Bible’s and other religions

Your hate and selfishness to a Bible being in the VA is atrocious.  Most of those are brought in by volunteers or groups.  Rather than take everything away from one group because somehow you are “offended” by the sight of a book, you are welcome to bring books of your faith in.  No one is stopping you.  But no, your would rather think only of your ignorant things you are offended by.  How a book offends one is a mystery.  No one is shoving it in your face or forcing you to read it.  The availability of them in no way harms you or anyone in your group.  However it brings healing and comfort to many more veterans than what makes up your disgusting foundation.  But you hate that and want everyone to be miserable.  So some one is a jew – bring crap that Jews like.  Same for any other religion.  Atheist, bring books on atheism.  Bring whatever you think is needed for your orientation.  Stopping others from having their faith’s words is asinine.
 
Your foundation is just there to cause hate and discontent.  A selfish an hate filled organization that is useless.
 
Sincerely, and I mean every word,

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Joan Slish

,Dear (name withheld),

We at the MRFF thank you for your service. 
 
Every person joining the military must take an oath:
 
The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees): 
“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God (now optional).” 
We are defenders of the Constitution, too, especially the Separation of Church and State.
We are neither an atheist organization nor are we anti-Christian. Mikey is Jewish (and prays to the same Father we do 3 times a day) and 80% of the Board, Advisory Board, volunteers and supporters (300 in total) of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) are Christians. In fact, 96% of our 50,000+ soldier clients are mainline Christians and we fight for them more than any other belief or non-belief.
 
We are not making war against Christianity. Our government is secular (including the military) and has laws and rules regarding religious neutrality in any of its entities.
 
We also have many honorable and distinguished military personnel whom we rely on for their expertise on religion in the military on our Board and Advisory Board, who continue to uphold their oath.
 
Check out our Mission Statement
 
“…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” (Article I, III)
 
This means that from the President to Congress to the military – no one’s job is based on their religion.
 
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (Establishment Clause), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (Free Exercise Clause).”(First Amendment)
 
The Establishment Clause means that you cannot favor one religion over another even though it is in the majority. This clause respects the RIGHTS of all religions. Our military is SECULAR and there are people of other faiths that don the uniform that love this country. 
 
The Free Exercise Clause (which is subservient to the Establishment Clause) means that our soldiers are free to exercise any religion they want or no religion at all but cannot elevate one God above others.
“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.” Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320. 
This is his second known use of the term “wall of separation,” here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter.
 
This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause.
 
“Jefferson’s concept of “separation of church and state” first became a part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878). In that case, the court examined the history of religious liberty in the US, determining that while the constitution guarantees religious freedom, “The word ‘religion’ is not defined in the Constitution. We must go elsewhere, therefore, to ascertain its meaning and nowhere more appropriately, we think, than to the history of the times in the midst of which the provision was adopted.” The court found that the leaders in advocating and formulating the constitutional guarantee of religious liberty were James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. Quoting the “separation” paragraph from Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists, the court concluded that, “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.
 
In 1878 “separation of church and state” became part of the Establishment Clause by law.
 
. The Supreme Court heard the Lemon v. Kurtzman case in 1971 and ruled in favor of the Establishment Clause.
 
Subsequent to this decision, the Supreme Court has applied a three-pronged test to determine whether government action comports with the Establishment Clause, known as the Lemon Test:
 
Government action violates the Establishment Clause unless it: 
1. has a significant secular (i.e., non-religious) purpose, 
2. does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion 
3. does not foster excessive entanglement between government and religion
 
Parker v. Levy: 
 “This Court has long recognized that the military is, by necessity, a specialized society separate from civilian society… While the members of the military are not excluded from the protection granted by the First Amendment, the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections. … The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it… Speech [in any form] that is protected in the civil population may nonetheless undermine the effectiveness of response to command.  If it does, it is constitutionally unprotected.” (Emphasis added) Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 1974
 
AFI (Air Force Instruction) 1-1, Section 2.12:
 2.12. Balance of Free Exercise of Religion and Establishment Clause. Leaders at all levels must balance constitutional protections for their own free exercise of religion, including individual expressions of religious beliefs, and the constitutional prohibition against governmental establishment of religion. They must ensure their words and actions cannot reasonably be construed to be officially endorsing or disapproving of, or extending preferential treatment for any faith, belief, or absence of belief. 
 
The VA and other military branches skirt these laws by allowing outside organizations to bring them in because they know that if they did it they would be in violation of the Constitution (Establishment Clause), Reynolds v. U.S., Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Lemon Test, Parker v. Levy and AFI 1-1, Section 2.12.
 
It doesn’t matter that a person or outside group brings them in to display or places them in a drawer; it is still a violation of the above rules because it is on government property.
 
We do agree that an individual service person can bring their faith-based book to read for personal use as long as it is not left behind.
We are not “A selfish an hate filled organization that is useless” as attested by our 50,000+ and growing clients.
The selfish and hate filled organizations are those that foment hate and anger by deliberately leaving out the above laws (which they are fully aware of because we’ve told them) to generate hate mail and anti-Semitism such as yours.
Joan Slish
MRFF Advisory Board Membe

Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
Dear (name withheld),
…..”bring CRAP that Jews like.”…..seriously, (name withheld)??…..speaks volumes…..Mikey Weinstein

Yep, that was not the best way to write that!  I was frustrated and did not think before I wrote.  I hope though you can see the overall point of the message.
(name withheld)

 Dear Joan,
You have eloquent writing skills and many facts to support your argument. However, you are taking this to an extreme that directly impacts Christians in the majority. This is not about other religions except perhaps one percent. You focus with purity on the law and feel righteous about taking it to extremes in order to prove to yourselves that you have authority. The Bible’s do not hurt anyone. As I said before all religions have the ability to do the same with their materials. Christians do not block other’s beliefs nor do they object to them providing members of other faiths their materials. I personally find comfort in the ability to have Christian material available to me. Sometimes one does not lesiorly pack for a hospital stay. Also their are many veterans who are homeless and do not have family to help them. Availability of their faiths materials may be helpful to them.  The Chaplain providing material will strongly go against your interpretation of the law. Also, the chaplain is generally one person who has limited resources. It is difficult for him or her to timely provide for all. In no way do the Bible’s laying with other books or magazines interfere with church and state. Except in the mind of folks that feel they must be offended as that is American now and feel they need to take away other people’s rights a land needs.

