Ad. Board Member Marty France, Board Member John Compere, MRFF Founder Mikey Weinstein, and ally respond to “Hey” email from detractor

Published On: December 5, 2021|Categories: MRFF's Inbox, Top News|4 Comments|
Headshot of MRFF Advisory Board Member Marin France

From: (name withheld)
Date: December 5, 2021 at 1:47:21 PM MST
To:[email protected]
Subject:Hey

You’re a fucking idiot. Seems like wreaths are another good reason to divide people. I guess nothing nice can ever be done to make people feel good. As a combat veteran, if I fell in a foreign land it would have been nice for a complete stranger to spend the time and money to remember me at this time of year. But no, your lame ass has a problem with it. You’re a disgrace. Fuck You!  I’ll make sure to continue to support wreath laying on our hero’s graves. I guess we still have the first amendment, huh?

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]>
Subject: Hey
Date: December 5, 2021 at 2:22:43 PM MST
To: (name withheld)

….let me guess; “B M” stands for “Bowel Movement”, eh little sport?…..maybe try to see this matter NOT through the ignorant eyes of your unearned Christian privilege, chump….Mikey W.


On Dec 5, 2021, at 2:35 PM, (name withheld) wrote:


Amber Caron, spokeswoman for the Maine-headquartered Wreaths Across America, said the wreaths, each hand made of 10 boughs of balsam tied with a red velveteen bow, are veterans’ wreaths, not Christmas wreaths.

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Hey
Date: December 5, 2021 at 2:39:15 PM MST
To: (name withheld)

…first off, the word you tried to spell below is “heroes’ ” not “hero’s”, little feather…we are coming out with a news story tomorrow AM which will show the total lies and bullshit of WAA…they KNOW these are “Christmas wreaths”…..THEY ARE LYING!!!!!!


On Dec 5, 2021, at 2:48 PM, (name withheld) wrote:


I suppose anytime, anyone does anything nice there are douche bags like you who find a reason to complain. No wonder we have so much division in this country. Every institution that many of us grew up with is under attack. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Independence Day or you name it some left wing dude like you has a problem with it. I guess we should hate and hate and hate like you espouse, then we can all be miserable all the time like you are. Obviously I’m not a very religious person by the wording I use in my emails but I do see people doing nice things for others. So again, Fuck You and Merry Christmas!!!

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]>
Subject: Hey
Date: December 5, 2021 at 2:57:30 PM MST
To: (name withheld)

….hey, jack, I get the obvious fact that you’re not too bright……you can’t seem to understand, comprehend or empathize how having a clearly sectarian Christian Christmas device placed on your veteran loved ones’ grave WITHOUT the families’ express prior approval would be viewed as FREAKING abominable!!….not my job to make up for your TOTAL lack of quality education, fool……..I’d suggest trying to keep an open mind….but the only thing “open” about you is your ignorant mouth…and as for your “mind”, not seeing that you have one at all….Happy Hanukkah, tiny creampuff……(please don’t give up on getting that GED!!…..I’m counting on you!!!!)   :)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 5, 2021, at 2:53 PM, Martin France wrote:


Dear (name withheld),Thank you so much for your note.  I appreciate your flawless logic, deep sense of respect, and understanding during the holiday season.  So refreshing and unifying compared to the usual drivel and hatred we see.  I’m on the MRFF Advisory Board and occasionally respond to emails such as yours.  I, too, am a veteran, so I appreciate your service, too.  Thanks!To your point about how it would be “nice for a complete stranger to spend the time and money to remember me at this time of year” to decorate your grave after you had passed, I have a couple of quick questions.Are you open to ANY means of remembering you by decorating your grave?  By that I mean, is there anything that I could put on your grave that you or your survivors would find inappropriate or insulting?  From your words, I’d guess that your answer is “no.”  So, you would be okay with me putting an little black ISIS or green Muslim flag on your grave.  That’s very open-minded.  How about a menorah for Hannukah?  Maybe a Confederate Flag from the Daughters of the Confederacy?  May my dog leave a decoration?  I’m a supporter of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and would like to honor you someday by putting freshly boiled (al dente, of course!) spaghetti on your grave.  Please have your next of kin contact me with the location of your grave and I’ll be looking forward to it!  Can my Hindu friends put marigolds on your grave for Dawali (look it up).  Maybe your friends in the KKK can put a white hood over your gravestone!  All things are possible!Sure these are all hypotheticals and unlikely to occur, but the point I’m trying to make is that your grave is sacred.  Your survivors and those that love you should have absolute control over how your grave is decorated and how you are remembered–especially your grave is on federal property.  You should not have to “opt out” of a group of people who think they are “do-gooders,” but you’re welcome to opt-in if you’d like.  Remember, it is you (if you have some pre-death instructions) and/or your family who decide on your headstone.  Does it have a cross?  A crescent? Nothing?  Does it list your top medals?  Rank?  Service?  Branch?  YOU and your survivors should make all of those decisions–as well as how you are remembered and your grave is decorated.Yes, we still have a first amendment.  What we don’t have is the right to just PRESUME that a dead soldier and his or her survivors want some random group to decorate their grave as this random group sees fit–without consulting the family.  Doing so, in my mind, isn’t free speech, but vandalism.  We’re not all Christians and we don’t all celebrate Christmas.  (It’s true, trust me on this)I served on active duty for 37-plus years and in uniform for over 41.  My family and I know where my remains will be buried and I’ve made damn sure they know how my headstone will read and that I don’t want anyone “decorating” my grave with anything but an American flag, some flowers, and maybe a few challenge coins or mementoes, a couple of pebbles, maybe a bicycle sprocket.  I do not want anyone who didn’t know me personally putting anything religious on my grave and hope my survivors file formal complaints if anyone does.  I sure don’t want one of those gaudy WAA wreaths–especially since all of the profits go to the Maine Wreath Co folks that founded this “charity” and make about $25M a year from it.  I’d rather that $25M go to the Wounded Warrior Fund or some similar veteran-supporting charity than to a million mulch circles that will have to be collected and trashed after New Year’s!
That you feel differently than me is okay–I respect your right to do so.  Please respect the rights of all others to disagree–because we still have a first amendment.

Sincerely

,Marty France Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)

MRFF Advisory Board Member


On Sun, Dec 5, 2021, 15:06 (name withheld) wrote:
Sir,
I think there is a huge difference between an ISIS flag and a wreath. I believe everyone should be able to worship or not as they like. I guess your folks are right, I see the error in my thinking. I guess we shouldn’t “try” to do anything nice because someone will most likely be offended. Some people are just haters. I’m gonna stop my hating now. There are games to watch. 
Thank you for your service as well.  And I do apologize for my nasty language. 

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 5, 2021, at 3:14 PM, Martin France wrote:


(name withheld), thanks for the response. I’m retired, so you can call me Marty. My point is that, while I know that almost all think that what they’re doing is “nice” and their intentions may seem innocent, they still shouldn’t just presume that their actions are appropriate or appreciated. Jewish families may not want a Christmas wreath. Neither might Muslims, Hindus or Atheists. If WAA wants to help people honor the fallen, then they should first make sure that the survivors of the fallen want their brand of symbolic honor.And thanks again for the response.Have a Superb Solstice!

Marty


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Dec 5, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Martin France wrote:

And I agree with you “hate” comment, too. Good call. I’m on my way to my son’s brewery now for a special dinner (I’m a lucky guy). He’s former Marine infantry who served in Iraq.You’re right about people feeling offended, too. But one thing I like to do (and sometimes overlook) is to ask myself, “Would I like it if others assumed something similar (or opposite) about me?” Kinda like a Golden Rule thing. If so, then I’ll think twice or three times and maybe not do it.

Cheers, M


Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 5, 2021, at 6:02 PM, John Compere wrote:

Your half-witted hate-mail reflects only on yourself & reveals only your foul-mouthed foolishness, moronic malevolence & inexplicable ignorance.

It obviously has not occurred to you that some families of deceased military veterans do not want a religious organization promoting its religion version & marketing its religious organization by presumptuously putting its religious symbol on the graves of their loved ones without permission. Those families considerate it to be an uninvited intrusion on the personal burial site of their deceased family member.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation represents, when requested, the religious freedom right of those families to object to such thoughtless trespassing on & disrespectful desecration of the graves of their deceased American military veterans. We do so because we support & respect the wishes of those military families. It obviously has also not occurred to you that hypocritical hate-filled messages such as yours only encourage us to continue to assist them.”Hate ultimately harms only the hater” – SOCRATES

Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (composed of 85% Christians)


From: (name withheld)

General,
 If I offended you,  I do apologize. Some of us are passionate in our own views too. I should not have spoke like I did.

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere

On Dec 5, 2021, at 7:01 PM, John Compere wrote:

Thank you for this response & for your military service.


