Thoughts

Mikey , you are such a disappointment to the human race. No matter how much you try , The Air Force will always be a predominately Christian Force . You however will burn in hell someday .

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
From: Martin France
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Date: August 29, 2019 at 7:24:35 PM MDT
To: Mikey Weinstein
(name withheld), I sometimes respond to emails like yours sent to the MRFF and/or Mikey.  (BTW, I presume that you’re a USAFA grad based upon your core value signature.  If that’s incorrect, let me know.)  I, too, am a grad (’81), brother of a grad and father of another grad, and have been a supporter of the MRFF since its founding.  Following retirement last year, Mikey invited me to be a member of the MRFF advisory board and I enthusiastically agreed. 
 
It’s okay that you disagree with Mikey’s position–that’s your right.  But, while a majority of those serving in the Air Force may identify as being Christian, you simply cannot make the claim that the Air Force is a “Christian Force” unless you completely disavow the Constitution that, at some time I presume, you swore to protect and defend.  Our military is made up of thousands of great people who serve and come from a variety of religious perspectives.  I identify as an Atheist, but served 35+ years of active duty because I found it incredibly rewarding to play an active role in DEFENDING a Constitution that prohibits the establishment of a state religion and also prohibits a religious test for those serving in any public position of trust.  I had friends and colleagues from all other religious perspectives serving with me, but only ONE GROUP actively discriminated against me for my beliefs–evangelical, fundamentalist Christians.  That’s why I support the MRFF.  Not because it’s anti-Christian, but because it’s pro-freedom, pro-equality, pro-Constitution.
 
You are perfectly free to believe or even be convinced that Mikey will burn in hell.  I, frankly, think he (like I) will gracefully (or not so gracefully) decompose.  And, I think he’ll do so while being missed deeply, venerated by those he protected and served, fought for and defended, and memorialized by the organization that does more to support and defend the Constitution than many, many others that (in opposition) seek to turn our military into a religious, tribalized force of Handmaid’s Tale-style “commanders” fighting for their own tribal superstitions—organizations that are clearly anathema to our Constitutional heritage.
 
Again, (name withheld)yo u’re free to believe what you want.  I have tons of friends who are very devout Christians.  Good for them.  I’ll defend their right to practice their faith, while on active duty or not, according to regulations and our Constitution.  BUT, (name withheld), you do NOT have the right to subvert our Constitution with your religious views or influence and degrade our military and government by suggesting or promoting that our military be a “predominantly Christian Force.”  That’s illegal.  If you want a government whose military is a religious force, then you need to time travel my friend, back a few Centuries to a much bloodier time–an era our fore-bearers escaped and then used as a negative example to shape our great nation.  Or, you could just change religions and go somewhere that fully embraces mixing religion and religious power.  Iran comes to mind.  There’s what’s left of ISIS.  You have the same perspective as them in many ways–but they aren’t doing so well either.  It’s worked out well for both of them and the region, don’t ya think?
 
PS – Thanks for your service!  Go Falcons!
 
Cheers,
Marty France, USAFA ’81
MRFF Advisory Board Member

Response from MRFF President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]militaryreligiousfreedom.org>
Date: August 29, 2019 at 3:43:57 PM MDT
To: (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Hello there, little snowflake… It looks like you may have never actually graduated from high school from the ignorant and ill conceived way you wrote your pedestrian little message of hate…Anyway, please remember that there is always time to get that GED so strongly consider it, tiny sport… What do you say?
Mikey Weinstein

You are the pussy snowflake.  You know what I said is true about the Air Force . Christian all the way .

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF President Mikey Weinstein

On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Mikey Weinstein wrote:

I see I hit a nerve with you, little flower… You seem to be pretty insecure… No need to tremble so much when I reach out to you… There, there just calm down… Of course you are completely wrong about the Air Force and everything else that you sent… I just don’t want you to further wet your pants and brown your trousers over all of this… It’s OK… Just breathe and think of pop tarts and chocolate milk… Your cowardly ignorant and bigoted behavior is the exact opposite of the US Air Force’s three core values you keep including in your emails… It seems pretty obvious that you are a tragic example of what happens when a fetus doesn’t get enough oxygen at birth…


From: (name withheld)
Date: August 29, 2019 at 4:03:46 PM MDT
To: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]militaryreligiousfreedom.org>
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Air Force and Christianity always together .

