Liberty

Being involved in higher education, my interest was piqued when I saw an article about  the case recently heard at Liberty University.  Your organizations stance… and particularly the unprofessional communication of such… surely isn’t representative of my forbears ideology.  I come from a line of military members; a grandfather is interred at West Point (Heintz).  My other grandfather has a building named after him at Keesler AFB (Allee)  and a relative represents the Army in the Smithsonian (Allyn Capron).  I doubt that the military would have created leaders like these men had it been dominated  by individuals driven by social agendas.  Folks like you are part of the reason the rifts in our country are so deep. 

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

….kudos on your family’s military history, sport…..my family has a little bit as well….my dad was a distinguished graduate from Annapolis….Class of ’53….I am an Honor Graduate from the U.S. Air Force Academy Class (USAFA) of ’77….4 of my kids are also USAFA graduates (two of them in the class Class of 2004, 1 in 2007 and the other in 2010)….as is my brother-in-law (Class of 1976)….one of my kids just made Major in the USAF and is an Aircraft Commander pilot in the C-17…..we have over 140 years of combined active duty military service in my family which has been in every major combat engagement our country has been in since World War 1…..my nephew is an E-9 in the USMC…..my other nephew just got out of the USMC after 6 years of constant combat ops…that said, let me just say that your sanctimony, failed piety and arrogance are pretty pathetic….do you even know the FACTS at Liberty University….16 CURRENT and FORMER JAGs came to us at MRFF for help…..9 of them are CHRISTIANS, as you probably are I’ll bet?!….do your damn homework before you get in our faces again, brutha…..good night, jack….Mikey Weinstein….


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell

On Feb 27, 2020, at 1:15 AM, Mike wrote:

(name withheld),

Your mention of involvement in higher education puzzles me a bit, especially when you close your criticism with a derisive swipe at those “driven by social agendas.” May one assume you consider Liberty University an example of higher education? If so, must one also assume you don’t consider theirs to be a seriously driven social agenda?
 
From here it appears you define terms curiously.
 
I’m also unclear about the point you are making about your forbears ideology. Whatever it was, they ended up being military men. So? Many have such forbears and ideologies vary.
 
Your bottom line appears to be your personal unhappiness with the MRFF’s opposition to a branch of the U.S. military choosing to hold a legal hearing at an institution dedicated to a Christian interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. May one assume you’re unfamiliar with the legal concept of the separation of church and state?
 
Do you find a commitment to the defense of our First Amendment a social agenda?
 
Odd.
 
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Feb 27, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Martin France wrote:

Dear (name withheld),

I occasionally answer emails sent to Mikey as part of my role on the MRFF Advisory Board.  I hope you don’t mind if I respond to yours while Mikey is traveling…

You comment that military can’t create leaders if it is concerned with social issues seems somewhat strange to me.  Had the military, its members, and our military and civilian leaders not been concerned with a “social agenda” then we would still have a segregated service and leaders like Bennie Davis, Colin Powell, and others would not have been able to serve lead and inspire.  The same could be said for the women now allowed to serve in career fields previously closed to them.  Also, should we still have mandatory church service for all of our members, or can we agree that that was a gross violations of service members’ rights?  We only recently allowed LGB and some T&Q members to serve openly in the military, so there’s still room to grow and learn.  In supporting and defending the Constitution–an oath that those of us who served took seriously (and many times)–we see an obligation to point out when the Constitution is NOT being followed, when biases that are anathema to the document are tolerated, be they racial, religious, etc.

The “social agenda” we see with the conflation of a real military court-proceeding being conducted on the campus of a private, religious institution should be obvious to most, but let me explain…  The location of any trial or proceeding should provide all sides with a sense of fairness and an absence of bias.  That’s simply impossible at a school that is based on all things fundamentalist Christian.  Let’s say I was charged with illegal use of alcohol.  Would it be appropriate to move the venue of my trial from where it occurred to a “dry” county in Alabama and then held in the conference room of the local temperance league?  Moreover, holding the proceeding at Liberty Univ might violate the establishment clause of the Constitution by implying a government endorsement of Liberty’s religious perspective, leading some to believe that the Air Force and Liberty have some official relationship.

Additionally, your military experience (or that of your family’s I should say, if you’ve been nothing but a spectator) may provide prospective, but it does not add substance.  One doesn’t need military experience to read, understand, appreciate, and support our Constitution and the values is documents.