On Dec 5, 2021, at 3:51 PM, B M (name withheld) wrote:

Mikey,
Unfortunately I didn’t attend a service academy so my spelling is obviously not on par with an “elitist” like yourself. I guess the Army needed dumb people too. I suspect that the vast majority of those folks who are buried in those cemeteries are more like me, than you. My father served in WWII (Navy), Korea and Vietnam (Army) and he had an 8th grade education. Not all of us can be as smart as you. 

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

On Dec 5, 2021, at 16:21, Mikey Weinstein wrote:

My father enlisted in the Navy and served for three years before he made it to the Naval Academy… He also served as a World War II Korea and Vietnam veteran… He is buried in a national veteran cemetery about 45 minutes from my house… He would NEVER want a Christmas wreath planted on his grave… 16 weeks after we buried him there in 2017 some freaking asshole put an Easter cross on his grave… It was a headline story in our media out here… We will never let that happen again… So you tell me, whatever your name is, who exactly is the “elitist“ here… Don’t expect a badge of courage because your education is not as high as mine or my dad’s or millions of others… That’s up to you…  I don’t assign respect to somebody simply because they have college degrees… Some of the most heroic people I know in this world do not have such degrees… Take your imperious arrogance and shove it you know where… I’m waiting to hear an apology from you for the filthy language that came out of your mouth to start this text jack


On Dec 5, 2021, at 5:19 PM, (name withheld) wrote:

I did apologize. Maybe you should read the other threads that I sent. I really don’t care what you (elitist/snob) think about my education because that is not what this is about. Who corrects someone else’s spelling in an emailsent from a phone?  It’s about remembering those who died for this country. I do not believe that the wreath reflects a religious tone. I think it’s done by nice people doing something nice. As much as you are entitled to your opinions I too am entitled to mine. I love this country and I fought for it, my father fought for it, both of my brothers fought for it. So in my “imperious arrogance”, it is my right. I can express my feelings on the matter just like you. What about flag burning?  Some say that’s ok because our founding fathers were racist. If I disagree with those loons that makes me a racist too. I do know that this country used to be a lot better before everyone wanted to change it. Can’t watch, read or talk to someone without someone complaining about religion, race, politics or the litany of causes that trigger each other.  I truly believe this is still ( not for long, maybe) the best place in the world. I guess your answer is that no one, ever does anything for anyone, for fear of offending someone. When I die you can put a menorah or Kufi or spaghetti on my grave and at least you were thinking about me and my service.  Or you can doing nothing, I’m good with that too. 
 My father’s name was Jack and my first son’s name is Jack too. 
I’m (name withheld) 
Give me a break, it’s a wreath, not a baptism. 


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

On Dec 5, 2021, at 17:36, Mikey Weinstein wrote:

I read where you apologized to our advisory board member general France… But you started this out directly to me and you have not apologized to me yet… You don’t seem to understand that others who do not share your religious faith or perhaps your skin color or your sexual orientation or anything else may view the world differently than you… Maybe we got off on the wrong foot here (name withheld)… But it was you who cast the first stone brother… That’s why I want an apology to me and not to others…


On Dec 5, 2021, at 6:06 PM, (name withheld) wrote:

I did apologize to you. You obviously double teamed me so I assumed, correctly that you both saw what I was writing. I apologize to you for the language that I used. I’m not trying to push any religion here.  I’m just saying that laying a wreath on a service members grave is a nice gesture. Not everything has a double meaning or ulterior motive. Obviously no conversion will take place for the person buried there. Maybe if we were more tolerant and less triggered this may be a better world. You really can’t tell me that someone taking their time to do something like this makes this a worse country. Maybe we need more nice gestures. Don’t you get tired of seeing schools and malls and peoples homes getting shot up?  Out of control homelessness, drug addiction and poverty?  Maybe a wreath on a fallen grave isn’t the worst thing. 
Things used to be better and I don’t think a wreath is the problem. It’s the heart. 