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere
On Aug 29, 2019, at 4:58 PM, John Compere  wrote:

 

(name withheld),
 
Your absurd & asinine attempt to threaten a fellow American you do not even know with your vacuous & vengeful version of an afterlife is as humorous as it is hypocritical. It only reflects on yourself & reveals a pathetically pernicious person who has nothing better to do with his life than inflict infantile invectives on others.
 
The secular military mission (which includes the USAF) is to defend our nation against its enemies (not promote or endorse a religion). The secular military service oath (which includes the USAF) is to bear true faith & allegiance to the US Constitution (not to a religion). The Constitution 1st Amendment requires the military (which includes the USAF), as a department of government, to remain neutral regarding religion (neither pro-religion nor anti-religion but religion-neutral). This is also mandated by military regulations (which includes the USAF).
 
The Department of Defense (which includes the USAF) recognizes military religious & non-religious diversity with its official list currently including 221 different belief groups. The Department of Veteran Affairs (which includes USAF) official list for military grave emblems currently includes 70 different religious & non-religious belief groups.
 
You are cordially invited to join the American 21st Century.
 
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Advisory Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation

Response from MRFF Supporter
On Aug 29, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Sandy Bell  wrote:

 

(name withheld),

You feel good writing like that to someone who is an advocate for civil rights? To someone who has been brutalized for just being born Jewish? Whose children have been on the receiving end of abuse for being Jewish. This brutality coming from within the armed forces? You feel good writing this to a Military Veteran Officer who served in the White House?
Leaving the fictitious lake of burning fire out of it – I speak from my own opinion – this thought does not represent the thousands of Christians who are clients of Mikey’s in the MRFF – I think it’s weird that you think Mikey has some power to make an entire branch of the military a particular religion. It’s also weird that you think the Air Force is Christian. Evidence please? Either way, that’s totally made up and very odd indeed.
The MRFF is an equal opportunity neutralizer meaning it’s all about separation of church and state. Mainly to protect normal people like myself from people like you that think it’s cool to be oppressive about their religion. You proved our point: there are religiously bigoted people like yourself trying to force their religion down our throats. That’s not very American. Nor “Christian” of you. Or is it? It’s not loving, that’s for sure. Nor accurate, nor helpful.
Get it together.
Signed,
Sandra Bell
USAF Veteran, MRFF Supporter, 1st Amendment Supporter

The fact that he is fighting the services is the only fact I need
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Supporter Sandra Bell
On Aug 29, 2019, at 5:25 PM, Sandra  wrote:

 

(name withheld),
 
Surely if any entity is abusing their authority and power to control the masses in ways that are abusive then I would imagine you would appreciate someone stepping in to protect the innocent. That’s what he does. No one should be told they are going to burn in hell, no one should be forced to attend a religious ceremony when it is not their religion, no one should endure any kind of violence at all from the people that they work for and with. It saddens me that someone would not see things the way that they are. Mikey is a wonderful human being and what is unfortunate is people would rather listen to smears and false narratives and then condemn him in writing as you just did. Isn’t that kind of what happened to Jesus? Read the testimonials on MRFFs page. 
 
I am one of the people who do not want a bible on the table at the VA. Do you know that it is a lie that the bible was not at a POW camp? That Trump is looking to get votes from the evangelical base? Does that not concern you? Maybe it doesn’t. But it should. I can only imagine it wouldn’t concern you because this happens to be your religion. Well, I am an atheist and I think religion poisons everything. And that doesn’t make me not American. And I won’t be told to go to a different country. And the person who sued the VA was not Mikey, it is a practicing Christian that goes to our VA. It’s principle. And it’s supposed to be secular.
 
