physical punishment. As she got older then the discipline was changed to fit more with her age. Today, if my daughter is disobedient, I can just take away her cell phone for a week, which is totally awful for a teenage girl to have happen to her. When she starts driving, I just need to take away the car keys and she can either walk to school or get a ride from a friend.

  42. Rev Bob

    It always amazes me who those who have never been parents try to tell those who are how to parent their children. It is like a Catholic priest giving marriage advice to a couple when he has never been married.

  43. Connie

    RevHolYesh – you are a smug sanctimonious piece of work, aren’t you?

    I didn’t set up the parameters of the scene, you did with your talk of smiting children with weapons (a spoon is a weapon. If you doubt me, you’ve never lived with a Marine). The scene I described I’ve done – just not with my children as I don’t have any of the two legged variety. I do have a boat load of nieces and nephews and made my living babysitting for a while so I am confident my methods work. Why else would I follow the MoominMama way?

    I deplore the evangelical approved parenting ‘experts’ Michael and Debi Pearl and Bill Gothard and believe their methods are barely disguised child abuse. I’ve never said how you, as an evangelical, should bring up your children, just disagreed with your methods. According to your own words RevHolYesh you said raising a child takes violence (spanking) to show them who is boss.

    I described a way to show the child socially acceptable responses to being overwhelmed such as excusing themselves to the rest room. I communicated with the child to determine their needs – in this case wanting to walk to the table. This teaches the child that they can communicate with something other than tears or a tantrum. It also validates the child’s need to be a person, a very important part of development. Your method comes across as “me big person is always right and if you disobey I will hit you”. Yeah, I’ve never had success with the evangelical methods.

    It should not surprise me that you took my disagreement with your methods as a personal attack on you. Because it’s always about you RevHolYesh, isn’t it?

  44. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    You are the piece of work, not me, a spoon is not a weapon, geez where did you get that from? It is an inanimate object which is better than you hand. I guess you will now say that the hand is a weapon too huh? As I have said before, spanking is not an evangelical Christian thing, do you know how many non Christians and I would even say atheists have spanked their kids when young. I bet if you were to ask all children of WWII vets, Vietnam Vets, Gulf War vets who were spanked if it hurt them any, they would say NO, it made me better, it taught me respect for authority. I would venture to say all the hoodlums in our schools today who talk back and curse at teachers never had their butt spanked by their liberal parents.

    Who are Michael and Debbie Pearl? I have never heard of them in my life.

    A parent needs to show their child is boss, the child is not to run the household, and I have heard of too many who do. God has entrusted us with the children we have, and we are to “bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.” I am not my daughters friend, I am her father, now that may all change when she is in college, but even if she were to reside in my house even after she turns 18, she will still have to abide by my rules.

    I am thankful that God never entrusted you or Tom with children, I would hate to see what hoodlums they would be today. 🙂

  45. Rev Bob

    Connie,

    Almost forgot, if any “man” follows my daughter into the women’s room, he will come out missing his junk!! He will then have to get surgery to become a woman! I think they call it the Lorena Bobbitt surgery she made famous on her husband after he raped her!

    I bet you may soon see men guarding the entrance to ladies rooms so that no “man” can use it while real biological women are in there.

    If transgenders want their own bathroom, we will set up porta potties outside for them.

  46. Tom O

    Interesting that you have all this time to rant about bathrooms and spanking, but STILL haven’t answered the questions I asked above at 8:05PM 4/12. I’m especially curious how you decided which of two contradictory bible quotes to believe, as I reminded you at 7:10PM 4/13.

  47. Rev Bob

    Tom O,

    The bible does not contradict itself, if it did that would mean that God contradicts Himself, since the scriptures are God-breathed, and God can never contradict Himself since He is God.