If you folks operate so strictly by the law I assume none of you have ever sped, left early from work without permission, used work time for a personal issue etc. 

Sometimes their is a direct violation of religion and state. This is not one that influences state decisions or actions. It only helps to provide comfort for veterans who need or want it.

Congratulations on your quest to ensure veterans lose more opportunities to find healing.

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Joan Slish

As Sandra Day O’Connor said in McCreary County v. American Civil Liberties Union, 545 U.S. 844 (2005) “It is true that many Americans find the Commandments in accord with their personal beliefs. But we do not count heads before enforcing the First Amendment.”

 

In other words, the majority doesn’t rule and the other religions make up more than the 1 percent you state.

 

We do not feel righteous or superior concerning religious freedom for all of our service members. We are enforcing the laws that must be followed by our military.

 

You never mentioned Chaplains in your original email and we agree that IF a person wants a bible from the Chaplain he is free to give it.

 

“In no way do the Bible’s laying with other books or magazines interfere with church and state.”

 

That is your opinion but the laws I gave you say otherwise.

Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”

You have your opinion and we have the facts to back us up. The laws are not extreme but must be obeyed.

If you folks operate so strictly by the law I assume none of you have ever sped, left early from work without permission, used work time for a personal issue etc.”

This has nothing to do with religious neutrality in the military.

Congratulations on your quest to ensure veterans lose more opportunities to find healing.”

We are not stopping anyone from finding healing or asking a Chaplain to come pray for them and bringing them a bible to read.

As a retired Pastor I have come to the spiritual aid of many ill people in their time of need.

The lack of a bible in the waiting room of the VA does not diminish the inner faith a Christian has. If it does then he needs to spend more time reading it at home and praying for guidance.

Joan Slish

 Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere

Brigadier General, Judge Advocate General’s Corps, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American veteran (Vietnam)
 Dear (name withheld),
The MRFF represents approximately 50,000 loyal & patriotic American military, veteran & civilian clients who have requested that their constitutional freedom from government promoted religion be respected & protected. We proudly serve them to protect this historic American liberty of all Americans.
 
Attached please find a rational explanation in plain language of the factual, historical & lawful relationship between the Constitution, our veterans & any religion. We hope you find it informative.
 
Ironically, the most hate-filled responses to our representation of fellow Americans (96% of whom are Christians) comes from radicalized fundamentalist Christians who indicate no respect for our US Constitution & resort to hateful name-calling because they cannot address this subject matter in any mature or meaningful manner.
 
Most Sincerely,
 
John Compere
Brigadier General, Judge Advocate General’s Corps, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American veteran (Vietnam)

 Dear Joan,
Well I must admit your argument and facts do carry the truth when I look at it through a different lens. I just find it, personally difficult to accept   Thank you for dealing with my irrational feelings and responding with controlled and understanding tone. Thanks for your time.  Don’t get me wrong I am not converted, but I do see your side’s argument. Plus you do have the law on your side ?.

Have a great day and thanks again.

Sincerely,

(name withheld)


 Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
 Dear (name withheld),

As you’ve noted, not thinking before you write can lead to some unfortunate things being said. Because I saw what you apparently thought was an explanation, it was certainly not an apology. That leaves it open for the reader to determine for her or himself if the writer is a bigot, a fool, someone who is just stupid or, perhaps, a hyper-defensive Christian who doesn’t understand the situation and lashes out in ignorance.

Let me explain in the hope it will calm the waters. No one here is a hater. No one here is offended by the sight of a book.

Your angry outburst is unwelcome and the words with which you’ve chosen to attack people you don’t know, yet are apparently happy to make judgments about, are offensive. Your antisemitic slip probably says more about you than makes you comfortable, but the rest of your tirade should do the same.

The MRFF has no problem with people believing in or taking “healing and comfort” from the Bible or any other artifact of a belief system, whether religious or philosophical. The MRFF supports the U.S. Constitution’s stated intention to protect the right of every individual to believe as she or he chooses. In support of that, it supports the Constitutionally mandated separation of church and state.

The separation of church and state requires, as the law makes clear, that our government cannot and should not promote, or appear to promote, one religious view over another. That being the case, no religious tracts or artifacts can or should be displayed or ‘made available’ to people coming to the VA or any other government-affiliated facility. People who choose to bring Bibles or Korans or Books of Mormon for their own edification are certainly free to do so, but when “volunteers” choose to spread the word of their own belief system by ‘providing’ material for others who happen to pick it up, that is a form of proselytizing and the VA, in this case, cannot be party to it.

I hope that helps you to better understand the reality of the mission of the MRFF. Your religion is not under attack by us and you and others who continue to believe it is might do well to ask yourselves what it is about your own faith, or lack thereof, that makes you so defensive.

Best,

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


I understand but do not agree – religion, especially Christian religion is under attack all over the world. I find it frustrating that law or not people like yourselves feel you must attack any institution that violates you beliefs. Do we really need so many groups fighting to remove a book?  I’m out!

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
Dear (name withheld),
You are indeed out. Out of touch and lacking any apparent willingness to understand

reality.

While there are certainly religious conflicts in various parts of the world, the notion that

Christianity is under attack in the U.S. is a nonsensical idea promoted by people who

apparently believe they can strengthen their own sect’s position by promoting a generalized
fear of Christian persecution. Falling for it only plays into their hands.

While you say you “understand,” you follow that claim with an asinine charge that “people

like (us)” attack “any institution” that violates our beliefs. You don’t have any idea what our

beliefs are. Nor, apparently, do you understand the law.

As it happens, over 95% of the staff, board, supporters and clients of the MRFF are Christians. The difference between them and you, apparently, is that they are Christians firm enough in their belief to not need to cringe in fear when someone points out that the law does not allow government entities to proselytize. They recognize that it is not the province of government to promote or show preference for one faith over others in a country that claims to favor freedom of religious belief. They understand that such a freedom allows for people of varying belief systems to live in harmony with each other without having to fear persecution for believing differently than does the majority. And they prize the fact that the country is strong enough and wise enough to tolerate difference of belief, even to the point that it can respect one who chooses non-belief.