I’m not sure what separation of church and state means to you, but it means a lot to me and it is one of the things that makes America great. We need to keep this a secular nation as our Constitution has stated it should be.
 
I am glad I don’t think a person who is merely standing up for innocent people, oppressed in nefarious ways – the stories are on MRFFs websites for you to see – that person would be revered by a god if their were one. You didn’t help anyone or anything by writing what you did. You just added to the suffering in this world. What a horrible thing to say to someone. Your bible tells you not to condemn. Who are you? Nobody.
 
Sandra Bell

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 8:18 PM  wrote:
I respect your first amendment rights .  I love the Bible and I love it at a POW table . If it werent for Christian warriors in WWII , Mikey would not be here . I love that my VA has a Bible in the waiting area . The Bible doesnt pick itself up . People pick it up if they choose .
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Supporter Sandra Bell
On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Sandra wrote:
(name withheld),
A bible is in your VA waiting area? It’s not in my waiting area. It’s in the front lobby upon entrance. And it is on a POW table. And it is huge. And you are massively uninformed. The bible is bolted to the table in locked plexiglass. No one can pick it up. And the reason why it was put on the table to begin with turned out to be a lie. The POW group here in NH lied. It was never in a POW camp. The POW told the interviewer he got it when he got home. It’s all a ruse for votes and Christian exceptionalism. On public, military property where I get my healthcare. On front and center display upon entry. Not okay.
Your religion isn’t the “right religion” and the USAF is NOT Christian.
You claim to have the ability to have respect for others. Personal opinion only, as all different religious affiliations are supported by MRFF, but do you respect the millions of children who were/continue to be raped by the group that is represented on the table? Because it’s a Catholic bible. When I look at it that’s what I see. There is nothing honorable about that religion and I don’t need that filth on a table that is meant to be secular in representation anyhow. I can’t stand there and think about POWs. I think of the disgusting crimes of that organization. The Catholic Church has had trouble with ruining the lives of countless innocent children since the religion’s inception in 4th century when they actually had to pass legislation stating that the clergy is not to touch children. I’m not going to pick that crap up and read it. If I want to I can go somewhere else to do that. This is obvious Christian exceptionalism that fairs well for you, that’s the only reason why you are saying anything.
It’s disrespectful. The entire thing. And you have been disrespectful – telling someone they are going to burn in hell and that they are a disgrace to the human race. That kind of thinking is demented.
Bottom line – you feel like you won because you have a you against them mentality. That is a severely limiting way to live. If you want to treat your fellow man and fellow soldier the way that you just did, knock yourself out. You are on the wrong side of humanity, though. If there is a god, they’d be pretty disappointed in what you have said to Mikey unless they got off on hurting others. Which is up for debate.
Either way – you can remain ignorant and hurtful about this topic and not stand up for others that are oppressed by religion within the military. You don’t have to be a “good Christian” or a “good fellow American”. We will do our best to not let your toxicity hold our species back.
I say just choose kindness or at the very least seek understanding. This isn’t your battle anyhow. Why jump in and throw elbows? So what – 16 people at a VA medical center want the table to remain secular for obvious reasons. And you want to speak the way you did to someone you don’t know with a massive amount of unkindness? What would Jesus do? Not that, I can assure you. What is the point of your religion exactly? Where’s the integrity?
I suppose I have nothing left to say on the subject. Except that I believe you owe Mikey an apology. But if you would like to remain ignorant and hateful about this and have a target to aim all your disappointment in life on, that’s on you. I would ask more of myself, personally. But if you wanted to win or you feel like you are winning and you want to kick someone that you think is down, then you do you. Congratulations on your bible. Is that what you want to hear? Congratulations on your bible and Mikey’s condemnation. Way to go.
I’ve got nothing else to add. I’d imagine you don’t either. Bye.
Ms. Bell

