you ungrateful jerk

From: (name withheld)

Subject: you ungrateful jerk
Date: August 18, 2019 at 9:56:29 PM MDT

 

Weinstein you wouldn’t even be alive today if it weren’t for Christian soldiers who fought in WW2.
So why are you fighting that WW2 vets’ Bible on the POW Table in New Hampshire?
You’re existence is a insult to America and all of our military and veterans.
Your life is a insult to every Christian who has ever wore the uniform.Send back your Air Academy diploma. Your a total disgrace to our country. And to your religion too
(name withheld)


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere
On Aug 19, 2019, at 5:53 AM, John  wrote:
(name withheld),
 
Here are facts with which you are obviously not familiar:
 
Originated in 1967 by a group of our Vietnam War combat pilots, the River Rats, without religious scripture and continued thereafter by the American Legion without religious scripture, the POW/MIA display purpose was & is to leave a place at the dinner table for those military comrades and not forget them. It has always been about remembrance – not religion. Religious scriptures can be placed in hospital chapels for those who want to see them.
 
What is wrong with fundamentalist Christians putting their religious scripture version in the middle of non-religious POW/MIA dinner table displays to publicly proselytize their private religious beliefs?
 
It is wrong because it permits religious intrusion on non-religious remembrance displays and
 
(1) disobeys the Constitution 1st Amendment prohibiting our government from endorsing or promoting a religion & requiring government neutrality regarding religion (neither pro-religion nor anti-religion, but religion-neutral);
 
(2) distorts the non-religious remembrance tradition by imposing dominate religious scripture;
 
(3) distracts from memorial remembrance by promoting religion not shared by all POWs, MIAs or military veterans;
 
(4) disrespects millions of Americans who are not fundamentalists Christians; and
 
(5) disregards normal dinner table settings that do not include religious scripture prominently placed in the middle of them.
 
Surely you have better things to do with your life than send hateful emails to a fellow American you do not even know complaining about facts of which you display no knowledge.
 
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Advisory Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (over 80% Christians)

Response from MRFF Volunteer Sandra BXXXXXX
On Aug 18, 2019, at 10:35 PM, Sandra  wrote:
(name withheld),
Untrue.
Because it is unlawful and disgraceful to have a bible or religious document of any sort on a public secular memorial. Especially when that religion is what certain wacky people think is the country’s identity. How? We aren’t. We are a melting pot.
No, it isn’t. Mikey’s existence is a compliment to all vets to include himself. And his life is a compliment to every Christian who has ever wore the uniform. Don’t lie like that.
Don’t talk to him in that tone of voice. Don’t tell him what to do. You’re the disgrace. You and people like you. You don’t know his religion, so be quiet. You don’t know yours either, seeing how ignorant you are. What’s your point? Nevermind. I don’t want to know. You wasted enough of my time.
 
Sandra BXXXXXX
USAF Vet
MRFF Volunteer

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Aug 19, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Martin France  wrote:

 

Dear (name withheld),

Thanks so much for your thoughtful note to Mikey and the MRFF.  It will soon, I’m sure, take it’s place among so many erudite and insightful works of grammatical excellence published by Mikey’s spouse, Bonnie, in the eventual 3rd volume of letters from loving Christians. Note: her second volume is now a best-seller on Amazon — here’s a link. {hint – use your computer’s mouse and the left clicky thing to point at the underlined word “hint” and it will take you to the Deep State’s website whence you can buy the book and we can obtain all of your passwords, DNA, and have full and unfettered access to your “essence.”}
BTW, I’m a 35+ year retired veteran of the US Air Force and long-time MRFF advisor.  I sometimes (often for my own entertainment) respond to messages like yours on behalf of Mikey and the MRFF.
Your note caught me after a particularly strong cup of morning coffee as it reminded me of the effect that coffee had on my body–sooo cleansing!  Anyway, let’s look at your note (my responses are in purple–my favorite color because it’s a nice blend of the colors of our flag!) :
Weinstein[,] you wouldn’t even be alive today if it weren’t for Christian soldiers who fought in WW2.
 