This Christian martyr-complex demonstrated by people like you is boring.

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


 

 

 

 

 

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61 Comments

  1. Connie

    The letter writer said many things but one item hit me in the heart “The Bible’s do not hurt anyone”.

    Perhaps the book as a book won’t hurt too much if thrown as a weapon but the words inside….

    • The words in the Christian bible have kept women and minorities as second class humans for millennia.
    • The words in the Christian bible have taken away the language and culture of countless indigenous peoples on multiple continents.
    • The words of the Christian bible have been used to endorse slavery, discrimination, genocide, and let’s not forget the Inquisition – why purchase property when you can just take it from a heretic?
    • “The Bible’s do not hurt anyone” said no witch, ever.

    My late husband would certainly disagree with the letter writer as his superiors used the bible to justify their treatment of him – a seventh generation follower of the Asatru.

    Perhaps the letter writer could use a lesson in world history told from the perspective of those made to suffer because of oppressors filled with their Christian Bible. The clues are all around if ones eyes and heart are open and one knows how to read.

  2. American Patriot

    I wonder if I complained about a copy of “Fifty Shades of Gray” being on a table in a VA waiting room if they would remove it based upon my complaint, because it offends me?

    I gather not, but I could also take from the waiting room and throw it in a garbage can outside.

  3. Connie

    ????????!

    How in the world is Fifty Shades, a Fanfic made good, equatable to a religious book?

    AP the pigs logic (along with their morality) is startling in its absence.

    ****did anyone else’s mind jump to AP the pig equating their most holy book with fiction???? LOL. I’m certain you didn’t mean to say what you just said pig. Thank you – ROFL

  4. Tom O

    “I wonder if I complained about a copy of “Fifty Shades of Gray” being on a table in a VA waiting room if they would remove it based upon my complaint, because it offends me?”

    AGAIN, AP/RevBob repeats the theocrats’ lie that non-theocrats oppose government support for religion because we’re “offended” by religious symbols. That’s one of their primary tactics to distract attention from their attempts to use religion as a tool to gain political POWER, so they can use government to push THEIR religious views on the rest of us.

  5. American Patriot

    Just one more day! Obama will be gone hallelujah!! A whole new military under Trump, and Trump and Mattis will tell Mikey to go screw yourself!!

  6. American Patriot

    Oh yeah, the 9th Evangelical Christian was appointed by Trump to his cabinet today. Man I love this. Both Trump and Pence will be attending church before the inauguration tomorrow, something Obama would never think to do.

  7. G

    When is it mandatory for an incoming president to intend church, AP?

    So what if Trump and Pence goes to church tomorrow or any other day, AP? It doesn’t wash away all their lying, cheating, and stealing from their fellow human beings.

  8. Connie

    AP the pig ignores the prayer ceremony ex-President Obama attended at his second inauguration and the massive day of service completed by everyone at the first inauguration (dovetailing with the MLK holiday).

    As it is important for many Christians to pair correct thought and prayer with good works who exactly is the more pious here? Hint – it’s not Trump.

  9. American Patriot

    Connie,
    “The words in the Christian bible have kept women and minorities as second class humans for millennia.”

    Oh really, have you checked the life of Kellyanne Conway recently, she is now the most powerful woman in the White House, the architect of Trump’s winning campaign, does not look like she is second class citizen. Or how about Penny Nance, the CEO of Concerned Women for America, the most powerful conservative women’s organization in the the United States, or Shannon Bream, Fox News Washington DC journalist, or Brigitte Gabriel, CEO of Act for America. Here are 50 other Christian women, the majority of them are married, who are CEO’s, have earned doctoral degrees, ministries that are saving women from sex trafficking all over the world. Sure does not sound like the are subjugated by their husbands and are second class citizens.

    If you really want to see the subjugation of women, all you have to do is look to the Muslim countries in the Middle East. Women there have no rights, are victims of genital mutilation, are raped by their husbands, cannot drive a car or go out anywhere without being accompanied by a male relative. So, sounds like you are being a little hypocritical, but of course liberal women turn a blind eye to the women in Islamic countries and bury their heads in the sand as though nothing is happening over there.

  10. American Patriot

    Here is the link for the 50 Christian women you should know – http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/october/50-women-you-should-know.html

  11. G

    AP, it doesn’t change the fact that American men who have to have a cultural attitude that women are viewed sex objects for their own pleasures despite the fact that you have successful women in this country plus many hard core conservative men want to turn this country into a theocracy one Conservative women and men are turning a blind eye to women in Islamic countries as well and burying their heads in the sand as well. BTW, India treats its women badly and they are a predominately Hindu country. In addition, the Israelis also tried their women badly too. In the past few years, a number of high-ranking Israeli police commissioner left the force due to them sexual harassing female police officers.

  12. G

    “Checked the life of Kellyanne Conway recently, she is now the most powerful woman in the White House, the architect of Trump’s winning campaign, does not look like she is second class citizen. Or how about Penny Nance, the CEO of Concerned Women for America, the most powerful conservative women’s organization in the United States, or Shannon Bream, Fox News Washington DC journalist, or Brigitte Gabriel, CEO of Act for America. Here are 50 other Christian women, the majority of them are married, who are CEO’s, have earned doctoral degrees, ministries that are saving women from sex trafficking all over the world. Sure does not sound like the are subjugated by their husbands and are second class citizens.”

    Yeah AP, and sooner or later, many of these women will have divorces and/or have adultery affairs despite the fact that they are married. So what is they are educated? I don’t see them fighting for free health care, free college, good paying jobs, bringing back jobs to America, restoring labor unions to this country, election campaign reforms, etc. They are just following the same blind ideology just like their conservative male counterparts. Don’t think that successful, powerful women particularly conservative ones are immune to the same things that destroy men.

  13. Connie

    American Patriot the pig** offers only distraction, the “I know I’m beating the stuffing out of you but hey! Look, a squirrel” tactic used by abusers everywhere.

