Christian MRFF Supporter Offers Refreshing Perspective

On Mar 19, 2018, at 9:44 AM, (name withheld) wrote:

The fundamental problem I have with presenting any particular religious tenets as a good management practice in a US military training class (other than the fact that it clearly violates our Constitution) is that it dismisses the number one teaching of that religion. For Christianity that #1 tenet is that He is God, your creator and you should obey His word because as the creator He is entitled to make the rules. I have not studied the Eastern religions but it seems logical that the first teaching of any religion is “this is the truth and you should follow this teaching of this person/god/spirit”.

To ignore that basic principle violates that particular religion that is being used as an example of good management practices for work place etiquette. One’s religion is the overriding factor in one’s behavior. The work place is a gathering place for people of diverse backgrounds and possibly many religions. Therefore, the social rules should be based on the political authority and logic. We are so blessed in the USA to have the Bill of Rights that guarantees our rights particularly in this important area of our lives.

So why don’t we just cling to that principle and stop besmirching the name of Jesus in the US military by obeying the laws of the land and His teaching of obedience to the laws of the land except only in the case where those two are in conflict.

To those who would say the commandment to make disciples overrides the political laws, I say read Paul’s letters. He clearly taught that to the Jews, he was a Jew and to the Romans he was a Roman. He established a personal relationship first and taught by words and the example his actions. He blended and let them see what Christianity looked like instead of insisting that they change their thinking. We can’t give Paul all the credit. Surviving that snake bite, multiple beatings and an earthquake were real attention getters.

I would like all those zealots who are quick to violate Constitutional law and their own oath to support, protect and defend that constitution by requiring subordinates to learn and even follow their personal choice of religious faith to consider their own beliefs. If the being whom one worships and acknowledges as supreme really is supreme, he doesn’t need a mere mortal to accomplish his goal. Does God really need any army? Man gives himself way too much credit!

Thanks for the support you give our military and our Constitution.

(name withheld)

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21 Comments

  1. Mikeys Mouse

    To this Christian supporter, I would say you are wrong, God’s Word always overrides political authority when the two are in conflict, but the command to make disciples is not limited by the Constitution. In the original Greek, the verse says in your goings to make disciples, meaning, everywhere you go and in everything you do, you are to make disciples.
    “If the being whom one worships and acknowledges as supreme really is supreme, he doesn’t need a mere mortal to accomplish his goal.” God does not need us but He chooses to use us to carry out His will hear on earth.

    God before country and God, Corps, Country

  2. Mark Sebree

    MM,

    As usual, you have everything backwards to reality. In the USA, “political authority” most certainly overrides whatever you believe that your religion says or requires. Nobody is beholden to your religious beliefs except you. Federal law, military regulations, and the UCMJ all prohibit proselytizing to the troops by ranking officers and NCOs. Additionally, every enlisted and officer in the military swears an oath to defend the CONSTITUTION against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. That includes people like you who want to trash the Constitution and turn this country into a theonomy or theocracy.

    In the military, it is ALWAYS Country before your service, and your service before whatever your personal deity is. In fact, your deity does not matter to anyone else at all, and religion ranks a distant third at best. More likely far lower on the scale after things like family and friends.

    Mikey, the MRFF, and this letter writer all have it right, and you, as usual, have it wrong.

  3. IDKYALL

    As a Jedi Knight, and friend to Capt Solo, I do not understand why people can’t put , , in this order if they choose to. The oath of office …support and defend the constitution …etc, doesn’t mean to me that I can’t put my deity first (my lightsaber) if I want to. In the AF, the Core Values are the Core Values and if members adhere to them why can’t they do all three, i.e. oath, core values and deity (not in any particular order)? IDKYALL, seems to me we make a big deal out of nothing in most cases. If someones deity makes them happy, who am I to say otherwise. NOW, you can keep that deity to yourself, I can care less if you worship the giant spaghetti monster or a fish, I don’t want to know

  4. IDKYALL

    Deity, service, county was missing from last post…doh!

  5. G

    MM must be a Marine because he put the USMC before the country. If it wasn’t for the USA be created, the USMC would have never existed.