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:39 PM  wrote:
I see Mikey has put his dogs on me . No one is cramming anything down your throats . Why are you so afraid of a book ? If you do not like it , then dont read it . Are you going to try and have the Academy Chapel torn down . You all can keep writing .  You are totally outnumbered
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Supporter Sandra Bell
On Aug 30, 2019, at 5:02 AM, Sandra  wrote:
I am not a dog. You have never learned what kindness and respect is, have you? Your responses show that you haven’t thought about what I wrote to you. Disrespectful act #105. Perhaps you haven’t even read my emails. Maybe you have the same philosophy towards my emails that you want me to adopt towards not regarding the bible – don’t like it, don’t read it.
You are disrespectful, through and through. You are a lost cause.
I’m done communicating with you. A waste is a terrible thing to mind. I am SO glad that I am who I am and that I am not you. You are the lamest of the lame.
There is no kindness in Christianity. You have just proven that. One of hundreds within my time.
BYE
Sandra

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Aug 30, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Mike  wrote:

Hi (name withheld),

It’s the eye of the beholder thing, I think. To you, and apparently to a good many faux Christians, Mikey

is a source of fear. For the rest of us, those who don’t see the world exclusively through a dominionist filter and others who have allowed themselves the freedom of thought, he’s a hero.

Are you suggesting the U.S. Air Force has more more Christians in it than members of any other faith or belief system? I don’t know of a count having been done, but that would be utterly irrelevant in a free society. So even if that might be the case doesn’t make it a Christian organization, despite your apparent wish. it’s part of the American Government and as such is subject to the separation of church and state.

As far as one’s final outcome is concerned, you’re welcome to your fantasy. That’s two, by my count.

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


 

 

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28 Comments

  1. Amber Thompson

    Freedom of Religion, also means Freedom FROM Religion, pence is attacking the constitution, I vowed to protect the constitution fro ALL enemies Foreign, and domestic.
    re:
    (My oath of enlistment. “”I, Amber L. Thompson, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed … Unless same orders contradict moral and lawful duty!”)

  2. An Old Soldier

    Mikey Weinstein is such a mature person from reading his replies. He and the MRFF are nothing but a bunch of glorified playground bullies. Instead of worrying about a Bible on a table why don’t they do something to REALLY help veterans instead of wasting time and money with frivolous threats and lawsuits.

  3. OldSoldier

    I want to share a beautiful Soldiers prayer I saw online. I don’t care if I get slammed for this. We are one nation under God. I hope little Mikey reads this but I think he’s too dumb to understand

    Father,
    Thank you for the example of David, the warrior king who poured out his heart to you from the midst of battle. Whether he was running for his life, fighting for his countrymen, or celebrating a victory, his thoughts often turned to you.
    Sometimes he wept in fear and frustration. Other times he wrestled with doubt, discouragement, or loneliness. When sin broke his heart (and yours), he talked to you then, too. His example reminds me I can come to you no matter what I’m facing, and you will hear my prayer.
    I praise you, Father, as Lord of the universe and the supreme commander in chief. You direct world affairs for your purpose and your glory. Nothing happens apart from your will. I can rest, knowing that everything that comes into my life has been filtered through your fingers of love. Help me trust you and believe. When my faith wavers, help me in my unbelief.
    You tell us in your Word that if we regard sin in our hearts, you will not hear us, so I begin this time of prayer with confession. Forgive me, Lord, for the ways I’ve failed you. For the times when I’ve sinned against you in word, thought, or deed. Forgive me, too, for the times when I could have done good, but didn’t. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.I am an old Soldier who believes we are one nation under God.

  4. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier,

    I respect your right to say what you say.

    I also feel it is my duty to call you out for the god-awful stupid things you say. For example, you wrote “wasting time and money with frivolous threats and lawsuits.”.

    Defending the Constitution is frivolous? An endeavor not having any serious purpose or value? Really? Didn’t you take the oath to fight to defend that same Constitution you are calling frivolous here?

    I’m not sure of anyone else but I have a problem with someone who fought for this nation having so little idea of why they were fighting. It certainly wasn’t because of God because that would be silly. Whose God? And if there are people of faith on both sides and they each believed the same and each fought for their deity, well, how to tell which side is supposed to win?