(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

On Dec 5, 2021, at 18:18, Mikey Weinstein wrote:

(name withheld) you simply can’t get it?… I don’t think you’re trying very hard… I told you that that wreath is a Christian symbol… Even the company itself admits it… Wait until our story comes out tomorrow… Many people who are not Christians do not want a Christian symbol like that placed on their loved ones graves… What are so damn hard for you to understand about this brother?… you seem to exemplify the term known as “white privilege“… You see, (name withheld), fish in an aquarium never see the water either… If someone put a symbol like that on my father‘s grave I would press criminal charges and sue them civilly as well…


On Dec 5, 2021, at 18:32, (name withheld) wrote:

There we go, we’ve made it full circle. I was waiting to be labeled a racist. I’m out, I’d try and say something polite but I’m sure someone on this email thread would be offended. I just wish AT&T would be as good as you guys are at emails. 
Have a nice night 


On Dec 5, 2021, at 6:39 PM, (name withheld) wrote:

Again I’m apologize for the salty language. I’m better than that and you don’t deserve it. Everyone’s opinion matters even if you don’t like what they have to say. 


Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein
Subject: Re: Hey
Date: December 5, 2021 at 6:47:21 PM MST
To: (name withheld)

Apology accepted… and thank you… I’m just trying to get you to understand why the families  of veterans who aren’t Christian would object to a clearly Christian wreath which the company that makes them clearly admits is Christian and not just a regular plain old non-religious wreath……


Response from MRFF Supporter Steve Dundas

On Dec 5, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Steve wrote:


Dear (name withheld). 
I read the string of emails that you sent my associate Mr. Weinstein. I have to admit that you have a way with words and I have to commend your ceaseless perseverance in attacking Mr. Weinstein and General France. My goodness the way that you use “fuck” is so unimaginative, I served with soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen without college degrees and some who never finished high school who were much more creative than you. It doesn’t take a college degree to be smart, or to be creative in the use of the word fuck in all its forms or other terms of worldly endearment or derision. my lord, I had a Marine First Sergeant who could use fuck in its various forms as a noun, verb, adjective, and adverb, and the combine it with sonofabitch, asshole, shithead, 
But you seem to take pride in your stupidity and willful ignorance. Why would you not want to improve yourself and your education and you don’t even need to go to school to do that. Read, learn, and listen to others, even with people that you disagree before you send out shotgun blasts at people you do not know over laws and rights that you don’t understand.
At least you didn’t use your real name, or an email address that can be easily traced. This looks like a new one and since you are responding it is not a fake email address, but your initials are a hoot. Are they you actual initials or are you just trying to be clever? But, (name withheld)., my God that is good. I have one or more of those a day, and nothing more satisfying than a good B.M. It’s a primal thing that even you might understand.
On the other hand you seem to be very angry at people better educated than you. You call Mikey part of the “elite”, I am sure that you consider people like General France and me part of that same mythological “elite”, but but none of us give a hoot in hell where someone went to college or even if they did. We value competence, integrity, honor, and intelligence, which has nothing to do with formal education. My God, Abraham Lincoln, Mark Twain, and Frederick Douglass didn’t have academic elite pedigrees but all were learned men.
You say that you served in the Army like that is some less elite part of the military. I have no idea when you served, but I spent near 40 years in the military, 17 and 1/2 of which were in the Army as enlisted and officer. Another 21 and a 1/4 were spent in the Navy with 7 of those serving with the Marines. I don’t consider myself an elite, just someone who worked hard and continued to learn despite not having any advantage but my mind. Navy brat, frequent moves, public schools, junior college, state universities and the military, finally seminary, a poverty stricken hospital residency, and finally a second masters degree in military history, and high level military schooling that I accomplished while busting my ass in operational assignments. That is simply hard work and sacrifice, and plenty of the people that your deride as elites simply work hard and overcome obstacles to get where they are today.
You sound like a whiner, someone that would rather bitch about people who work their asses off to serve the country, defend the Constitution, and help our people, even if people like you hate them for it.
Your emails show that you have an absurdly low opinion of yourself, that you are intellectually lazy, and need to try to drag others to your pathetic level. Get a life. Start reading Mark Twain and Abraham Lincoln, then move on to others. You might actually learn something. Learn how to speak and write the English language so you don’t look like a fool, and you can even do that using profanity, something you seem all to well acquainted with, despite not doing it very well. You could learn a lot from that Marine First Sergeant, or any of the Marine or Army Staff NCOs, First Sergeants, Sergeants Major, or Navy Chiefs or Petty Officers that I served alongside.
You could learn a lot from the fictional Sergeant Buster Killrain of Michael Sahara’s great novel and the film Gettysburg. He tells his Colonel, the legendary hero Joshua Chamberlain:
“Colonel, darling, you’re a lovely man. I see a great vast difference between us, yet I admire you, lad. You’re an idealist, praise be. The truth is, Colonel, there is no “divine spark.” There’s many a man alive no more of value than a dead dog. Believe me. When you’ve seen them hang each other the way I have back in the Old Country. Equality? What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many of them. Where have you seen this “divine spark” in operation, Colonel? Where have you noted this magnificent equality? No two things on earth are equal or have an equal chance. Not a leaf, not a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters, Colonel, is justice. Which is why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve. Not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I damn all gentlemen. There is only one aristocracy, and that is right here. [taps his temple] And that’s why we’ve got to win this war.”
The only aristocracy and elite is inside a person’s brain. What Mr. Weinstein and all of us at MRFF seek is justice and the right of people to have an equal chance, and that is endanger by the religious intolerance of people imposing their religion on those who served this country of every faith, or no faith at all, even when they are dead. I am a Christian, a retired Navy Chaplain, and semi-retired Priest, and I will be damned if anyone places a wreath on my grave without my permission or that of my family. One can call these wreaths whatever they want but that does not take away the fact that in this country they have become a symbol of the myth of Christian supremacy and the damnation of non-Christians.
You claim to have served in the Army, but if so when? Did you serve in combat, or did you just shovel shit in Louisiana? We’re your ASVAB scores so low that you got a into a crappy MOS and served in combat service support units where you were treated badly? You don’t talk about any accomplishments as a soldier, so I presume that your service didn’t end well. If not tell the truth. Say who you are, when and where you served, what you did and how your service was characterized in your discharge. This is your chance to shine. If you get all defensive and tell me to “fuck off” I will assume that you are a poser who couldn’t hack it in the Army, and either never served, got kicked out, or even if you were honorably discharged did nothing to distinguish yourself. 
So put up or shut up. From what you say in this email thread I can only assume what I have written is true. Prove me wrong. Honestly, I don’t mind being wrong if the truth is told. The question is, do you have the courage and integrity to tell the truth? Or are you just another crank, power, and whiner? 
So what is it? Speak now, or forever hold your peace. 
Sincerely,
Fr. Steve Dundas, CDR, CHC USN, (retired) 


