education you missed in 5th grade civics class

From: (name withheld)
Subject: education you missed in 5th grade civics class
Date: September 4, 2019 at 4:18:36 AM MDT
To: ‘Michael L Weinstein’

I so hate a pseudo-intellect; you see it the most from members of the liberal party. their proclamations and rants only reinforce why their self-proclaimed moniker of being the DIM party is so apt. continue on with the weak minded, ill-conceived statements the more shameful you become. again, I so pity you, and those like you.

because I do not believe you have the capacity to know how to open the original email attachment, I have copied below what it contained. feel free to contact me should there be therein any big words and/or phrases that you do not understand or comprehend and I will endeavor to explain such to you in a manner that even you can understand.

(name withheld)

The United States Was Formed As A Christian Nation

The first paragraph in the Magna Carta reads as follows: “ Know that before God, for the health of our soul and those of our ancestors and heirs, to the honor of God, the exaltation of the Holy Church

“From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … that this is a Christian nation” (The U.S. Supreme Court, 1892).

John Adams, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, rightly said, “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were … the general principles of Christianity.”

The Declaration has many references to God throughout the document. The most famous one is that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”

The Constitution honors the Christian Sabbath. The President was given 10 days to sign a bill into law. The counting of the 10 days does not include the Sabbath. This is found in Article 1, Section 7, and Clause 2 which in part follows:

“If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law,”

When the Constitution was completed on September 17, 1787, it was signed by the delegates then to be ratified by the states. The delegates signed the Constitution in the “Year of our Lord.” This is a direct reference to Christianity. This is found in Article 7 which in part follows:

“Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, GO WASHINGTON–President. and deputy from Virginia”

The Paris Peace Treaty was the document which formally ended the Revolution and granted the United States independence from Great Britain. In a real sense, the United States formally became a nation on September 3, 1783.

When the United States became a nation, it was done in the “name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The preamble to this Treat states it is based upon the “Holy and undivided Trinity.” The concept of the holy Trinity is unique to Christianity. This statement means the United States was founded on the Christian faith. The complete Preamble follows:

“In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity”

The Treaty then ends just like the Constitution with a statement it is being signed in the “Year of our Lord.” The witnesses representing the United States were John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and D. Hartley. The section in part follows:

“In witness whereof we the undersigned, their ministers plenipotentiary, have in their name and in virtue of our full powers, signed with our hands the present definitive treaty and caused the seals of our arms to be affixed thereto.Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three”


Response from MRFF Senior Research Director Chris Rodda

From: [email protected]
Date: September 4, 2019 at 11:59:11 AM MDT
Subject: Re: education you missed in 5th grade civics class

Hi (name withheld) …

I may not remember as far back as 5th grade, but I do know Christian nationalist history revisionism when I see it.

Here is a point by point response to the little list of what you claim are “proofs” that “The United States Was Formed As A Christian Nation.”

The items from your list are in bold, followed by my responses to each item.

Chris Rodda
Senior Research Director, Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Author of “Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right’s Alternate Version of American History” volumes 1 & 2

———————————

The United States Was Formed As A Christian Nation

The first paragraph in the Magna Carta reads as follows: “ Know that before God, for the health of our soul and those of our ancestors and heirs, to the honor of God, the exaltation of the Holy Church

You do understand that the Magna Carta is a British document and not an American one, right?

 

“From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … that this is a Christian nation” (The U.S. Supreme Court, 1892).

In 1905, Justice Brewer, the justice whose dicta in the opinion in the 1892 case of Holy Trinity v. United States this quote comes from, wrote a series of lectures in which he clarified that the United States cannot be called a Christian nation “in the sense that Christianity is the established religion or that the people are in any manner compelled to support it.”

John Adams, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, rightly said, “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were … the general principles of Christianity.”

The two phrases pieced together to make up this quote are out of order from two different paragraphs found in a letter that Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson, edited to enable history revisionists (like whoever compiled this list) to leave out that Adams included not only Christians but also non-trinitarians and deists and atheists among the Revolutionary War soldiers he was writing about. Here’s a longer, unedited passage from the part of the letter quoted (emphasis added):

“Who composed that army of fine young fellows that was then before my eyes? There were among them Roman Catholics, English Episcopalians, Scotch and American Presbyterians, Methodists, Moravians, Anabaptists, German Lutherans, German Calvinists, Universalists, Arians, Priestleyans, Socinians, Independents, Congregationalists, Horse Protestants, and House Protestants, Deists and Atheists, and Protestants ‘qui ne croyent rien.’ Very few, however, of several of these species; nevertheless, all educated in the general principles of Christianity, and the general principles of English and American liberty.”