  6. Mikeys Mouse

    MS,
    Who says I want to trash the Constitution, I believe in the 1st Amendment and the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms to protect myself from those who want to take away my gun, along with all the other amendments. I am no enemy to the United States except by those who want to take away my right to practice my religion and freedom of speech.

    Hate to disappoint you, but to any Christian or Messianic Jew, God or Christ always comes before, country, spouse, family, job, relatives, children and the laws of the land when they conflict with the Word of God!

  7. Mark Sebree

    MM,

    Your words say that you want to trash the Constitution. Your words in virtually every single post. If you are working for the US government, such as serving any any of the armed forces, then your religion MUST come after the country and your service. You do NOT have the right to impose your beliefs onto anyone else, especially your subordinates, no matter what your beleifs claim. You do NOT have the right to deny people of other religions their rights and their just due. You do NOT have the right to obstinately display your religion on your uniform or in your workspace (except for chaplains and chaplain’s aides). You do NOT have the right to show favoritism towards your religion or disparage other people’s religion or non-religion. You do NOT have the right to use your position in the federal government to promote your beliefs. Your personal opinion about what the “word” of your personal deity happens to be means absolutely nothing to anyone else, and secular law is superior in this country to your beliefs.

    Your posts have shown that you cannot accept those facts. You cannot accept that the law, the military, and this country cannot show any legal favoritism or disparagement towards any religion. You don’t care about the rights of others, especially when they do things that are within their rights that you do not care for, or they fight for equality that they are being denied because people like you think that their religious privilege overrides secular law. Your words have shown that you want your personal beliefs to have a privileged status under the law, and those that you do not agree with should be made second class citizens with diminished rights. In order to do that, you must trash the First Amendment, especially the Establishment Clause.

    The problem that you cannot face or understand is that if you do that, there is no guarantee that your personal beliefs would be the ones that are enshrined in the law. Your beliefs could also end up out of favor. You are the one that could end up as a second class citizen.

  8. Grey One talks sass

    IDKYALL, in the USA if deity is to be considered first whose deity gets to be the alpha deity? Mine? Yours? MM’s?

    Dominionists imagine their god is always first but even they argue over the details (how many Christian churches were started over disagreements about interpretation? Spoiler alert – it’s more than a few and all claim to be the One True Voice of God).

    The founding fathers arranged the First Ammendment the way they did for a reason. Eliminating the fight over who gets to be top god is most important in my mind.

  9. MAGAPatriot

    Well Grey One,
    There is only One true God, His name is Yahweh or Jehovah or Jesus Christ all one and the same. There are no other gods but Him. The God that the Jews and Christians worship is the One True God!
    Allah is Satan in disguise, the same with Buddah, Hari Krishna, etc. Jesus said that there is only one way to heaven, and that is only through Him and it is not by any good works a man can do.

  10. IDKYALL

    MAGAPatriot – if we (the world) accept your definition of the one true god, how do we know you are right? We have no evidence the christian god (or Jesus) is real, no more so than the giant spaghetti monster, the fish, the buddah, the allah or the hari krishna (I do have a lightsaber by the way). Why would we (the world) blindly accept the christian world view because you read a book and YOU say that someone else said (Jesus), but who are YOU to say? I can only assume you are magical and/or are attempting to push you personal agenda on the rest of us (the world) and thats just not something you have the authority nor power to do (well, maybe imaginary).

    I must agree with the original author that started this post, Man gives himself way too much credit! BTW – did you see that meteor expecting to wipe us out by 2135–the NASA gods say “don’t worry”, but they are “fake” gods :o)

  11. MAGAPatriot

    Well IDKYALL,
    Well, the world will only be destroyed when God destroys it. How do we know that Jesus is real, there are extra biblical records of Jesus existing, like the Jewish historian Josephus who wrote about Him. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died

    Even Jews today believe in the historicity of Jesus although they will not claim Him as their Messiah,

  12. MAGAPatriot

    IDKYALL,
    Check this out as well – https://crossexamined.org/72360-2/

  13. IDKYALL

    MAGAPatriot – A former detective turned Christian apologists and the so called “abundant historical references” that Jewish historian Josephus who wrote about it is not proof of the existence of a deity. Now, maybe a man named Jesus lived back then, but to imagine any hocus-pocus stuff happened is a what I would call a Jedi mind trick and no more real.