Sincerely,

M France
Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)
MRFF Advisory Board Member


 

 

 

 

 

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8 Comments

  1. SARSU

    Well Mikey, I will see your military family history and raise you mine. Shall we start with Capt. Rownd, surgeon with the Worcester County, MD militia in the American Revolutionary War. 1st. Lt. John Rownd, 92nd Reg. Ohio Volunteer Infantry in the Union army during the Civil War which was part of Gen. Sherman’s army known for his March to the Sea and the sacking of Atlanta. Then there is my father, ground crew for a Marine fighter squadron on Guadalcanal Island during WWII. His brother my uncle also served in the Marines in WWII, retired as a Lt. Col. My other uncle, bombardier on B-24’s in the Pacific during WWII. My brother and cousin, Marines who served in Vietnam. My deceased step-father, served with the Army during WWII in Europe. My brother-in-law served in the Army and fought in the Korean War. Finally, my great nephew is in the Air Force now, graduated in the top 10 of his boot camp and first in his class in translation school.

    So, my ancestors and relatives have seen more combat than yours, so I would shut up I were you!

  2. SARSU

    Hey Mike Farrell,
    Yes Liberty University is a college of higher education. They are regionally accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission of Colleges, the same accrediting agency that the Univ. of Virginia, Duke University, Univ. of North Carolina, Clemson Univ., Univ of Tenn, Univ of Texas at Austin, Baylor Univ. and many others in that area are accredited by. Their law school is also accredited by the ABA which also accredits Harvard, Yale, Duke Law schools etc. Their seminary is accredited by the ATS, Assoc. of Theological Schools which also accredits Duke Univ. School of Divinity, Princeton Sem., Yale School of Div, Harvard School of Div., Notre Dame Seminary. Their School of Osteopathic Medicine is accredited by the American Osteopathic Association’s Commission.

    So Mike Farrell, what kind of higher education do you have? Oh that is right, you don’t, your bio says that your highest educational achievement was from Hollywood High School. I hold an associates, bachelors and masters degree from regionally accredited colleges and universities. So, Mike, if I were you, I would be quite about higher education until you have done your homework.

  3. Grey One talks sass

    So…. If the measuring of genetalia is done…

    What other school has had the honor of holding a trail, just like Liberty?

    This isn’t rocket science. Per our laws of the highest order everyone participates or no one does.

    By the way I’ve always believed it matters not what my ancestors did if I fail to be the best human I can be. Pedigree is good to know but what counts is how I behave in the here/now.

    In my opinion SARSU, you appear to be all hat and no cattle.

    Where are your demands for inclusion? Where is your insistence for fairness? Where is your honor human?

  4. SARSU

    Grey One,
    I do not believe in inclusion because God is not inclusive nor is He fair. If God was fair we all would be dead by now.

  5. RC

    SARSU,

    You have major issues. I suggest you get help.

    What does the fact that your family has more time spent in the military than Mr. Weinstein prove?

    NOTHING!

    You insult the integrity and honor of the uniform by besmirching a fellow soldier, and spit on everything the US Military is supposed to stand for.

    And guess what, one of the founding pillars of this country is inclusion. So you are therefor admitting that you don’t believe in one of the core things that define the United States of America. That makes you a pretty piss poor American. >_>

  6. KAYTHEGARDENER

    Would one hold a divorce hearing in a Catholic cathedral, just because it could hold more people than the local courthouse??
    Obviously not!!
    The RCC’ s upholding of the inviolability of marriage is well known, which might lead to perceptions of implied bias against the proceedings or the plaintiff …

  7. G

    SARSU

    You think that your family has combat experience that gives you and them any special exceptions and privileges. The answer is no. I have more respect for labor union activists and striking workers in the 19th and 20th centuries who had to face private and public sector police, the National Guard, and the Regular US Army when they wanted better living and working conditions, and higher pay and they had little or no firepower compare to what the opponents that I had just mention.

    You think that just because you have all those degrees make you better or smarter than the rest of society? In the last 39 years, people who have those degrees like you have been sending jobs overseas, creating poverty-stricken wages, giving people no affordable healthcare/education, no good-paying, full-time permanent jobs, raising the prices of goods and services with no increase wages, not paying individual taxes as well as the taxes of the companies they run, busting up unions, preventing people from organizing, using the government to advance their own agenda at the expense of the rest of society, hiring legal and illegal workers in order to displace the American worker, etc for nearly the last 40 years. They couldn’t or wouldn’t know how to run an honest business.

    “If God was fair we all would be dead by now.”

    Your remark doesn’t make any sense. If God was fair, people wouldn’t be dropping out of the church because too many of them for various reasons have come to the conclusion that God doesn’t exist or if he exists, he is not doing his job properly so he is not all-powerful as people claim that he is.

  8. GRA

    @ G: “come to the conclusion that God doesn’t exist or if he exists, he is not doing his job properly so he is not all-powerful as people claim that he is.”

    Ironic, this remark doesn’t make any sense. It’s an outright misunderstanding of “all powerful” and the ‘job’ of God.

    @ KAY: “The RCC’ s upholding of the inviolability of marriage is well known”

    This is false. Catholic marriages can be dissolved on certain grounds via annulment.

    This is site’s amusing, as is Mikey, a geezer at 80 still complaining about Christianity and its influences.

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