The Declaration has many references to God throughout the document. The most famous one is that men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”

None of the mentions of a generic higher power in the Declaration of Independence refer specifically to the Christian god, so how is this evidence of America being a Christian nation? From the language used to refer to a god you could just as easily say that it makes America a Deist nation.

 

The Constitution honors the Christian Sabbath. The President was given 10 days to sign a bill into law. The counting of the 10 days does not include the Sabbath. This is found in Article 1, Section 7, and Clause 2 which in part follows:

“If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law,”

Respecting as a practical matter that the majority of Americans were Christian and took Sundays off by excepting Sundays from the ten days a president had to return a bill to Congress is a far cry from stating that America was a Christian nation.

When the Constitution was completed on September 17, 1787, it was signed by the delegates then to be ratified by the states. The delegates signed the Constitution in the “Year of our Lord.” This is a direct reference to Christianity. This is found in Article 7 which in part follows:

“Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, GO WASHINGTON–President. and deputy from Virginia”

First of all, the attestation statement, beginning with “Done in Convention …” is NOT part of Article 7 of the Constitution. It is not part of the body of the Constitution at all. This is a lie made up by Christian nationalist pseudo-historian David Barton.

Article 7, the last article of the Constitution, is a single sentence, and all that sentence says is that the Constitution needed to be ratified by nine states to go into effect:

“The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.”

Because Article 7 is the last article of the Constitution, what comes right after it is the attestation statement:

“Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth   In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,”

Barton claims that this closing statement of the whole Constitution is part of Article 7, calling it “the attestation clause of Article 7.” It’s not.

For further proof – as if any proof were even needed at all – that the Constitution’s attestation statement is not a part of the body of the Constitution, just look at the copies of the Constitution signed at the state ratifying conventions. What don’t you find on these copies? The Constitutional Convention’s attestation statement. Why? Because that was the Constitutional Convention’s attestation statement. It was what that convention was attesting to having done. It was the members of that convention witnessing that the Constitution had been done in that convention and signed by that convention’s members on that date.What you find on the copies signed by the state ratifying conventions are the attestation statements of those conventions, attesting to their ratifying of the Constitution and the date on which they ratified it. In other words, the Constitutional Convention’s attestation statement wasn’t ratified by the states as part of the Constitution because it wasn’t part of the Constitution.

The most obvious and likely explanation that they dated the Constitution the way they did – both for the “year of our Lord” wording and adding that it was the twelfth year of the independence of the United States – is that they were snidely mimicking how Great Britain dated its laws and other official documents. Britain’s conventional form for dating its laws and documents was the month and day, followed by “in the year of our Lord” and the year, and what was customarily added to the date was what year it was in the reign of whatever monarch was in power at the time. For example, the laws passed in a session of Parliament would be dated:

“… at the Parliament begun and holden at Westminster, the tenth day of May, in the year of Our Lord 1768, in the eighth year of the reign of Our Sovereign Lord George the Third”

This British form of dating laws and documents would obviously have been very familiar to the framers of the Constitution. They had seen it over and over on all the laws that America was subject to when the states were colonies. The idea of making a statement by mimicking this British form, but replacing the year of the monarch’s reign with the year of America’s independence, is the most plausible explanation for the why the Constitution was dated the way it was.

And let me ask you this: if dating documents “in the year of our Lord” was so important to the founders, why didn’t they date the Declaration of Independence in this way?

The Paris Peace Treaty was the document which formally ended the Revolution and granted the United States independence from Great Britain. In a real sense, the United States formally became a nation on September 3, 1783.

When the United States became a nation, it was done in the “name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The preamble to this Treat states it is based upon the “Holy and undivided Trinity.” The concept of the holy Trinity is unique to Christianity. This statement means the United States was founded on the Christian faith. The complete Preamble follows:

“In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity”

The Treaty then ends just like the Constitution with a statement it is being signed in the “Year of our Lord.” The witnesses representing the United States were John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and D. Hartley. The section in part follows:

“In witness whereof we the undersigned, their ministers plenipotentiary, have in their name and in virtue of our full powers, signed with our hands the present definitive treaty and caused the seals of our arms to be affixed thereto.Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three”

The peace treaty of 1783 was not written by the United States. The reference to the trinity was not an acknowledgement by the government of the United States that America was a Christian nation. It was an acknowledgement by the government of England that England was a Christian nation. “In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity” was the customary way that England, like most of the Christian nations of Europe, began their treaties and other documents. The United States had nothing to do with the religious wording in this or any other treaty.

