Now, who’s the “Bully”?

On Sep 3, 2019, at 7:40 AM, (name withheld) wrote:

     Military Religious Freedom Organization?   Sounds like just the opposite—NO Military-or anyone else’s -Religious Freedom!    Just read of your unhinged rant concerning the Missing Man’s Bible, your years of suppressing religious freedom, your “direct line to Obama’s  WH”.

    Well, Bibles, Christmas cards, singing carols IS religious freedom, whether you like it or not, practiced by millions, &guaranteed in our Constitution by our Founding Fathers, all religious men themselves, who probably had a few bigots in their time, too!

  Which is why they wisely included it!   Think they called it an unalienable right!

     And if you choose not to, you’re not forced to read them,   send them, or sing them!   Nor are you forced to believe, either.   THAT’s true religious freedom!   You can take it or leave it!

    But you can’t suppress it!

     And Obama’s no longer president, thank goodness!   And this country is back to a world power, booming economy & true religious freedom!

     So, blow it out your ear, Mikey!


Response from MRFF President and Founder Mikey Weinstein

From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]militaryreligiousfreedom.org>
Date: September 3, 2019 at 9:08:04 AM MDT
To:  (name withheld)
Subject: Now, who’s the “Bully”?
(name withheld) , you’re not getting the correct information at all… Maybe go to our website and try to do a little homework before wasting our time with arrogant cynical and imperious emails to us like the one below…Thanks for taking the time to reach out nevertheless…Mikey

On Sep 3, 2019, at 11:03 AM,  (name withheld) wrote:

 Yes, Mikey—who calls a grown man Mikey-  you’re the reason we still fight for ALL religions.   Or NO religion if you choose!   But freedom implies that we don’t ask they be hidden away.  If they want to display or offer religious media in full view, that’s their right!     Nobody’s twisting anyone’s arm to read or believe any of them!

     And many tolerant, curious people are interested in what these different religions have to say & offer!  They read about them & become more insightful as to different races & different beliefs—which most certainly influences people’s actions!

    The left advertises murdering babies born breathing & crying, they. open our borders to cartels, gangs, sex/slave traffickers, they spread hate & divisiveness every day, & do it for a vote!   Which certainly has more dire consequences than an unread Bible on a table!

    So, when you get so riled up over a Bible being displayed—are you afraid some atheist might read it & believe?  That seems as ludicrous as the name of your organization, the farthest thing from religious freedom you can find!

     Maybe you should rename to Military Persecution of Religious Freedom!   Seems more accurate!

    And, again, nobody’s forcing anybody to become “religious”, which is evidently what you’re so worried about!

   So, please, “Mikey”, go jump in the lake & take your fear of religion complex w/ you!

(name withheld)

Response from MRFF President and Founder Mikey Weinstein
From: Mikey Weinstein <[email protected]militaryreligiousfreedom.org>
Date: September 3, 2019 at 11:06:37 AM MDT
To:  (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Sorry!  You’re still a bigot!
Oh, please I (name withheld)…?!?!… Your repulsive Christian privilege is showing… As the old saying goes, fish in an aquarium never see the water… You are way too blinded to understand the nature of how it feels to have a Bible bolted on the POW MIA table which is meant to represent ALL veterans… In order to honor ALL veterans that Bible cannot be there… It is unconstitutional… Again, do a little research before you start spewing your Ignorant and malodorous bile towards me or others…
Mikey Weinstein

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member John Compere

On Sep 3, 2019, at 8:37 AM, John Compere  wrote:

(name withheld)
 
Department of Veteran Affairs medical centers are for all veterans (of different religious & non-religious beliefs) seeking health care. They are not worship centers for only fundamentalist Christians. Religious scriptures can be placed in the hospital chapels for those who wish to see, read or use them.
 
To publicly promote one religion over all other beliefs by placing its religious scripture in the middle of non-religious POW/MIA remembrance displays in the public foyer of government facilities violates the US Constitution 1st Amendment (as well as long standing American law) prohibiting our secular government from endorsing & promoting religion & requiring government neutrality regarding religion (neither pro-religion nor anti-religion but religion-neutral).
 
The very definition of a republic is “…a nation of laws and not of men.” – 2nd President John Adams.
 
Most Sincerely,
 
John Compere
Brigadier General, Judge Advocate General’s Corps, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Advisory Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (over 80% are Christians)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Sep 3, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Martin France wrote:


 

(name withheld), I occasionally answer emails for the MRFF now that I’ve retired from active duty and serve on the MRFF’s Advisory Board.  I hope you don’t mind if I try to address your concerns and comments.  First, let me start by asking if you’ve ever served in the military?  It would appear not.  Have you read the Constitution?  Probably not that either.  If you’d read the latter, you might be able to refer to the part about not establishing a state religion.