    Okay, when Christ said to Pilate that my kingdom is not of this world, He meant that not for that time or for that moment. If you read after that Jesus says that if my kingdom of this world I would summon my servants that they would fight for me. This is one of the reasons the Jews today will not accept Christ as their Messiah, because they felt that the Messiah would wipe out the Roman Empire. A couple verses later Jesus then tells Pilate, “my kingdom is not from this world.” His kingdom is spiritual and from heaven, which is why Jesus taught His disciples to pray, thy kingdom come and thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”

    Now, we also have the Messianic verses in the Old Testament which speak of Christ’s future reign here on earth:

    Psalm 2:7-9 (ESV)

    7 I will tell of the decree:
    The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
    today I have begotten you.
    8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
    and the ends of the earth your possession.
    9 You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron
    and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

    Isaiah 11:1-7

    Isaiah 9:6-7 (ESV)

    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given;
    and the government shall be upon[a] his shoulder,
    and his name shall be called[b]
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
    there will be no end,
    on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
    to establish it and to uphold it
    with justice and with righteousness
    from this time forth and forevermore.
    The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.

    Scripture speaks that when Christ returns He will sit on the throne of David which is in Jerusalem and from there He will rule over all the earth and nations for a literal 1,000 years.

    Zechariah 14

    14 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.

    When scripture says that all the nations will gather for battle against Jerusalem, that probably also includes the United States, but that is when Christ will then destroy all the nations that have gathered for battle against Israel. See, you never mess with Israel or the God of Israel, you will lose every time.

  48. G

    “When I am talking about “beating your butt” that is in referencing to never being spanked as a child for disobedience or rebellion. It is not violence to discipline your child for the previous two things mentioned. I was spanked by my parents up to a certain age as well as my sister and brother, my sister and her husband spanked my nieces and nephew and they have and do spank their young children and none of us have become violent people, rather we have become respectful of our parents which scriptures say we should be – “children obey your parents in the Lord…”

    I have some seen some really spoiled rotten children in public and how they talk to their parents as young children and they let them child scream in public. If those parents would only give that child a couple swats against their rear end, then they would better mind and respect their parents.

    Yes, I even swatted by daughter on the butt when she was a young child and today she is an A and B student, varsity volleyball and varsity cheerleader, on student council and well respected and praised by all her teachers and respectful towards them! Maybe you have heard this verse from Proverbs, “spare the rod and you spoil the child.”

    Scripture even says that God disciplines the believer when they disobey Him, I have received a few spiritual swats against my backside by God when I have sinned against Him and disobeyed Him.

    A lot of well disciplined and respectful adults today were physically disciplined by their parents, and some I know even had to go pick out the switch their parents would you against their backside.”

    Yeah Rev Bob, and who whipped the adults when they use foul language especially business people, military people and police officers.

    “I bet you every WWII vet while growing up got a switch across their back side or had their mouth washed out with soap for saying a curse word, and look how they turned out, they are called the “Greatest Generation.”

    Yeah Rev Bob and how many drill sergeant, officers, and NCOs got a switch across their back side or had their mouth washed out by their men for saying a curse word? The answer is none of them. A long time ago, when the Tailhook Scandal came out, many people reported that they knew kids that never drank, smoke, or cursed; however, when they saw the kids coming back to their town after graduating from basic training, many of them were smoking, cursing, and cursing. “Fine” role models the NCOs and officers were for our men.

    God has contradict himself when he says thou shall not murder; however, he committed murder himself.

  49. G

    Rev Bob, who whips business leaders when they have to respect for government authority when they lie, cheat, steal people plus polluted God’s planet all in the name of the false gods of Capitalism, Free Marker, and Free Enterprise?

  50. G

    “It always amazes me who those who have never been parents try to tell those who are how to parent their children. It is like a Catholic priest giving marriage advice to a couple when he has never been married.”

    It is amazes me that people in management who have never been blue-collar workers like steel workers, plumbers, factory workers, etc., are trying to tell the workers how to do their jobs. It is like a business person who has a degree in business, accounting, business communications, etc, thinking that they can run a steel factory, chemical plant, etc. when they have never done those blue-collars and don’t have the math and science skills to understand how their products work.

    Blame the Catholic Church for by forbidding their priests from getting married.

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