Probably not true as most of Mikey’s family have been American citizens living in the USofA since well before WWII.  Did you know that’s Mikey’s dad was a 50’s era Naval Academy grad?  Also, do we only have to thank the Christian soldiers?  Were ALL US soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen from WWII Christian?  How do you know?  Was it a Christian Crusade to defeat the Nazis?  That would seem strange since, as I recall, the belt buckle (and other accoutrements) worn by many Wehrmacht soldiers had the inscription “Gott Mit Uns” (German for “God is with Us”).  That would imply that they, too, were Christians and at least some, if not a majority, believed they, too, were fighting on the side of the Christian god.  Christians killing Christians.  How confusing!!!  That’s hardly ever happened before or since WWII — except in every other European war, revolution, and insurrection, the US Civil War, and many other bloodbaths.  Well, our side won, so they must’ve been mistaken, right?  God always picks winners.
 
So why are you fighting that WW2 vets’ Bible on the POW Table in New Hampshire?
 

He’s not fighting against a Bible per se being on the table. He and we are fighting against the presumption that, if the ONLY book placed on or near the table is a Christian Bible, that Bible implies (counter to the Establishment Clause of the Constitution) that the only way POWs/MIAs can gain solace is through Christianity, or that only Christian POWs/MIAs are worthy of being honored and remembered.  This could be solved by having a table, bookshelf, or library of all other religious and secular texts from which one could gain solace and strength (my personal fave is “Charlotte’s Web”), but that being impractical, we think that we should just skip having a book there and let NOT set a fixed expectation of one’s religion.  If you think there should be a text there, then you should also then be okay with a Torah or Koran being in its place.  Right?

You’re [Your] existence is a[n] insult to America and all of our military and veterans.

 
Slow down, partner.  I think your good book says that he was created in God’s image, right?  Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!  God’s image is an insult to our military and veteran’s?  What are you saying, sir?
Your life is a[n]insult to every Christian who has ever wore the uniform.
See above.  I’d disagree.  There are plenty of avowed Christians who have served that I fight much more insulting.  William Calley (murderer) and Ollie North (liar, conspirator, felon) come to mind.  There are plenty of others.
Send back your Air Academy diploma. Your a total disgrace to our country. And to your religion too.
 
It’s US Air Force Academy, sir.  Air Academy is a high school.  Also, Mikey’s earned the respect and support of many Christians and tens of thousands of those serving in uniform for his efforts to protect the Constitutional rights of ALL in uniform, including many general officers, senior civilians, and simple soldiers/sailors/Marines/airmen.  Over 90% of his clients are avowed Christians.  Enough said.
 
So, thanks again, (name withheld) for allowing me to continue my morning constitutional.  It’s a beautiful day to be alive and American.  Good day to you, sir.
 
Marty France
Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)
MRFF Advisory Board Member

Response from MRFF Supporter Larry Wilkerson

On Aug 19, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Wilkerlb wrote:

Mr. (name withheld),

Mikey Weinstein asked that I respond to your recent email (below).
Your very first thought as expressed in the email is a complete misreading of the history of U.S. participation in World War II.  I’m not necessarily surprised at that since today many Americans are so ignorant of our history that they cannot even name the century, let alone the years, in which our Civil War occurred or even when the two world wars occurred.  You appear to be among that crowd.
Jewish-Americans fought in WWII in numbers exceeding their percentage representation in the overall U.S. population.  Dr. Henry Kissinger was one of those soldiers, later a professor at Harvard and national security advisor to President Richard Nixon.  Black Americans did as well—and I point that out because you probably are ignorant of that fact as well.  It is accurate to say that every type of “halfinated” American fought in the war, from Jewish to Hispanic, from African to Asian.  That is what America is: a melting pot.  All of us are immigrants.
So, your very first point was dead-wrong.  Your second point is equally misconceived.
No, the WWII Bible–nor any Bible at all–does not belong on a POW table at any US Government building.
First, the folks who designed the POW table and set up the format for it originally, did not include a Bible.
Second and all important, if the POW table is displayed in a government facility—which every VA facility is—a Bible should not be there because it conveys the message that the US Government supports a specific religion.  The US Government must not support a specific religion as a matter of Constitutional law, i.e., the US Constitution prohibits the advocacy of any religion by the US Government.  Now, if someone wanted to honor POWs and set up a table in, say, a Baptist Church, putting a Bible on that table would be okay, but it would still violate the original format for such a table.
In a government facility, one could display all of the relevant religious texts–the Koran, the Protestant Bible, the Catholic Bible, the Babylonian Talmud, the Jerusalem Talmud, the Torah, the Kojiki, the Vedas, and so on, but that would be a logistical nightmare; so, common sense tells us that to display no text at all is the best practice.You do, I hope, understand “common sense”?
At this point, with your two first and main points being dead-wrong, you are not doing too well, Mr. Bindersen.  But there is more.
Let’s try to sum up your other failures by saying this:
Your final lines quite accurately, apparently, describe you rather than Mr. Weinstein.  This is a common tactic of people who are ignorant, devious, filled with hate for their fellow humans, and generally disinclined to be decent, Christ-like human beings.  That is, they turn on others and accuse them of being what they in fact are.  Let me demonstrate by slightly rewriting what your email concluded with and making it more accurate:
Your email, Mr. Bindersen, is an insult to human knowledge, integrity, and character.  U.S. military veterans and military leaders find your views as being detrimental to good order, discipline and morale in the military forces.  Your views are insulting to their patriotism and to their oath to the U.S. Constitution. You, sir, are the disgrace to America—and, further, I’ll bet you never wore a uniform of the Armed Services of the United States.  I could be wrong here but you do not seem like such a person.  Sadly, you are also a disgrace to Christianity—the version that Jesus Christ originated, the version that is practiced by more than 95 percent of the more than 65,000 clients of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and by more than 80% of the MRFF’s paid and volunteer staff.
Not so respectfully,
Lawrence Wilkerson
Colonel, US Army (Retired)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:08 PM, Mike  wrote:

 

Hi (name withheld),

 

Let me tell you about what disgrace is. Disgrace is when an adult lashes out at someone he doesn’t know and condemns him for doing something he doesn’t understand. A disgrace is when you prove yourself a jackass by reacting defensively when no one is attacking you. Overreaction as you have shows personal weakness and all this disgraceful bluster is pathetic. Disgrace is having so little understanding of your own religion that you imagine yourself as its defender even as you shame it.

 

You are an embarrassment, (name withheld)your nonsensical message displays ignorance of not only the work of the MRFF but also a lack of understanding of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

If you don’t understand the problem represented by the Bible on the table in New Hampshire we’ll be glad to explain it to you, but first you have to come to us and ask, like a grownup. Mouthing off like a jerk based on your own lack of understanding of the situation leaves you looking like a clown. And that’s a disgrace.

 

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)


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25 Comments

  1. Sage on the Hudson

    “Weinstein you wouldn’t even be alive today if it weren’t for Christian soldiers who fought in WW2.”

    No, many of us wouldn’t be alive today were it not for Allied soldiers, sailors and airmen of all religions, and no religion, fighting and defeating Christian Nazi soldiers, sailors and airmen in World War II. There were very few Germans who were not either Lutherans or Catholics.

    Care to try some other equally-flawed line of reasoning?

  2. Robert Lee Giles

    Christians, like the Taliban, Al Queada, Isis, et al. sure seem to harbor a lot of vitriol and hatred! I don’t know how one can live a fulfilled life given the level of hatred they hold. Of course, they hold and express that hatred on behalf of their God so I suppose we really can’t hold it against them, it’s their God that ultimately seethes with such contempt for those that would deny His universal malevolence! They’re simply the messengers! Everyone knows that God lost his voice many thousands of years ago so he needs these hate-filled cretins to speak for him! Thank you MRFF for being the adult in the room! God may not reward you but Jesus will. He’s a bit less temperamental than his old man!