Compare the language of the England-written treaty to the language used when it was the United States writing a treaty. The following is the opening statement from an 1818 convention with Great Britain, and is typical of the manner in which conventions and treaties written by the government of the United States began:

“The United States of America, and his Majesty the King of Great Britain and Ireland, desirous to cement the good understanding which happily subsists between them…”

This was followed by the names of the agents of both parties, followed by nothing more than their position in their government and who they were appointed by. That’s it — no trinity or other religious references.


Response from MRFF President and Founder Mikey Weinstein
From: Michael L Weinstein <[email protected]>
Subject: education you missed in 5th grade civics class
Date: September 3, 2019 at 3:46:53 PM MDT
To:  (name withheld)
……..no offense, little uneducated friend, but your fundamentalist Christian “education” is worth about as much as the dog crap I pick up in our backyard from our German Shepherd/Border Collie security working dogs many times each week…..the USA was formed as a singularly SECULAR republic….your claim of the USA being a “Christian Nation” is as ignorantly fallacious as believing in the Easter Bunny or The Great Pumpkin……in America, BY LAW, Christianity is granted no more deference than any other faith or non-faith tradition…..stop believing in lies, little sport…..

Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right’s Alternate … – Amazon.com

 

https://www.amazon.com › Liars-Jesus-Religious-Alternate-American

The United States Was Formed As A Christian Nation     The first paragraph in the Magna Carta reads as follows: “ Know that before God, for the health of our  soul and those of our ancestors and heirs, to the honor of God, the exaltation of the Holy Church    “From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation  … that this is a Christian nation” (The U.S. Supreme Court, 1892).    John Adams, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, rightly said, “The general principles  on which the fathers achieved independence were … the general principles of Christianity.”    The Declaration has many references to God throughout the document. The most famous one is that  men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.  “We hold these Truths to be self‐evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their  Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”    The Constitution honors the Christian Sabbath. The President was given 10 days to sign a bill into law.  The counting of the 10 days does not include the Sabbath. This is found in Article 1, Section 7, and  Clause 2 which in part follows:    “If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have  been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law,”    When the Constitution was completed on September 17, 1787, it was signed by the delegates then to be  ratified by the states. The delegates signed the Constitution in the “Year of our Lord.” This is a direct  reference to Christianity. This is found in Article 7 which in part follows:    “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of  September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the  Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto  subscribed our Names, GO WASHINGTON–Presidt. and deputy from Virginia”
The Paris Peace Treaty was the document which formally ended the Revolution and granted the United  States independence from Great Britain. In a real sense, the United States formally became a nation on  September 3, 1783.    When the United States became a nation, it was done in the “name of the most holy and undivided  Trinity.” The preamble to this Treat states it is based upon the “Holy and undivided Trinity.” The concept  of the holy Trinity is unique to Christianity. This statement means the United States was founded on the  Christian faith. The complete Preamble follows:    “In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity”    The Treaty then ends just like the Constitution with a statement it is being signed in the “Year of our  Lord.” The witnesses representing the United States were John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and  D. Hartley. The section in part follows:    “In witness whereof we the undersigned, their ministers plenipotentiary, have in their name and in  virtue of our full powers, signed with our hands the present definitive treaty and caused the seals of our  arms to be affixed thereto.Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one  thousand seven hundred and eighty‐three”

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere
On Sep 3, 2019, at 7:27 PM, John Compere wrote:
Dear anonymous pseudo-scholar,
 
Your “elementary education” essay the USA was formed as a Christian nation is a fairy tale as frivolous as it is false.
It is fact, history & law our nation was created as a secular republic – not a sectarian nation based on religion.
 