    I’ve thought of every point the pig believes I ignore. Here are my thoughts:

    • Millions of women are oppressed but the pig** here has fifty (50!!!) profiles of women in power. Wow. What exactly is the success rate here – .0025%?

    • Please explain how am I being hypocritical. Honestly I believe your answer rate is only one answer for every hundred of my questions so I’m not holding my breath for your reply as the dogs need me alive.

    • Female Genital Mutilation is not limited to those ‘other’ places as it happened in the USA. In some instances it’s still happening as it’s another way for the menfolk to control the wimmenz. How do know? I personally knew two ladies who had this abomination performed on them. It messed up their life and health. It is an evil practice that needs to be ended. (I’m not an advocate of circumcision either. Body modification before the age of consent is not ethical in my opinion.)

    • Does the pig know anything about the world of sex workers? Does the pig know (or care to know) many people choose sex work as a profession? Has the pig educated themselves about efforts by sex workers to eliminate ‘sex trafficking’? Does the pig understand the world is way ahead in efforts to ensure accountably in sex work? Does the pig understand the very people the pig expects to help (authorities and police) are those most guilty of abusing sex workers? I suspect the pig has placed a ‘naughty’ label on anything sexual and spews outrage and dogma whenever the thought pops into their head (every 5 seconds for men and 7 seconds for women).

    • The pig talks about rape in Muslim culture but ignores the elephant in their own living room. When the pig can talk honestly about consent and the Yes means Yes campaign then I will believe the pig has evolved. Until then see the bullet point above.

    Typical pig – believes the propaganda about “liberal women”, neglects to actually learn about liberals, women, or opinions that counter their own.

    My affirmation today is the ignorance spewed by the pig is not what people want. The #womensmarch was celebrated all over the world with attendance exceeding the most optimistic predictions. Human Rights advocates are a force to be reckoned with and we will not be silenced anymore. Viva la resistance!

    #Think global, act local.

    ** I call American Patriot ‘the pig’ because of they believe as the pigs in George Orwell’s book Animal Farm; all animals are created equal but some are more equal than others.

  14. American Patriot

    G,
    “Yeah AP, and sooner or later, many of these women will have divorces and/or have adultery affairs despite the fact that they are married.” You are such a pessimist, besides those war words straight from the pit of hell and rebuke those words in Jesus name, and declare over these women that their marriages will prosper and no attack from the enemy will overtake them. A very useful phrase I have heard many parents tell their kids which yours should have told you is “you do not have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.”

  15. American Patriot

    Connie, female genital mutilation only occurs in Islam, you will not see it in either Christianity or Judaism.

    Oh yes, the women’s rights march, marching for the right to murder a baby before it is born, what about the baby’s right to live, that is what conservative women march for. Oh then there is that slut Madonna throwing f bombs and threatening a sitting president. Thankfully we have a Secret Service now that is investigating her and I hope they arrest her and throw her pretty ass in prison with no hope of being pardoned or her sentence commuted.

    It is not human rights to murder a baby and you will be dealt with as we defund Planned Parenthood, then what will you do, I am sure we can round up some metal clothes hangers to hand out to all those who want to murder a child not born, and if they bleed to death, oh well, just the consequences of committing sin.

    Oh it is going to a great 4 to 8 years! Oh is that the sound of jets being fueled to go eradicate radical Muslims from the face of the earth. I just love the smell of jet fuel in the morning, especially when they are taking off to kill radical jihadists sending them to hell with no hope of 72 virgins.

  16. American Patriot

    Oh, the House just passed a bill to give the largest pay raise to the military in 6 years, thank you Trump.

    We can now also help Israel annex the West Bank and make it part of Israel again, since it is their land in the first place.

  17. Connie

    Pig tells me I’m lying about the females I knew – they are dead now – who suffered from Female Genital Mutilation. Isn’t that special? Such a little sausage sack, aren’t they?

    Oofta the hate is strong in the pig! The need to deal out punishment is so overwhelming they want Madonna thrown in jail for having violent thoughts. No due process or need for an actual crime for this little piggy! Just think incorrectly and off to the gulag you go.

    Seriously pig, where were you when the last president faced not just violent thoughts and words but actual threats? If I remember correctly your lack of respect was unmistakable. And you call me a hypocrite? Look in the mirror pig. There is a log in your eye.

    I’m so glad the pig and those like them are on the wrong side of history. Women will no longer be silenced. Female rights ARE Human rights. Long live the resistance.

  18. Connie

    My questions ignored;
    Pig issues a hate filled rant
    Would Jesus approve?

  19. G

    “You are such a pessimist, besides those war words straight from the pit of hell and rebuke those words in Jesus name, and declare over these women that their marriages will prosper and no attack from the enemy will overtake them. A very useful phrase I have heard many parents tell their kids which yours should have told you is “you do not have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.”

    Well AP, a lot of parents and adults don’t really believe in that phrase so your argument is null and void. Furthermore, many adults and parents think that what they tell kids do not apply to them.

    “besides those war words straight from the pit of hell and rebuke those words in Jesus’s name?” Don’t make me laugh although I am trying hard not to. Prove that these words are from the pits of hell. Do you have the power to rebuke them?

    If men can fall to the temptation of the sin of the flesh so can women. Amen.

  20. Joshua Rownd

    Connie,
    Those so called feminists that marched have no respect for themselves or the environment as they just left all their signs on the street and did not take them with them. Then you had women, and I use the term loosely, who wrote messages on sanitary napkins and stuck them to the wall and hung their bras on a tree, oh then there was this one sign a woman had that said I will open my legs for any migrate. From what I have seen and read so far, I can assertain that feminists are nothing but, hags, sluts, and trailer trash that need to go through a course on female etiqutte. I praise God I have raised my daughter to respect her body and to be a fine Christian and respectable young woman, something feminists will never be except for the grace of God and Jesus in their life.

  21. G

    ‘Oh, the House just passed a bill to give the largest pay raise to the military in 6 years, thank you Trump.”

    Oh yeah, a lousy 2.1 percent raise. That will get eaten up by the cost of living. Not to mention they will be raising the copay and fees on the next generation of military people.