  3. XaurreauX

    Secularism is for grownups. You know, people who don’t need the government to prop up their religion.

  4. OldSoldier

    I don’t know why the MRFF raises so much fuss about a Bible on a table. Why don’t they do something positive for veterans instead of wasting everyones time. I am a retired Soldier who was a chaplain’s assistant during Desert Storm and Mister Farrell, General Compere, Mister Weinstein and all your ilk I am not going to use hateful words I’m going to be respectful and polite but I do not agree with what you are doing and you DO NOT represent me.

  5. The Watchman

    Amen Old Soldier

  6. Jared Russell Atkinson

    History has repeatedly shown that if Christians are given an inch, they will insist in a mile. By not quashing what you consider to be trivial, it will empower Christians to insist on less trivial concessions in the name of religious freedom.

  7. Grey One talks sass

    I stated this on another post so I’ll paraphrase here –

    1. Christian Nationalists refuse to share. They believe they have the one and only answer for everyone.

    2. If the Christian Bible is approved to stay on the secular POW table then the lawsuits to include everyone else must proceed at once.

    3. Christian Nationalists refuse to share. I know I said that already but it needs repeating. The whole give an inch and they take a mile thing is so 1980’s. Now every inch they are given is received as their due. Give an inch and they will take it all – or that has been my experience with CN’s.

    4. It’s not about the religion, it’s all about the power. Christian Nationalists love power so much they do not see the power of love. Hopefully that will be the CN’s downfall.

  8. Mark Sebree

    Grey One talks sass and Jared Russell Atkinson,

    The items that you state are all accurate, and they are the very reasons why the MRFF is needed and will continue to be needed for many years.

    And to Old Soldier, the MRFF will continue doing positive things for soldiers, sailors, and other military and veterans, like protecting their First Amendment rights and preventing the government from respecting the establishment of religion by overtly or implicitly favoring or disfavoring any religion or belief system, including christianity, as required by the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. Just because you do not respect the rights of others and want the government to endorse and promote your religion does not mean that the MRFF should stop helping others, or that they do not represent others.

  9. OldSoldier

    Mark Sebree you don’t know anything about me so don’t you tell me mister that I don’t respect the rights of others. I served 25 years in uniform I do not see anything positive about what this group does and if you do I think you are mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence. By the way, I researched and got the facts. The MRFF represents, it claims, 65,000 active duty personnel and veterans who served. That is less then one third of one percent of all active duty personnel and veterans who served. Do the research. There is nothing wrong with having a Bible on a table to remember departed comrades. We are one nation under God. People like the mrff twist words to justify their own beliefs but that does not make them, or you for that matter, right by a longshot.

  10. G

    Old Soldier, so what if you had served 25 years in uniform? It is unlawful to have a bible or religious document of any sort on a public secular memorial so it shows that you have no intelligence in your brain not to mention respecting the US Constitution plus not doing your research properly.

  11. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier said “…ravages of intelligence…”

    Ravage: noun- the severely damaging or destructive effects of something. verb- cause severe and extensive damage to.
    “fears that a war could ravage their country”

    Intelligence: noun- 1 the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. 2 the collection of information of military or political value

    Old Soldier, your name is appropriate as I believe your ‘oldness’ is impairing any intelligence you may have gained while serving your country. The Constitution- you know the document you swore to protect from all enemies foreign and domestic- says religion has no say in State matters. And as far as I can tell there is no part which states majority rules, nanny nanny boo boo.

    It’s laid out in the First Amendment. You might want to brush up on what it really says because based on your current and past comments you’ve been listening to the flawed historical renderings inspired by one David Barton.

    Your god, Old Soldier, is a pariah in my house yet you are convinced I must bow down in worship. Seems forced to me. Here is an idea – you keep your god, like your genitalia, under covers thanks so much. I don’t need to see either.