The Preamble to the Constitution provides 6 secular reasons our nation was established for “We the People”. The secular Constitution contains no deity reference & commands “no religious test” shall ever be required for public office. The USA was the first government in history formed without acknowledging dependency on a higher authority (emperor, monarch, deity, religion, etc.). There were no public prayers during the 116 day Constitutional Convention. James Madison reminded delegates of its secular purpose “This is derived from the superior power of the people”. Over 80% of colonists did not belong to religion establishments in 1776.
 
This was publicly proclaimed & confirmed by our Founders in the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, an international legal document, negotiated & prepared during 1st President Washington’s administration, unanimously ratified by the US Senate & signed by 2nd President Adams, notifying the world “The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion”.
 
History deniers & revisionists like yourself with self-serving sectarian agendas deliberately & dishonestly disregard our historically documented secular founding. Your unqualified & ill-conceived claims are based on your personal ideologies and not on facts, history, law or our founding & governing documents. You could not convince a 5th grader. Checkmate.
 
John Compere
Brigadier General, Judge Advocate General’s Corps, US Army (Retired)
Former Chief Judge, US Army Court of Military Review
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Advisory Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (over 80% Christians)

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17 Comments

  1. OldSoldier

    Mister Weinstein I read your reply to what this man wrote and I would hate to be around you when you are trying to be offensive. I believe our nation is a Christian Godly one and for you to compare that with the Easter Bunny shows your appalling ignorance (as well as your crudity). Why doesn’t your organization of glorified playground bullies really help veterans instead of wasting time and money concerning Bibles on tables and Soldiers talking about God.

  2. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier, it is I, the bane of your existence. Again.

    Did you read the response from Chris Rodda? Her facts are accepted by all logical and rational thinking people. And yet your response focused on Mikey’s reply because you have no answers for Chris. How can you, as she speaks in facts, not opinions.

    You Old Soldier speak only in opinion. You have no facts. And that is what Mikey was trying to tell you. Of course you missed the message. Your brain is filled with fluff n’stuff.

    Try opening your mind. Accept some of what you were taught is wrong. It’s not easy but anything worthwhile is never easy. Or have you forgotten that lesson from the military?

    It is a fact the USA was designed as a secular nation in which a bunch of Christian people live. That does not make the USA a Christian nation. Never has. Never will.

  3. OldSoldier

    Once again don’t lecture me about the military and what it taught me you rectal opening and on my dumbest day I’m better then you on your smartest. I’ll tell you something else, the reason our nation is in the shape its in today is that people don’t believe in God anymore. Weinstein even wanted to take “so help me God” out of the military oath and hurt an old WWII who was kind enough to donate a family Bible to place on that MIA table. With all the other issues concerning our military like schooling for their children, help for their spouses and helping veterans with PTSD and disabilities to me that makes what the MRFF does totally RIDICULOUS. Oh by the way have you forgot “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” By the way Chris Rodda just stated opinions not facts.

  4. OldSoldier

    It used to be in schools that prayer was allowed and students were taught that America is the greatest nation on earth. Love of our creator and love of this great land the two greatest lessons we could teach our young people. Look at how troubled they are today. We need God in our lives and return to the old fashioned values of our dear forefathers who believed in God AND FOUNDED THIS NATION AS ONE UNDER GOD. If they were alive and could see the MRFF and what they are doing they would turn in their graves. God bless America

  5. G

    Old Soldier, just because the word “Creator” is in the Constitution does not prove that the USA was based on Christian values. If it was based on Christian value, then how come it took a long time to and a war to end slavery? If the country was based on Christian values, then explain why women and people who were poor not allowed to vote.? if the country was based on Christian values, then why was the American worker not allowed to enjoy the fruits of his/her labor until the Great Depression of 1929 came along and FDR introduce economic and labor reforms so the workers can have a decent life?

  6. G

    Old Soldier, America is not the greatest country on earth when you look at the lack of affordable/free education, the right to strike and organize a union, plenty of opportunities to move up the social/economic ladder, consumer and workers rights. The young people are in trouble today because the top business, political, and social leaders have been chucking away the kids’ future for the last 39 years.

    You can return to the old fashioned values and it still would not solve the problems that this country is facing.