You see, when you’re a civilian reading articles on the web, you’re very free to have your own Bible, send Christmas cards, sing carols, go to church, and even proselytize.  I served in the military for over four decades in order to guarantee you that right.  You have a Constitutional right to do all of those things.  But, and this is a BIG but, the Constitution, reaffirmed by court cases like Parker vs Levy (you’re a smart woman, so you can do the research on that one), and supported by regulations (e.g., Air Force Instruction 1-1), says that the government can’t establish a religion or give preference to one religion over others.  Moreover, there can’t be a religious test for those serving in positions of public trust such as a military member (hint:  Article 6).  Military commanders cannot require or encourage their subordinates to follow their personal religious practices or, in fact, ANY religious practice.  So, while a commander can send Christmas cards to whomever she wants, she can’t require her subordinates to sing Christmas carols, go to church, or even say “Merry Christmas” any more than they could require them to fast during Ramadan if they were Muslim or do peyote if they are originally from Hopi.
Unalienable rights?  The fact is, the word “unalienable” doesn’t appear in our Constitution (see:   https://constitutionus.com/ )  You can find that word in the Declaration of Independence, but not with respect to religion. IT just says that we have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  To me, an Atheist, that means that I should be free, while serving the nation in the military, from religious coercion, pressure, or bias–free to NOT practice a religion just as you are free to do so.
The MRFF actually defends THOUSANDS of members of the military every year–mostly Christians–who are improperly and inappropriately pressured into religious activity of some sort by their commanders that violates their specific beliefs or that they find inappropriate for the workplace.  
So, I presume that you’re Christian from your letter.  Let’s play “pretend.”  You’ve just gotten the job of your dreams working for some government organization (maybe you’ve joined the military).  You new boss says that since she is Muslim and thinks that all women should wear the hijab, she’d really like to see all of the women in the organization wear the hijab when she sees them outside of the workplace–and even in the workplace if possible.  Moreover, every year she keeps smiling at you and saying “Eid Mubarak!”  During the days before that, she’s invited you to a fast-breaking dinner at her house and insisted that you not eat anything that day (at work) while the Sun is up.  Then, you notice that she keeps promoting all of her Muslim friends ahead of you.  You’re not forced to read the Koran or sing her songs or recite her prayers, but the only book on the common reception area coffee table is a Koran–and it’s bolted down so no one can remove it.  You try to place a Bible there, but it’s always being removed.  (This part with the Koran is exactly what’s happened a the Manchester NH VA Center, but with a Bible)
What I’ve described is what happens almost routinely (but with Christian aspects replacing Muslim) in many military organizations.  Can you not place yourself in that situation and ask yourself if the Golden Rule shouldn’t apply?
In summary, the MRFF fights for the rights of ALL Americans to serve honorably in the US Military without being subjected to religious bias, pressured to practice a specific religion, disrespected because of their personal religious beliefs, or deprived of promotion or advancement for same.  ALL can practice their religion outside of the office in the personal time.  None can discriminate against other military members because of those personal practices and beliefs.
I hope you can see that.  If not, then I’ve just wasted 10 minutes writing this.
 
Have a wonderful evening,
Marty France
Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)
MRFF Advisory Board Member

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10 Comments

  1. Grey One talks sass

    Letter writer made the classic mistake of assuming Atheists haven’t read the Christian Bible.

    LOL

    It’s because they read the Bible that they stopped believing.

    Christian Nationalists aka the Christian Taliban. They really don’t get it, do they?

  2. BRP

    Maybe they did not read the Bible long enough to allow the Holy Spirit to really speak to them.

  3. OldSoldier

    Grey One you are the bane of my existence. I cannot believe you compared Christians to terrorists. How low can you sink. You didn’t have the guts to answer when I asked if you served in the military so I just think your stolen valor. I’m not a minister but I do read the Bible and believe every word of what it says and I am a better person for it. We have become such a cruel hateful world because so many don’t believe in God anymore. Do you know that religion played an important role in the founding of America. Before the Revolution the colonists disagreed with the English church customs and wanted to worship God in their own way, that whetted their appetite and made them realize they wanted not just freedom to worship but freedom in general. I stand for the flag and kneel only for the cross.

  4. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier I answered you about my service. You didn’t like my answer.