    The founding fathers understood the puzzle as they’d read history. That would be why there isn’t a recognized religion in the Constitution.

    Old Soldier should know that. It’s embarrassing they don’t.

  5. OldSoldier

    Don’t you DARE lecture me about the oath I took mister. I put my life on the line in Desert Storm and I carried a religious medal in my pocket that my grandfather carried in World War II. I fought against a tyrant and dictator and God was on our side. The soldiers in World War II were a Godly generation fighting against Hitler and Japan. The men who fought in Korea and Vietnam fought against Godless Communist devils who wanted to take over the world and the men and women who serve in the war on terror fight for right as well. Joe Louis the great boxer said it best . He served in World War II and said we would win because God is on our side. I put it on the line for 25 years and would do it all over in a heartbeat don’t you dare question my patriotism.

  6. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier,

    You will find I dare. A lot.

    Here’s why: with one breath you pound your chest with over the top Nationalism and the next breath insist “There can be only One” as you stomp on the Constitution.

    You don’t share. I get it. What you don’t understand is you sound just like every other Theocrat and Fascist in history. It’s really not a good look for you.

    Before you bellow at me because I struck a nerve perhaps you should quietly reflect as to why I have such an unflattering view of you, Old Soldier.

    PS – there have always been and always will be more than just Christians fighting in wars. The fact you refuse to acknowledge their contributions as they risked it all right next to you is a big part of why I called you a bigot.

  7. G

    Old Soldier

    If God was on our side, we wouldn’t have lost at Pearl Harbor, the Phillippines, Wake Island, Guam, etc., and the British wouldn’t have lost Hong Kong, Malaysia, Burma while the Dutch won’t have lost the East Indies because they were Christians.

  8. OldSoldier

    G remember we won World War II and defeated the forces of evil and God was there. In Korea and Vietnam we fought godless Communist devils threatening Democracy. In Desert Storm and the war on terror we fought for freedom and prevailed. There is a God and you need to accept him. As a nation we are in need of his love and guidance. Look how hateful we’ve become. God is always the answer no matter what the MRFF FOOLS say

  9. G

    Old Solider. You remember that you had American companies like IBM and Ford supporting the forces of evil in World War II until FDR told them to knock it off. What democracy in Vietnam and Korea. They were dictatorships right from the beginning when they got their independence. God was there, so what? The German Army belt buckles had the inscription Gott Mit Uns.

    The two Gulf Wars were setups by the Republican Party along with their Kuwait and anti-Saddam allies. There were no WMDs and there was no evidence that Saddam was behind 9/11 and we went in there for the oil as later Republican officials admitted plus Saddam had outlived his usefulness as an ally against Iran.

    You have no proof that God exists. You can blame the right-wing wealthy people, right-wing politicians, and right-wing business people for causing all the hate in the USA .aided and abetted by the right-wing Christian groups. The war on terror has not ended and Bush, Jr., even stated that when he said that we have no idea how long it will last.

    God is not the answer when you look at how we discover things to cure measles, polio, repair human bodies from accidents and gunshot wounds, etc.

  10. OldSoldier

    Listen you miserable idiot. How dare you dishonor the soldiers who fought in those wars and say there sacrifice was for nothing. Even if you don’t agree with the reasons we went to war in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm and the war on terror you love and respect the men and women who were willing to die for God and country. Did YOU ever serve in the military. If you haven’t keep your mouth shut.

  11. G

    No, you listen. Those soldiers died for nothing and you know it. I doubt many of them were willing to die for God and country You talk to soldiers and many of them stated that they are willing to die for their fellow soldiers. Hardly any of them think of God and country when the bullets start flying.

    Quit using the phrase “did you ever serve in the military?”It is irrelevant to the argument at hand and just because you serve in the military, doesn’t give you any special rights and/or privileges than rest of society, so you need to keep your mouth shut. Don’t like it pack up and move to China, North Korea or to some US back right-wing junta/
    Description
    Oligarchy in Central and South America..