  7. OldSoldier

    G listen and listen close if you don’t like America pack your bags and get the hell out! You listen to me! I traveled all over the world in my 25 years of service and there is no country like the good old USA. Abraham Lincoln said it best to the poorest and humblest among us are granted the greatest rights and privileges. Harry Truman said we are the only country to ever lend a helping hand to all the world’s people even our enemies. The two things that make me the most angry are when people badmouth our country and badmouth the Lord and you did both. I am so angry I can hardly see to type. You mentioned slavery, women’s suffrage and the Depression. I am not denying those were terrible and we should always remember the mistakes of history. We need God to keep us on the right path. I always think of that beautiful song God Bless the USA and the verse that goes I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free…I won’t forget those who died who gave that right to me GOD BLESS THE USA. You little weasel go to some third world country and see how they live. Come to think of it I would love to tell you to go somewhere else

  8. G

    Old Soldier, you listen and you listen well. Me and other people are staying in America to make it a better place and people like you can pack up and leave. Do not give me the old phrase America, love it or leave it. Those days are over ever since the Cold War ended in the 1990s. It is about time for America to solve its own problems since they have been ignore for too damn long and have been swept under the rug. Unless you are a Native Americans, we are all immigrants so buzz off. If the USA was so good, then why aren’t the Norwegians leaving their country to come to America? Because they have a better social, political, and economic system than we do and I don’t see any reason why we can’t have the same ones in this country.

    You look at the poorest people in the USA, they have not been granted rights and privileges because the wealthy people and CEOs have been denying their rights before the Great Depression and after Reagan came into office. Many of those soldiers died fro nothing and many of them are spinning in their graves after seeing how the country went from a good one to a bad one in 39 years.

    Where did I badmouth God? If I did, then may he strike me down; however, I am still alive; otherwise, I would not be writing back to you. You have American business leaders and wealthy people badmouthing the government all the time even though the government has given them just about everything that they wanted, so why don’t you tell them to leave the country and tell them to bring th manufacturing jobs backs that they stole from the American people.

    The way the USA had spinal down for the last 39 years thanks to the Republican Party, conservative wealthy people, and business leaders, we are going to be a third world country. Half of the American people are living in poverty, you have a lot of homeless and mentally ill people out on the streets (many of them veterans I might add), and many people have to make the terrible decision to spend money on the rent or buying food for their kids.

  9. G

    So what if you travel all over the world? If you look at the history of the USA, our political and business leaders didn’t bother to make Central and South America countries, African countries and Asian countries bastions of democracy. Instead, we treated them like colonies and torture, imprison and even murder anyone who tried to reclaim their national sovereignty from American corporations. The USMC General Smedly Butler stated that he was a muscle man for American corporations and there was a book out a few years ago, titled the Confession of an Economic Hit Man. You need to read that book to give you a comprehensive education to make up your lack of one.

  10. Sasha Whitefur

    The Us Constitution, was inspired, by the Articles Of Confederation, Of the Iroquois Nations.

    Hodenonsaunee/Iroquois

  11. BRP

    G,
    Nobody deserves a free education nor are they entitled to a free education.

  12. G

    Wrong, BRP, free education is a human right. None of us were asks if we wanted to be brought into this world. If no one is entitled to a free education, then I guess Congress shouldn’t have passed the GI Bill during World War II.

  13. BRP

    G,
    Please show some law or document that shows we are entitled to a free college education? Also, the GI Bill does not cover everything.

  14. G

    BRP, please show me some law or document that people are not entitled to a free college education. The GI Bill passed in 1943 was a lot more generous than what it is today.

  15. OldSoldier

    G you mentioned God striking you down and I find that a most delicious thought. You listen mister we ARE the greatest country on earth and always will be. Just because some of our leaders have failed doesn’t me America has failed. Your right that kids are in trouble today because they don’t have discipline and they don’t have God in their lives.

  16. G

    Old Soldier, we are not the greatest county on earth compare to the countries of Western and Northern Europe that have higher standards of living than we do.

    The problems that kids have today are caused by our top political, social, religious, and economic leaders who have no discipline in their own lives despite the fact that they should have had it a long time ago. Regarding having God in their lives, well again, many of our top political, social, economic, and even religious leaders don’t have God in thelr lives despite the fact that many of them have gone to Church for many, many years and even have gone through the religious school systems when they were young kids.

    Many of the kids see the hypocrisy of both religion and God and want no part of of either one. They also see how many of these God fearing adults worship the Gods of money, greed, and power and don’t believe that there is a God or if there is a God, that God will forgive them of their sins instead of punishing them.

  17. G

    Old Soldier, you have forgotten that countries rise and fall and the USA is falling big time.

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