  22. Connie

    Joshua Rownd,

    Over two million women, men, and children marched and you fixate on the message of a sign or two? Dominionist much?

    Hags, sluts, and trailer trash – come come now. I’m sure those are not the only words you thought of when you saw (if you saw because Fox under covered the marches) this historic event. Be honest – your impulse was to tell all those females to get back into the boxes you and your Dominionist bretheren have defined.

    Nope to the power of seven. Our shackles are off, we will not allow ourselves to be enslaved again.

    The stories of empowerment and courage flooded the blogs I follow. The love shared was inspiring. Many who lacked confidence before have a renewed outlook. All who were involved understand they are not alone.

    But yes, Joshua, focus on the sanitary napkins glued to a wall – not that there is anything wrong with a normal part of millions of women’s lives being used as a messaging medium. You are fussy about it so the method worked. As for the bra trees – ah, I haven’t seen one of those since the protests against the war in Viet Nam. Glad they are in bloom again.

    In my opinion, two million people told the new president and all who support him that pussies are not for grabbing, that we are loud and proud, and we will no longer sit down and be quiet.

    Accept it or not Joshua – equality for all is coming and all the Dominionist tantrums will accomplish is a well earned time out. The next step is for the rest of humanity to accept the idea of equality for all or risk getting run over. There is no way to stop evolution. 🙂

    Added note – I’m a devout environmentalist so all the trash Joshua spoke of does disturb me, especially since every American city had an opportunity to place trash receptacles but did not (?). Maybe they did but the turnout far exceeded anyone’s predictions. In my city 40,000 were expected and over 100,000 showed. I guess all those Occupy seeds sprouted.

  23. Connie

    Pig believes women
    Who enjoy sex are evil.
    ‘Human’ is better

    If you don’t like abortion, don’t get one. For the rest, it must be available. Since the pig believes abortion is all about slutty women who don’t want to take responsibly here are the reasons I’m pro choice, a list gleaned from my years in group therapy at mental health centers and women’s shelters.

    • Incest (includes fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, cousins – and all the step varieties as well)
    • Molestation (includes ministers, preachers, priests, officers of the law, therapists. Generally anywhere a male in a position of authority abuses that power to take advantage of a female)
    • Rape (by stranger or more commonly, someone the woman knows)
    • Health (not all women are meant to carry children so either baby or the mother is placed in danger)

    The most important reason to ensure abortion is safe and legal is this – love. Planned Parenthood has a motto – Every child should be a wanted child. Those who lack empathy won’t understand this phrase.

    I have lost track of the number of people (men and women = people) who were told they weren’t wanted. The damage this does to a soul is beyond measure. It is a major reason for substance abuse and domestic violence. In my opinion having a child you do not want should be the crime but one step at a time.

    No forced birth, ever. Every child needs to be a wanted child in the house where they are raised.

  24. Connie

    Just re-read my last comment to the pig.

    I left out all the men who faced everything women have faced. My apologies as abuse is abuse, no matter who is on the receiving end.

    Going forward the emphasis needs to be placed on consent and ‘yes means yes’ If a woman or man can’t answer then sexual contact is not appropriate. And no sex with children. EVER. Until they can legally sign a contract they are to be left innocent. I hear one more ‘well she tempted me’ from one more preacher trying to cover up and justify sex with a minor….

    (Wanders off to use skills instead of focusing on violence which will only make the matter worse)

    Waiting for pigs thought police to take me to the gulag now. Pig? Where are you?

  25. Joshua Rownd

    Ms. Connie,
    I find it interesting that while one million women marched for women’s rights, 30 million women marched to the polls in November and voted in President Trump. What is not being announced is who was the organizer of this march was, Linda Sarsour, the Exec Dir. of the Arab American Assoc of NY who is an avowed anti-Semite, who has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and a firm supporter of Sharia Law, which everyone knows is anti woman and the subjugation of women. Unknowingly, those women who marched became the sheeple of radical Islam!

  26. Joshua Rownd

    10 Things Pro-Life Women Saw At The Women’s March
    http://studentsforlife.org/10-things-pro-life-women-saw-at-the-womens-march/

    Very interesting that they were not allowed to march. I guess pro-life women are considered traitors to womanhood.

  27. Joshua Rownd

    Ms.Connie,

    Would it be safe to say that you are not happy that Planned Parenthood international just took a big hit by being defunded as well as a federal funding for foreign abortions has just been cut off? I call this a victory for all unborn babies!

  28. Connie

    Joshua,

    I find it predictable when a Dominionist complains about Sharia law. Honestly, what difference is there between the rules of the Christian bible and the rules of the Quran? Perhaps some cultural items (see Butter Battle Book by Dr Seuss) but both religions stem from Abraham. Hard to be ‘different’ when you both come from the same tree.

    Now I have a few questions about your many assumptions-

    1st comment:
    • Are you sure Linda Sarsou is “a firm supporter of Sharia Law”? I ask because a woman who collaborates with others for performance art doesn’t strike me as a someone who is stuck in the past or who insists on a literal interpretation of their holy book.
    • How can Linda be anti-Semite when she supported Bernie for president? What statements has she made to support your allegation?

    2nd comment
    Those you call Pro-life do not share. It’s their way or no way. That is why they were not included in the march. See my comment on abortion above. Abortion needs to be safe, available, and legal.

    By the way, the ‘pro-life’ movement is misnamed. They are more accurately titled Forced Birth in my circle of friends.

    Which dovetails into your third comment. Yes I’m devastated that the lies spread by the GOP and Dominionists allowed Planned Parenthood to be defunded. So should you.

    Texas already tried to get rid of PP. The result? Infant and maternal mortality rates skyrocketed. You have to old enough to remember the hearings. Oh wait. You only believe your “alternative facts”, not reality.

    By all means, forced-birther, celebrate. And when women and their children begin to die (and Texas has the numbers proving my statement) remember it’s on you. You did this. Have fun explaining THAT to your Lord and Saviour.

  29. G

    “I call this a victory for all unborn babies!”

    Will society give these babies a good education, good paying job, good health care system, and a good retirement system once they leave the womb? Or tell them you are on your own once you leave the womb?