  12. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier you insufferable fact challenged blow hard,

    We didn’t go to war in Korea, it was a police action.

    For someone who claims to be smart you sure do screw up the details, don’t you?

  13. G

    “Even if you don’t agree with the reasons we went to war in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm and the war on terror you love and respect the men and women who were willing to die for God and country.””

    Well golly gee, should I disrespect the German soldiers even though they were fighting for their country in both World Wars?

  14. OldSoldier

    Grey One you insufferable horses rear end
    There were 50,000 US soldiers who died in Korea it was a WAR
    G I cannot believe that you compare American soldiers to Nazis Would you like to tell a loved one of one of those soldiers that they died for nothing. Why don’t you go to a veterans cemetary or a VA hospital and see the terrible cost of war. You show some respect to those who gave all. Less then one percent of all people ever serve in the military and I will say I served anytime I damn please it is relevant. It seems to me I did what you weren’t man enough to do

  15. G

    Old Soldier, the American soldiers helped to wipe the Native American Indians, helped to murder thousands of people in Asia and Central and South America in order to make those areas safe for American business interests, were used to break up strikes by workers in the 19th and 20th century, fought a war with the coal mine workers in West Virginia (Blair Mountain 1921) and even massacre American workers in Ludlow, Colorado.

    I wouldn’t mind telling someone that their loved one had died for nothing.

    “Less then one percent of all people ever serve in the military….”

    Yeah, and you have more and more of the people in the 1% top economic class of America along with much the upper-class Americans who are not serving in the military because they think that military service is for suckers and poor people. They all know about the costs of war and are not going to risk their lives for their country and their fellow Americans. Michael Moore asks a group of businesspeople how many of their kids were in the military and not one hand when up. Bush, Jr. was in the military; however, he pulled strings to get himself out of going to Vietnam.

    General Schwarzkopf didn’t care about the costs of war with regards to the soldiers under his command when he had denied that they were exposed to chemical weapons after blowing up the ammo bunkers in Iraq until an ex-colonel called him out on it when the colonel had testified before Congress.

    See the terrible cost of war? American culture sanitizes the war so much that we don’t see the cost of it. You have a lot of politicians like Bush, Senior and Bob Dole who have been in a war; however, they never learn from it and continue to get us involved in more wars. Even the Pentagon doesn’t want to talk about the costs of war. After the First Gulf War, the Pentagon wish that all the soldiers who the Gulf War Syndrome would just go away and died.

    The only way that America will know the true cost of war is when our country suffers the same kind of devastation that we inflicted on other countries and suffered 20 million or more dead like the Russians had suffered during the Second World War. The last time we had suffered such devastation and the number of dead and wounded was the American Civil War which was 158 years ago.

    Your question about servicing in the military is irrelevant to the argument at hand and you know it.

  16. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier, people die every day. And yeah, what happened during the Police Action in Korea was brutal. But the Nation of the USA never declared war, so no, it wasn’t an official war.

    I’m rather CDO on facts (OCD but in alphabetical order, as it should be).

  17. G

    Old Soldier, South Korea was not a democracy before, during and long after the Korean War and either was South Vietnam.

  18. G

    “You show some respect to those who gave all.”

    Yeah, tell that to the wealthy people and business leaders who used the private and public sector police plus the National Guard and Regular Army to beat down and even murder World War I veterans when they went on strike during the 1920s and 30s for better wages, and better working and living conditions. Remember the Bonus Army? They got no respect from General McArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton. Read the book The Wages of War which talks about how America has shown no respect to its soldiers ever since the American Revolutionary War.

  19. OldSoldier

    Grey One and G you have to be two of the most callous people I’ve ever heard of. LISTEN TO ME in Korea and Vietnam almost a hundred thousand men and women gave their lives and thousands more came home maimed forever and there were thousands more whose fate is unknown. Even if you hate your country and our military which you apparently do. Those brave men and women were willing to die for their country and were proud to serve which you two apparently weren’t or you’d understand. I advise both of you to show some damn respect. You can blame our government for the mistakes it made (I admit its made plenty) but you honor and love those who never came home.