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4 Comments

  1. Grey One Talks Sass December 5, 2021 at 11:14 pm

    Maybe it’s the season and my admiration for soppy ‘my eyes were opened and my heart grew seven sizes in one night’ movies. Maybe it’s because I really want humanity to discover empathy (the ability to put themselves in another’s place). Either way, I appreciate the exchange above.

    Perhaps the letter writer will use their best weapon (their mind) before assuming all of humanity is the same in the future. An old one can have hope this time of year.

    As I’m reminded often, perspectives matter.

    “What is catastrophic for the fly is supper to the spider” (paraphrased) Morticia Adams

  2. A.L. Hern December 6, 2021 at 8:18 pm

    It’s common Jewish tradition to leave a small stone on a Jewish grave.  That’s it, just a common pebble.

    If the folks at Worcester Wreath Co. want to honor that tradition, it will be appreciated and, while they don’t deal in pebbles, finding some to place on Jewish graves will cost them exactly nothing.

    No one, including Mikey Weinstein and the MRFF, objects to their laying wreaths on Christian graves, but Jewish ones should be left to those who know how to honor Jewish dead, aren’t trying to convert them to Christianity posthumously and who aren’t using nakedly transparent demonstrations of fake piety to buy an express ticket to heaven for themselves when their time’s up.

  3. Thom Williams December 7, 2021 at 12:02 am

    🆗🦄
    I respect the MRFF for its stand against the unsolicited for profit wreath planting on any grave of any military veteran, wherever they are interred. The eMail thread was an interesting read, especially the strange irony that “name withheld” could not seem to grasp that his anonymous stand personified both the weakness and putridity of his position.
    Kudos to Mr. Weinstein and everyone else who valiantly tried to untar and feather this sad and surreal situation.👍
    As Usual,
    Thom Williams (aka Ethan Allen)😎

  4. lightenup December 14, 2021 at 2:23 pm

    Is MRFF worried about evangelizing the dead? What is the motivation for MRFF strident attacks on waa? I can see if there are families that are concerned for the wreath laying that they may bring a concern to the cemetery where the loved one rests or contact waa to tell them not to do it again or have it removed. But your group is looking an affront where is seems that none was meant. Have families of the departed contact MRFF to assist them with their concerns? If so would it not just be done better by having some of your folks follow on behind the waa wreath layers and remove those that have been so maliciously placed? Honoring dead soldiers graves has a long tradition throughout the world and time.

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