  30. G

    “A very useful phrase I have heard many parents tell their kids which yours should have told you is “you do not have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.””

    Gee AP, you obviously didn’t listen to your parents’ advice by the way you tried to denigrate people like Connie, me and Mr. Weinstein. Or were you following God’s advice to ignore your parent’s advice since you believe that God’s authority is more important than a parent’s authority?

  31. Joshua Rownd

    Ms. Connie-
    • Are you sure Linda Sarsou is “a firm supporter of Sharia Law”? I ask because a woman who collaborates with others for performance art doesn’t strike me as a someone who is stuck in the past or who insists on a literal interpretation of their holy book.

    Here is your answer – http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/figrues-organizer-dc-womens-march-linda-sarsour-pro-sharia-law-ties-hamas/

    • How can Linda be anti-Semite when she supported Bernie for president? What statements has she made to support your allegation? – Read this – http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265552/anti-semite-who-organized-womens-march-washington-john-perazzo

    2nd comment
    Those you call Pro-life do not share. It’s their way or no way. That is why they were not included in the march. It is their way or no way because God says there is no other way. With God there is only one choice, pro-life and no other way which He regards as murder and shedding innocent blood.

    You call it Forced Birth but that is such a small minority. I find it very hypocritical that the women who marched the other day were crying for Human Rights, well what about the human rights of an unborn child? What about the rights guaranteed by “we are guaranteed the the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.” You cannot have the last two without the first one. I heard someone say the other day after the march is that the one thing that all those woman had in common was that 100% of them were not aborted! Next on Trump’s agenda is to remove all federal funding for abortions, which is a big praise. Remember, 30 million women at the pools voted for life for the unborn. This coming weekend is the annual March for Life and I can guarantee there will be no burning of cars, leaving sanitary napkin messages left on walls, no signs left on the street and all those women, little girls and probably men as well will be marching to say we believe in the life of every born individual which was guaranteed to us by God himself.

  32. Joshua Rownd

    Mr. G,
    “Will society give these babies a good education, good paying job, good health care system, and a good retirement system once they leave the womb? Or tell them you are on your own once you leave the womb?”

    I am for a good education, but it is not happening in a public school, then every parent has the right to send their child to a school, public or private where they will get a good education. You cannot blame society in general for a poor education, but those who are in the educational system. There are teachers who should have never become teachers and they should be filtered out of our educational system in all states.

    Regarding college education, that is not a right but a privilege.

  33. Joshua Rownd

    Ms.Connie,
    What do you have to say about this?
    Yazidi Girls Sold as Sex Slaves while Women March against Trump
    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9824/yazidi-sex-slave-women-march

    If women are truly concerned about women’s rights, why are they not marching in front of the embassies of Muslim countries who are the biggest abusers of women’s rights? In Muslim countries have no rights at all, they are considered as property and dogs.

  34. Connie

    A quick note for Joshua

    1. The Christian bible supports abortion. A fetus is not a baby. Once a baby draws breath then it is defined as life, per your holy book. Shall I spank you like I’ve done before with AP the pig? I have my riding crop warmed up if you really want to play this game.
    2. Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit is known world wide as the dumbest man on the internet. No surprise here that you read him.
    3. Because Linda supports her faith you allege she is anti-Semite. The article you linked to gave only instances where she supported equal Human Rights for all. How could she be so horrible (snark in case you missed it)!

    You provided no evidence, only your alternative facts which the rest of reality calls lies. I am done with your dishonest ways.

    PS – it is obvious to me you only care about the women of Islam when you can use them as a political weapon against progressives who oppose you. Way to spread the love of Christ hypocrite.

  35. Joshua Rownd

    Ms.Connie,
    Huh, no the bible does not support abortion. A fetus is a human being, because it has two arms, two legs, 10 fingers, a beating heart, a brain, it feels pain in the womb, it has two eyes, all the major organs.

    Linda Sarsour is an anti-Semite because she calls for the BDS movement against Israel, she calls for a majority rule in Israel and minority rule and a divided Israel which God has said it is to be a united Israel under Jewish rule and law forever.

    I care for the women of Islam because they are part of a demonic religion which is all about subjugation and submission and I care about women who are aborting innocent children just to cover up their sins of immoral living. If women do not women then be on the pill, don’t spread your legs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that says he loves you, or practice abstinence.

    Did you know that Roe v Wade was based upon a total lie?? Thankfully, Trumps proposed pick for the Supreme Court next week is against Obama care and against Roe v Wade. Watch Roe v Wade go bye bye soon.

  36. Joshua Rownd

    Ms.Connie,
    Here is a full biography about Linda Sarsour from those who know her best, the Israeli’s.
    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/arab-regimes-behind-the-women-march-the-linda-sarsour-connection/2017/01/24/

  37. Joshua Rownd

    Ms. Connie,
    What do you have to say to this?
    GOLD STAR FAMILY MEMBERS SAY THEY WERE ASSAULTED DURING INAUGURAL BALL FESTIVITIES
    http://pamelageller.com/2017/01/family-members-fallen-soldiers-spat-assaulted-screamed-obscenities-inaugural-activities.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Better yet, will Mikey publically denounce this since it concerns the military and a Gold Star Widow.

  38. G

    “I am for a good education, but it is not happening in a public school, then every parent has the right to send their child to a school, public or private where they will get a good education. You cannot blame society in general for a poor education, but those who are in the educational system. There are teachers who should have never become teachers and they should be filtered out of our educational system in all states.”

    I can blame our top political, social, economic, and religious leaders for creating the poor educational system. The politicians have not made public schools a high priority for decades for kids to get a good education and have constantly been cutting funding for them. The business leaders have totally dis-invested themselves from investing in education while all the time whining about the lack of skilled workers. You also have business leaders only investing in college and universities in order to make money off of it. We need to have a national education policy like other countries have.

    For your information, you have to go to college these days to get blue collar technical education for jobs like welders, construction workers, machinists, auto body and repairs, solar and wind power workers, etc.