  20. G

    Old Soldier, it is you who is callous because you don’t have any sense of objectivity. South Vietnam and South Korea were never democratic countries and were right-wing dictatorships that the US has supported since the end of World War II. In addition, Ho Che Minh tried to get our support since 1919 to get independent from France, but we rejected him several times. If we had back him up, we would have never fought in Vietnam in the first place. The US military was used to spied on Americans since the 1920s and have been used to suppress worker strikes during the 19th and 20th centuries and that’s a fact.

    The Republican Party, the wealthy people, and the American business leaders are far more callous with the way they have treated the American people ever since this country was founded and they hate the America even when the country gave them everything that they wanted. The American wealthy people and the business leaders only like the military when it protects their social, political, and economic interests; otherwise, they don’t want to hear or see the US military..

    Again your remark about whether someone serves in the military or not is irrelevant Blame the government? Well, then I guess I can let the ordinary German citizen off the hook during the Third Reich period since he/she loves his/her country just as much as we do right or wrong. Blame the government? Sorry, but too many Americans let themselves be bamboozled by the Republican Party about Iraq and Afghanistan and blindly obey what the party told them and also attack physically and mentally the people (like Michael Moore and the Dixie Chicks) who tried to tell them the truth. We are no better than the Germans who follow and obey Adolf Hitler. Show some respect to the ordinary German soldier even though he was fighting for a bad government. He was a far better soldier than the American soldier.

    Advise to show respect? What if I don’t want to? You can’t do anything about it and you know it. Why don’t you show respect to the separation of church and state in America and show some brotherly love to people of different religions even if they are different from Christianity?

    Show me some document that I must blindly honor, respect and love the troops considering the fact that even military people turn on each other and do not respect, love, and honor each other. As I have already stated General Schwarzkopf didn’t care about the troops when he exposed them to chemical weapons after blowing up the ammo bunkers and then denying that those bunkers had chemical weapons. The Pentagon did not honor, love, and respect about the troops who had the Gulf War Syndrome denied their conditions and wish they would die.

  21. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier,

    I’ve yet to show disrespect for the warriors who served their country. I just refuse to believe everyone who sacrificed all were only Christian. And there is part of the issue.

    I do mock your religion Old Soldier. It is my patriotic duty to mock. Religion is one of the big reasons warriors have to die and in my opinion it’s dumb. But I’m not in charge so my opinion means nothing.

    There are many ways to serve ones country. You, Old Soldier, believe the only true way is to fight or die for it. Your belief is wrong because no one exists in a vacuum, including soldiers. There are support staff both civilians and military who have earned my respect. But not if they pushed their religion in places it’s not meant to go.

    As long as Religion and The Church insist the wall between themselves and The State is only a suggestion I will continue to mock. As I’ve said, it’s my patriotic duty.

    Nice deflection – that whole you’ve desecrated the dead thing had me for a minute. But you really don’t understand what I’m saying under the snark and that makes me sadder than all the dead warriors.

  22. OldSoldier

    G you bet your life I am not “objective” when it comes to loving my country and the men and women who are willing to fight and die for it. How DARE you compare them to Nazis. Its damn well relevant if someone serves in the military. They are willing to fight and die for you to do what you aren’t MAN enough to do. You talked in circles about the Korean War and Vietnam war that’s not the point and you know it. Our soldiers were willing to fight and die for their country right or wrong. You shut your damn stupid mouth and thank them for what they did and honor their memory. You turd how dare you say Nazi’s are better then American Soldiers. Any soldier who died for our country is a better person dead then you are living.
    Oh by the way Gray one I haven’t forgotten you. Let me tell you something mister about “patriotic duty”. You say its your duty to mock. Well if being a stupid ass is patriotic duty you are Audie Murphy! Its your duty to love our country right or wrong and support our soldiers. Love them for what they do. That is your duty to this great nation and our great troops.