    It doesn’t surprise me you believe everything you’ve read in the Bible. The cognitive dissonance you display with every comment had to come from somewhere.

    As for how the USA started, I’m aware the Puritans and why they came to the New World. I also know they were equally of not more intolerant of other faiths as those they were fleeing. Interesting you’d use them as an example. Do you see the parallels?

    I didn’t call all Christians the Taliban. My parents are Christian. I called Christian Nationalists the Christian Taliban. Also interesting you missed that point, you being an educated person and all.

    The bane of your existence, eh? And here I was trying to get you to think.

  5. Grey One talks sass

    BRP wrote “Maybe they did not read the Bible long enough to allow the Holy Spirit to really speak to them.”

    How very Christian Nationalist to judge another’s spiritual journey. As if just reading one book so many consider to be holy would be enough.

    The internet is filled with people who beat themselves up because some yahoo (like BRP) thought they should feel something but didn’t. They are the folks leaving the church and responding to religious questionnaires with the answer of none. (I know Evangelicals like to claim their membership is growing and to an extent they do gain in numbers when the IFB church in the next town closes. Passing members around is not true growth).

    Reading a book filled with gore, death, genocide, slavery, and intolerance is not my idea of a good way to reach enlightenment. And I’ve not even started with the issues created by the numerous contradictions.

    Too many people know the truth, that The Church looks out only for the church. Pastors aren’t really descended from god but humans who are prone to taking advantage and pushing boundaries.

    Good people exist without religion. And good people exist within it. I have no issue with religion as long as it stays on its side of the divide. What divide Grey One?

    The divide between Church and State, immortalized in the First Amendment. The one that says when a person is employed by government they can hold their religion in their heart but it had better not leak out in their actions or words while on duty.

    It’s possible. I’ve know many good people of deep abiding faith who never crossed the Church/State line.

    Christian Nationalists could walk the same line but it’s not about faith. It’s all about power. Not a good look Nationalists, just saying.

  6. OldSoldier

    Grey one talks sass how dare you mock the Bible. I have read it and have never found anything like that in it. It is the word of God and belongs on that table. Have you even read the Bible, what do you mean about contradictions. Our nation needs God and Jesus Christ. You need to pray and accept them to.

  7. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier

    I mock what I wish. It’s my First Amendment right.

    You’ve read the Bible and didn’t see what I listed? Perhaps if you read it again, all of it this time, not just the highlighted parts you will see what
    I mean

    Per my paragraph above I’d say yes, I’ve read the Christian Bible. Holding back the snark may kill me but this is important. Serious time.

    I’m not educating you on the contradictions. Not when there are amazing resources on the interwebz. Apparently several someone’s got tired of people like you Old Soldier, denying the contradictions existed so they listed them. To my OCD soul the charts and graphs dance with lights of souls eliminated by anyone who dared to ask a question.

    I don’t need your version of Jesus Old Soldier. And you do not have the authority or power to make me believe as you wish.

  8. OldSoldier

    Did you ever think that someday you’ll answer to God and all your snarky blasphemous comments will be played back to you? You’ll end up begging for a drop of water to cool your acid tongue. There is a God and there is an afterlife. You either reap the reward or suffer the consequences. I pray for you and hope you see the light. By the way, the Bible isn’t just “one book” its the word of God and I take everything in it as literal truth. Maybe you just have the knowledge to understand it. I hope you straighten up and fly right before it’s too late. By the way dumb dumb you contradicted yourself. You said “I’ll mock what I want it’s my first amendment right (free speech) then you said people who believe in God should not speak about it. Boy that makes a lot of sense.

  9. Grey One talks sass

    Old Soldier – I neither want nor need your prayers so please focus your energy elsewhere.

    You wrote “By the way dumb dumb you contradicted yourself. You said “I’ll mock what I want it’s my first amendment right (free speech) then you said people who believe in God should not speak about it. Boy that makes a lot of sense.”

    I never said people who believe in god should not speak of their belief. I do say and believe if a person is employed as a representative of the State (meaning government since you like to play like you don’t understand what I’ve written) or the Military it is their responsibility to keep their faith to themselves while on duty.

    Religion is like genitalia; it’s all well and good you have parts Old Soldier but one doesn’t wave them about in public. Well, based on your comments, maybe you do. I don’t know. I’m not you.

  10. G

    “Maybe they did not read the Bible long enough to allow the Holy Spirit to really speak to them.”

    Dear BRP

    How long should one read the Bible before the Holy Spirits speaks to them? Do you have a definite answer on that one?

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