    If you want to weed out teachers, then you should also weed out people like CEOs, lawyers, politicians, doctors, police officers, military officers and NCOs from medical schools, law schools, business schools, military academies, and NCO schools and the police academies considering the fact how they have not served the society very well.
    Weed out teachers? Well I got news for you. In many counties back East, many teachers get hired only because they are family members or friends with people who serve on the board of education or you have to give a bribe to the interview panel to get a job. In the book Kids for Cash Scandel, some people in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, talk about how they could not get teaching jobs even though they were well qualified because they did not have the right connections or they had to pay a bribe in order to get the job. The people who serve on the American corporate boards of directors are no good when it comes to weeding out bad CEO candidates and the reason why is that a CEO of one company serves on the board of directors in other companies, so would you have is a tight social club of CEOs who will help each other out when one of them is looking for a job no matter how incompetent he/she is.

    College is definitely a right. The countries in Western Europe and Scandinavia have benefitted greatly by giving their population the ability to attend college without worrying about paying for it out of their own pocket. If you think that college is a privilege, then we should have not given the American World War II soldier, the GI Bil in order to attend college after the war; otherwise, we would not have all these scientific /technical achievements from all these GIs who came from the lower middle class, the working class and the poor class.

  39. G

    “Did you know that Roe v Wade was based upon a total lie??”

    The two wars with Iraq were based on total lies and the two Bushies and their Cabinet officials were never punished for what they have done.

    “If women do not women then be on the pill, don’t spread your legs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that says he loves you, or practice abstinence.”

    Men need to take responsibility when it comes to safe sex; otherwise, they should keep their pants on and their zips closed. Practice abstinence? What the American people need is a comprehensive sex education like they have for kids in Europe when they go to school.

  40. Connie

    Joshua,

    You asked me what I think, throwing propaganda at me as if you’ve found evidence that you and you alone are the only ‘worthwhile’ human in our discussion.

    Remember, you asked. Here is my answer. I believe your mind is closed. I believe it doesn’t matter if I provide factual evidence if it clashes with your biased view of the world. I also believe you are on the losing side of history. You won the battle with the election of Trump and in doing so you’ve lost the war. Young humans are rejecting your message in overwhelming numbers.

    First the dumbest man on the internet and now Islamaphobe and provocateur Geller – both spreaders of alternative facts. You really need to expand your viewing. If I remember the characters in the Christian bible one side tells the truth and the other lies. Ya know, lies in the name of Jesus or God are still lies. Perhaps you need to read the book again and not just the highlighted parts.

  41. Joshua Rownd

    Ms. Connie,
    I will always be on the right side of history, because I am on the right side of God. You history is really His story.

    Pamela Geller knows all about radical Islam, one because she is Jewish, and at least she does not bury her head about the threats of radical Islam. Yes people be afraid of Islam, for the word itself does not mean peace but submission to everyone who is not a Muslim, which includes you and me,

    You have not answered my question, how do you feel about those anarchists who spat upon a Gold Star widow and hassled other military vets? Will you denounce that type of hatred??

    If Mikey will not denounce it is truly is not for our military, but only for himself.

    Besides, Trump will soon if not tomorrow sign an executive order cutting off all immigration from Muslim countries. “American First”

  42. Mark Sebree

    Joshua Rownd,

    The Bible does detail an abortion procedure as a test of a woman’s infidelity. (There is no test of a man’s infidelity). The location is Numbers 5, and its pretty much the entire chapter. That facts that you cannot face facts does not speak well of you. The fact that you rely on your religion for your answers rather than reality speaks worse.

  43. G

    “Besides, Trump will soon if not tomorrow sign an executive order cutting off all immigration from Muslim countries. “American First””

    Why don’t Trump sign an executive order cutting off American companies from importing foreign workers on the V1B visa and put American workers first plus started to invest in American education so the kids can get a good education?

  44. G

    Trump could also start by going after American companies who hired illegal immigrants and stripped the companies of the business license (a business license is a privilege, not a right), and throwing the CEOs into prisons a prison sentence of 25 years with no possibility of an early parole or having any kind of credit to reduce their prison terms.

  45. G

    “The fact that you rely on your religion for your answers rather than reality speaks worse.”

    Yeah, if we rely on religion for answers, we still be back in the Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire.

  46. G

    “I will always be on the right side of history, because I am on the right side of God.”

    Yeah and the Christians got thrown out of the Holy Land by the Muslims even though they thought they were on the right side of God. The Jews were thrown out by the Romans and the Babylonians even though they thought that they were God’s chosen people. Bush, Jr., thought he was on the right side of God when he stated that God told him to end tyranny in Iraq and look how that has turn out.

    The Germans thought God was on their side. Remember the German World War II belt buckle saying that God was with us?

  47. Connie

    Joshua, you wrote “Yes people be afraid of Islam, for the word itself does not mean peace but submission to everyone who is not a Muslim, which includes you and me,”

    And that isn’t your goal as well? Thank you for proving the point that you and your Dominonist bretheren are exactly the same as the radical Islamists you fear so much. Share we eradicate you as you wish to do to others? It is the Golden Rule (Biblical even).

  48. G

    If you want to weed out teachers, get rid of these teachers in business and economics and business journalists who preach the no government intervention in the economy and that raising wages will cost jobs since the evidence has been made plainly clear that those two economic theories have as failed miserably. Also get rid of CEOs who don’t have technical skills in math, science, chemistry, physics, biology and other qualifications that are needed to run manufacturing jobs like building ships,, automobiles, planes, steel, copper, solar and wind power, etc. Most of them have economic, business or financial degrees. You tried to explain something to them and they don’t have a clue of what you are talking about. They need to know how their product is created like Japanese executive do in their country. In Germany, the CEOs there have no respect for CEOs in other countries who don’t have the technical knowledge and degrees when it comes making products.

    Also get rid of bankers, HMOs CEOs, and insurance presidents who think that their job is to make money and nothing else. Their job is to give out the money and services when people need them. We are not giving them our money in order to make them rich.

  49. Joshua Rownd

    Mark,
    Sorry to burst your bubble but Numbers 5 has nothing to do with abortion and any Old Testament scholar would agree with this!