  23. G

    Old Soldier, our soldiers were Nazis when they help supported right-wing juntas in Central and South America, Asia, and Africa, suppressing American workers for much of the 20th century-plus wiping out the Native Americans.

    Again your remark about servicing in the military is irrelevant and you are talking in circles regarding it. You are also talking in circles about fighting Communism in South Vietnam and South Korea while ignoring the right-wing dictatorship in those countries and you know it or should know it by now.

    Not all soldiers were willing to die in Vietnam because their officers and NCOs didn’t care about them and only use them to advance their careers. Remember the words “ticket punching?” Also, remember the phrase used in Vietnam by the enlisted soldiers: We are the unwilling… led by the unqualified…to do the unnecessary… for the ungrateful. Thanks to military careerism, the armed forces were a bloody shambles after the Vietnam War had ended.

    I will not shut my mouth and do not have to thank them since many of them illegally spied on American civilians during much of the 20th century thus violating the civil rights that they have “supposedly”: fought for plus helping to send the jobs overseas, busting up unions and voting their own economic interests plus selling out the future of their kids and grandkids.

    The Germans were better soldiers and any World War II American soldier who fought them can attest to that fact.

    “Any soldier who died for our country is a better person dead then you are living.”

    Don’t see how a soldier person can be a better person than me when he/she is dead.

    “Its your duty to love our country right or wrong and support our soldiers. Love them for what they do. That is your duty to this great nation and our great troops”

    Then we should not be so critical of the Germans loving their country right or wrong during the First and Second World War.

  24. Grey One talks sass

    “Audrey Murphy”!?!?!!!!!!!!

    I must be moving up in the world.

    (Wanders off to make raisin toast)

  25. OldSoldier

    G
    Any soldier who died for our country is a better person dead then you are living.”
    Don’t see how a soldier person can be a better person than me when he/she is dead.
    Given how stupid you are I can see why you don’t see
    Your a tasteless classless human being who badmouths young men and women who fought for our freedom all over the world and died for all of us or who came home maimed. Your foul words make me so angry my hands are shaking as I type
    People like you make me sick!

  26. OldSoldier

    Grey one talks sass I don’t want you to think I have forgotten you. You talk about its your patriotic duty to mock. Let me make some suggestions about some other things you could do that are patriotic. Go visit a veterans cemetary and bow your head to show respect, go visit a veterans hospital and talk to the patients like I have done. Bring them things like cookies, books, toilet articles or just let them know you care and thank them. Why don’t you give some money to Wounded Warriors or other organizations that help our warriors who gave so much. BUT NO I’m just wasting my time with you. You are just going to make some sarcastic remark when you reply aren’t you? I think you are beyond hope.

  27. Grey One talks sass

    OldSoldier- and here I thought you were the one beyond hope.

    You don’t know what I’ve done for Veterans because you don’t see me, you see how you want to see me. Because I mock your religion and personal philosophy you assume I hold nothing sacred.

    Perhaps you need to do some deep self reflecting because all I see in you now is a pompous theocratic zealot who won’t stop until they force everyone to believe exactly as they do. Not a good look, just saying.

    I’ll stick with mocking. It’s a change from cleaning vomit, blood, and poop; all symptoms of cancer. Yes, I too know a few things about Superior Officers who did not disclose what poisons our warriors had to slog through.

    Pompous. Yep. That’s how I think of you now.

  28. G

    Old Soldier, I will say it again, don’t see how a dead soldier can be better than me when he/she is dead and not alive to prove that he/she is better than me. You have no proof that those dead people are better than me. Did you actually meet every one of those dead people in order to find out if they are better than me? The answer is no.

    Again many our people died for nothing and the only people who profit off their “sacrifices” are the wealthy people, the CEOs, and the military people who are trading their years of services for six-figure incomes in the MiC.

    If you are sick, then I suggest that you see the doctor and considered yourself lucky to have some socialized medicine considering the fact that too many Americans are dying from the lack of affordable/free medical and dental care.

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