    It’s very odd this christian deity appeared when the people of the dark(er) ages thought the world was flat, burned the witches and tortured the non-believers, so until then, it’s just in the imagination of the beholder.

  14. G

    “Dominionists imagine their god is always first but even they argue over the details (how many Christian churches were started over disagreements about interpretation? Spoiler alert – it’s more than a few and all claim to be the One True Voice of God).”

    Well said considering all the religious wars that Christians had waged against each in Europe.

  15. Mark Sebree

    G,

    Not just Europe. In the Americas, Christians worked hard to exterminate all the existing religions and peoples. When they corralled Native Americans and forced them onto reservations, which were after overt and covert attempts to wipe them out using disease and war, Christians would not allow them to keep their own names or language. Christians would round up the children, put them into boarding schools, and allow only Christianity to be practiced or referenced. Central America and South America saw similar pograms against native languages.

    And when Europe colonized/conquered Africa, the natives were treated much the same way. The disease angle did not work as well, but the war certainly did.

  16. Grey One talks sass

    MAGAPatriot,

    Either your idea of deity is the only one or there are other deities. Which is it?

    In the Christian holy book there is evidence of the existence of other deities. Blew my mind when I was a kid as I was raised mainstream Christian and thought God and Jesus was it. But when your holy book, the one you MAGAPatriot like to shove in others face, is the source….

    Well, other deities do exist and I have the Christian holy book to thank for the reveal.

    (Stage whisper – of course I’ve evolved since that innocent time to beleive deities are created in the image of the humans who worship them. If we could refrain from ascribing a human/deity motivation for anything we don’t understand yet we may discover our gods to be nothing more than imprinted Dark Matter).

    The magic of yesterday is the science of tomorrow. Attributed to AC Clarke

  17. MAGAPatriot

    There are no other so called “dieties” in the Word of God, There is just Jehovah God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, any others would be fallen angels and Satan who are created beings and they are not eternal. They other so called “gods” in scripture are all referencing pagan beings made up by men.

  18. Grey One talks sass

    In your opinion you forgot to add MAGAPatriot aka MikeysMouse aka Dominionist talking point shill. Don’t make me get the book out and quote it to you. You will only look foolish.

    You like to say you defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Mark explained how misguided your words are. This post confirms his analysis. You are a theocrat, plain as the nose on your face.

    Nice thing about the good old USA is we are free from your beliefs just as you are free from mine. Enjoy the thought of an old hippy like me believing as I do. I sure enjoy knowing you occupy a section of history that is coming to a close.

  19. MAGAPatriot

    Hey Grey,
    Actually, the history is only leading up to the point where a Jewish Messiah (Jesus) will rule and reign the planet from His throne in Jerusalem, and all mankind that is alive, that may include you, will have to bow your knees to Him or face death for rebelling against the Son of God and His theocracy He will establish for all to obey. You may want to read this book that explains all – https://www.amazon.com/When-Jew-Rules-World-Really/dp/1938067711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522018299&sr=8-1&keywords=when+a+jew+rules+the+world

  20. IDKYALL

    Yes MAGAPatriot, people have been writing and “preaching” the end of the world, the second coming and non-believers burning in the lake of fire for years. Also to note the mega bucks preachers like John Hagee made by publishing books about the lies of blood moons as an omen of the coming of the end times.

    One of these days I hope people wake up and take a good look at this total bullshit and put their money in the bank for their retirement and also so no one else has to pay for their debts.

  21. Issy

    MAGAParrot

    “Actually, the history is only leading up to the point where a Jewish Messiah (Jesus) will rule and reign the planet from His throne in Jerusalem, and all mankind that is alive, that may include you, will have to bow your knees to Him or face death for rebelling against the Son of God and His theocracy He will establish for all to obey.”

    Sir or madam,

    What you are advocating is premeditated mass murder. Not one human being that is rational or sane advocates such a thing. If that’s what your god advocates, why do you choose to follow it when it has such twisted thinking? Because your religion is a choice, whether you think so or not. You can walk away and feel so much better about all you see around you. It’s not okay for your soul to live in such disharmony with all around you. Please, reconsider your stance. My family would really miss me if you killed me.

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