  50. Mark Sebree

    JR,

    If you are who I think you are, you are not known for your knowledge of science. You are not known for your honesty, nor your depth or breadth of knowledge. You also have a serious problem with willful ignorance and conformational bias. You will ignore any biblical scholar who’s opinion disagrees with your own, and you will ignore all logical, reasonable, and/or scientific explanations which counter your opinions.

    The priest is supposed to use the raw grain and the sweeping of the temple floor to make the drink to give to the woman. That means that it is likely that the drink will contain a fungus that is known as ergot, which is known to cause miscarriages in pregnant women. Add to this the fact that it is meant to test the “infidelity of women”. There is really only one way to know if a woman has not been “faithful” to her husband/owner, and that is if she is pregnant and the husband/owner was not there to have sex with her. That means, and from its description of the effects if the woman has been “unfaithful” it does, that it has to cause a miscarriage of the pregnancy, which means an abortion since the cause was imposed on the woman.

    Notice that there is never any means given to test if a man has been “unfaithful”, or does there seem to be any meaningful prohibition against it.

  51. Joshua Rownd

    Mark,
    Science has nothing to do with this chapter in Numbers 8. There are no words speaking about abortion or miscarriage.

    There is no test that can prove a man has been unfaithful unless he admits to it or with DNA testing today you match semen in the vagina to any man that may have had sex with the woman, but there was not DNA testing 3,000 years ago.

  52. Mark Sebree

    JR,

    Then you were not paying attention to what you were reading. As usual. Ergot is a fungus found on grains like wheat, rye, and barley. Ingesting the alkaloids from the fungus can cause convulsive and gangrenous like symptoms. That includes gangrene in the extremities. And besides the other uses that women have used it for, it is dangerous to pregnant women, which generally means to the embryo/fetus, as are most poisons.

    And you still miss the point. The priests were supposed to be using a “magic potion” to determine whether or not a woman was “unfaithful”. Of course, the potion was not actually magic, and all it did was to cause a miscarriage/abortion. However, if the priests could actually work magic, then it stands to reason that they would be able to devise a potion that would show what men had been unfaithful as well. That is well within the realm of magic, after all. And you are the one that believes in magic, not me.

  53. G

    With people like AP, Rev Bob, Yeshua Warrior, and now JR, it is no wonder why it took Europe to get out from the Dark Ages and even when it did, you had people like Galileo who were persecuted by the church authorities because they dare to bring back logic, science, math, imagination, and curiosity that was lost after Rome fell. Even though the Romans and Egyptians were no less superstitious, they were still practical people when it came to science, medicine, sanitation, government, mathematics, engineering; otherwise, they would not have been great nations during their time.

  54. Joshua Rownd

    Mr. Mark,
    Go back and read Numbers 5 very closely, nowhere is there any allusion or reference that the woman in question is even pregnant, but there is reference in the passages there that if she is found not guilty then she then maybe able conceive, ergo, she is not pregnant!! Don’t read into the passages what is not even there!

    You may want to read this: https://www.gotquestions.org/Numbers-abortion.html

    Also, I am conferring with someone I know who is an Old Testament and Hebrew Scholar, who has his Phd in Semitic languages and who speaks and reads biblical Hebrew fluently and who is also Jewish just to throw that in.

  55. G

    Yeah JR, and right wing gun nuts need to re-read the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution where it states a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State. They seem to forget that part when it comes to the right to bear arms. Also religious people like you need to re-read the First Amendment when it comes to the separation of church and state.

  56. Connie

    Where is JR’s peer reviewed response from his biblical scholar? He’s had days. The scholars have had hundreds of years and yet there is no evidence posted proving JRs claim.

    People I’ve talked to, not biblical scholars but intelligent people, agree that there are no verses condemning abortion. The ‘bitter water’ Mark talks about in Numbers 5 isn’t called an abortificant by name. The results of drinking the brew are why it’s called one in modern times.

    Abortion has been around since the first woman was raped. For JR to claim otherwise is to deny thousands of years of pagan knowledge passed down from mother to daughter. Pennyroyal anyone?

  57. Joshua Rownd

    Connie,
    My scholar is a very busy man with his own daily radio program and has been out of the states for awhile in Singapore teaching and he gets hundreds of thousands of emails.
    Meanwhile, any first year seminary student would tell you that those passages in Numbers 5 has nothing to do abortion.

    There are no verses that specifically that mention the word abortion, however, there are verses talking about how God abhores the shedding of innocent blood which abortion does. Also, the Canaanites would throw their babies into the fire alive to the god Molech which was child sacrifice and that is what abortion is, child sacrifice. You have in Jeremiah 1:5 where God tells the prophet Jeremiah that before he was even born, God knew him and appointed him before he was even born to be a prophet to the nations.

    The verses in Numbers 5 even does not refer to any type of abortificant as well. Once again, you are reading in the verses which is not even there.

  58. G

    “Also, the Canaanites would throw their babies into the fire alive to the god Molech which was child sacrifice and that is what abortion is, child sacrifice. You have in Jeremiah 1:5 where God tells the prophet Jeremiah that before he was even born, God knew him and appointed him before he was even born to be a prophet to the nations.”

    Well, the Israelis committed war of extermination when they came back to their homeland after leaving Egypt sparing no one not even the babies or any pregnant women plus even killing their own people and even God killed his own people as well: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

  59. G

    “Meanwhile, any first year seminary student would tell you that those passages in Numbers 5 has nothing to do abortion.”

    You sure about that, JR? When you look at how US constitutional experts having their own interpretations regarding ut the US Constitution, then it is fair to say that you have Biblical scholars disagreeing about what the scriptures in the Bible are actually saying.

  60. Connie

    Evil never serves it’s own purpose.

    In another conversation on this site JR provided a link to their biblical scholars web site. While on my very old smart phone (iPhone 4 no less) I wandered about looking for information on abortion. I found sermons and videos (along with many requests to pay to see everything – not happening). You know what I didn’t find? There weren’t any biblical verses specifically condemning the act of abortion. Lots of personal opinion. Nothing from the Christian bible.

    Thanks JR for helping me to prove my point. Again and again and again.

  61. Joshua Rownd

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