  12. OldSoldier

    G. what do you mean so what if I served 25 years. How many years did you serve. And let me tell you something I have two college degrees and have forgotten more then you’ll ever know!
    Grey One Talks Sass let me tell you don’t you DARE lecture and talk down to me because I know what the Constitution is and I put my life on the line in Desert Storm for it and for twenty years after that. I was willing to die for my country and my God. Nanny Nanny boo boo and talking about genitalia, that shows your level of maturity doesn’t. Why don’t you grow up, keep your smart comments to yourself and argue like a responsible adult.

  13. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier,

    Act like an adult and I’ll respond in kind. Continue to shove your religion where it doesn’t belong and I’ll continue to be my snarky self. No one asked you to die for your god so don’t be expecting praise for an act you took upon yourself to perform. Dying for your country – I thought that was part of the deal when you signed up. Has the Military Oath changed that much?

    As for daring…. oh honey, someone sounds like they need a nap because if you really understood the Constitution you’d be supporting the work done here at MRFF instead of sounding like an old person yelling at clouds. (Stage whisper – that’s snarky for you don’t have all the facts and sound like an idiot as a result.)

  14. OldSoldier

    First of all you rectal opening I am not your honey. Next I have two college degrees and have forgotten more then you’ll ever know. I know the MRFF is NOT about freedom. There just glorified playground bullies who only represent less then one third of one percent of our veterans and active duty military. I wish the MRFF would stop worrying about Bibles on tables and really do something to help veterans. I was a chaplain’s assistant in Desert Storm and the spiritual well being of Soldiers is just as important as anything else. People don’t believe in God anymore and that is why we have so many problems. and listen mister smart ass! if you can’t understand that then YOU are the idiot.

  15. G

    I guess I will have to spell it out for you since you can’t comprehend. Just because you serve 25 years doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on being a patriot and it doesn’t mean we grovel at your feet just because you were in the military. It also doesn’t mean that you use that uniform to impose your beliefs and rights on us while denying the rest of us our rights, beliefs, and even non-beliefs. Tell me what you know that you have forgotten, and then maybe I will be impressed, then again maybe not

    You have two college degrees. So what? Doesn’t make you any smarter. I have seen and read about American business leaders who have all these degrees and work experience and they still don’t know how to make an honest living without lying, cheating, stealing, not knowing how their products work and are always complaining about government; yet, they have no hesitation in robbing the government or taking government subsidies and tax breaks.

    Grey One has the right to lecture you and even look down on you since you really don’t know the Constitution.

  16. G

    Where is your proof that just because we don’t believe in God, we have these problems? Believing in God doesn’t solve the unemployment problem, drug problem, chronic alcohol problem, the homeless problem, lack of healthcare, good-paying jobs, people suffering from mental health problems, PTSD, poverty, hunger, etc.

    People in Western and Northern Europe are dropping out of the church; however, they manage to create a better standard of living without God’s help.

  17. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier,

    Not sure how you possessing two degrees proves intelligence as you’ve made a couple of statements which prove to me that you aren’t all that bright.

    First – you’ve stated more than once here and in other posts that you wish MRFF would help veterans. While a noble goal the MRFFs’ mission is help active military not retired. Not going to give you an analogy as you’ve already had temper tantrums and I don’t have the energy to face yet one more.

    Second – you yelled about a lot and yet did not address anyone’s point about pushing your faith as the one and only way to be faithful or to believe. You made a blanket statement that people stopped believing in God. I say to you calm down child. Not everyone is a nail you get to hammer with your faith.

    In a population of many millions it’s conceivable that differences in belief will occur. People with ancestors born in a different nation believe their way of faith is the one true way.

    The answer to who is correct is right under your nose. It’s called the Constitution and it provides a template for sharing, which you seem unable to do OldSoldier. For someone so proud of their service why would you not want to share?

    Oh yeah, it’s not about wanting what is best for your neighbor, it’s all about the control and power.

    Learn to share OldSoldier. It’s what Jesus would do.

  18. Grey One talks sass

    G – Old Soldier makes the rookie mistake of equating being good with belief in their own personal deity.

    You are correct – nations in Europe are becoming secular. To a control freak like The Church that has to be scary.

    Added note: regarding my poking OldSoldier and lack of respect for their two (count them with me One, Two! Ah-ha ha! The Count) degrees, I’ve learned in my time on this planet that there will always be those who are bigger, badder, and meaner than me. It doesn’t matter if I’m the smartest person in the room if I don’t use my brain.

    Sharing is the wise path. It’s the path advocated by many of the faiths in the world. Well, sharing and love. In my book anyone who refuses to practice either is a human to be avoided.

  19. The Watchman

    Grey Ones, we do not share because we have the answer for everyone, Jesus said he is the only way to heaven and there is no other. Period!!!

  20. The Watchman

    Old Soldier, Mikey needs a good beat down in a back alley by some old Marine drill instructors for that is what you do to bullies like him.

  21. Grey One talks sass

    You may be ‘A’ Watchman but you are not “The” Watchman.

    You have no answers, never have. All you offer is two thousand years of forcing a belief system onto those who cannot resist.

    Your track record has flaws, all I’m saying. Keep it up though. By your words and deeds will the people know you and your brethren. There is a reason church membership is falling.

    “You have no power over me.” (Bonus points for recognizing the movie reference).

  22. Mark Sebree

    Watchman,

    You claim that Mikey is a bully, but you are the one that is acting like the bully. You do not want to share your freedoms, and want to force others to follow your personal beliefs no matter what they actually believe. You say that, because Mikey is standing up to you and people like you, that he should be dragged into a back alley by a bunch of thugs and assaulted.

    Despite your delusions, you do NOT have the answer for anyone besides yourself. There are many, many other answers besides the one that you believe. For that matter, you do not even have any objective evidence that the answer you believe and want to force onto others is even the right one.

    Mikey is standing up to bullies like you in the military, preventing them from using their rank and position to oppress those that do not believe as they do because those that they oppress cannot fight back, speak up, or leave because of the hierarchical nature of the military. Mikey provides them with their shield and sword that their need to defend themselves, as well as allies to help in their fight.

    Those in the military take an oath to defend the USA and the Constitution from all enemies “foreign and domestic”. You do not care for the Constitution and the rights and freedoms that it guarantees to everyone, and you want to tear down the USA and replace it with a christian theocratic oligarchy with your intolerant, hateful religion in control. You are the very definition of a domestic enemy.

    Mikey continues to fulfill his oath of commissioning long after leaving the military. If you were ever in the military, it sounds to me like you abandoned your oath as soon as you left, if not long before.

  23. WFZ

    Grey One, church membership is only falling with the mainline denominations but increasing with the Pentecostal or Charismatic churches.

  24. Robert Smith

    I admire and respect the work you doing. One thing I do not understand is how it could even be possible to read this sort of at least borderline evil everyday and not have it affect your own psyche? I know that I would be depressed and saddened to observe that this many angry and hurtful people exist. People willing to attack others based on religion and race. People unwilling to consider they may be wrong and others may right.
    I hope every single person who writes your organization with hate in their hearts and their typewriters reads the answers that are filled with facts. Maybe one in a thousand can be swayed with truthfulness and common sense.
    Thank you again for doing what I would never be able to do.

  25. Mark Sebree

    Robert Smith,

    If I can propose a hypothesis. It is because he has others like Mike Farrell, John Compere, and others to help him read and answer his email. It is also because he has people like us who read these emails that he publishes, and defend him from other commenters who are as disillusioned and hateful as the original posters. And it is also the letters of thanks and gratitude that he gets from the people that he helps and their families. Those things can go a long way towards easing the pain he suffers every day from the haters and dominionists. He knows that he is not alone, his work is appreciated, and he is helping others.

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