Christmas Santa

……Hi, (name withheld)…perhaps you recall Mike Farrell from M*A*S*H??…his recent answer below to another person may be of use to you…all best, Mikey Weinstein…head of MRFF

 

Dear (name withheld),

 

I see Mikey has already responded to you, so I hope you have a somewhat better understanding of the situation. I’d just like to make a couple of points in addition.

 

One doesn’t have to read far into your message to see that you have, or perhaps had, the impression ours is an organization of anti-Christian atheists who hate God and religion and are busily promoting atheism. As Mikey has pointed out, that is not the case. The MRFF was formed when it became clear that there is an active attempt by by a group or sect of Christians who believe very passionately that theirs is the one and only true faith, that all other belief systems are false, and that it is their duty to spread their chosen faith to the world. One of their goals, in fact, is the make Christianity the official religion of the United States, and one of he parts of that is to make the U.S. military “Jesus’ Army.”

Just exactly what do you base your statement “One of their goals, in fact (WHAT FACTS) is to make Christianity the official religion of the US and one of  he (sic) parts of that is to make the US military “Jesus Army”.

 

Now you may or may not believe that this can be the case, but our experience demonstrates it to be so.

What experience.  Did someone tie you down and force any religion down your throat?  Give some specifics.  Claims of facts not supported are easy to make.

I personally have no problem with people having deeply felt, passionate convictions about whatever their belief system might be, but I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that others have just as much of a right to  their own.

I agree everyone has a right to their religious beliefs, or lack of belief in anything.  My experience with the Army chaplains, some really great people, is that they come from all faiths and I never had any chaplain try to pressure people to believe in one faith.  Our unit had a Catholic priest as chaplain, a great man, who never tried to “convert” anyone.  Even the WICA have their own chaplains.

 

For the people who attack us, the first line of assault is usually that we are atheists. Or communists. Or both. And then of course, because of Mikey’s name, we are Jews – often dirty, hooked-nosed, money-grubbing Jews who are Christ-killers. And of course there are variations on these ugly themes.

I did not assume that you organization is a group of any particular religious people, or a group of atheist.  I just found it odd that you would claim to represent all people in the military while you obviously try to tear down Christians, who by belief in their faith, feel it part of their faith to share their beliefs.  Again, share, not force anyone to do anything.  AND, hasn’t the military decided the people of the Muslim faith can wear that cloth around their heads?  Doesn’t that immediately tell you that they are Muslim?  Don’t some schools provide the special wash basin so Muslim children can perform the religious “washing of hands” before meals?  Muslims can do anything they want, it is just Christians that are selected as persecution and this has been going on for a long time.

 

Mikey, being a lawyer, chose to combat this effort by forming an organization to support an understanding of America’s laws and its Constitution, and in particular to endorse and defend the separation of church and state, which allows true freedom of religion, one of the fundamental premises of our land. That premise, the separation of church and state, is the one most attacked by the sect described above, because it makes impossible the realization of their goal.

There you go.  Mention the Constitution of the US and in the same sentence set forth the old “separation of church and state”.  No such part of our Constitution, not part of any of the amendments, a statement by Jefferson taken out of context.  Yet, used so often people really believe it is part of our Constitution or maybe one of the amendments.  Since they don’t teach civics in school anymore, no wonder our young people have no idea of what is and what is not in our Constitution and in the amendments to same.

 

You see, the freedom of religious choice actually allows, by definition, the choice of no religion, which is anathema to the true believer.

So you claim there are people with no religious faith or practice?  Maybe so, and if so, I support their right to believe what they may, but their rights do not supersede and/or replace my right to my own person religious freedoms.  You can’t have it both ways.  They have the right to believe and practice their “non-belief” yet want to impede my practice of my believe. 

 

Now, assuming you recognize that the premise of the organization is to ensure the freedom of religious or non-religious choice of all the women and men in our military, I hope you’ll also understand that we point out and stand against some things that might appear to you or to another Christian to be inconsequential, or you might see what we make an issue of as nit-picking, or silly, or, perhaps, anti-Christian. They are not.

I am not aware of any proof that any of the armed forces are trying to force anyone to believe anything.  State some proof of your claim.

 

 

One of the ways what I’ll call the ‘extremists’ move their project along is to take little steps that most people (most Americans who are religious being Christians) see as inoffensive or normal. So what if they want to add a Bible to a POW/MIA table, even though not all POWs and MIAs were Christians and the original POW/MIA tables did not include a religious artifact for that reason.

Hey, while in Vietnam on a remote fire support base, we had no access to PX or any other facilities to purchase needed items.  The army provided us with “Sundry Packs”, full of candy, cigarettes and other items.  They did not force us to use the candy or the cigarettes.  You were free to throw them in the trash.  Was the Army trying to get people addicted to tobacco?  No, they provided items needed by a large group of diverse people.  Throw it away if you don’t want it!  AND, if you don’t like a sign that says “God bless American”, look the other way.  I see things all the time that offend me.  Women with their breast hanging out.  Homosexuals practicing their “beliefs and freedoms” in public.  I simply look the other way.  Talk about a group that are trying to force their beliefs down my throat!!

 

But the separation of church and state means

Again, that old “separation of church and state”.  Please tell me the page number of any official document, constitution, or amendment that contains these words.  You see, you keep repeating it and repeating it and it does not exist!!!!!  But, say it enough and people will believe it.

that no official government body or organization can promote, promulgate, prefer or in any way show preference for one belief system over the others. While private groups, just like private people, acting on their own, are of course free to demonstrate their faith or practice their beliefs as they choose, within the limits of the law and military regulations, the government must be scrupulous in observing neutrality.

 

So, Santa Claus wearing a military uniform adorned with a badge saying “Christmas Force” and carrying a sign saying God Bless America may seem innocent fun to some, but to others it looks like Santa is an agent of the US Military and its Government and is praying to God.

Any idiot that thinks a blown up plastic Santa in a uniform is an agent of the US military has no right being in the armed forces.  He/she needs to seek professional help.  Get real people.  You are tilting at windmills.

 

That’s where we stand. I hope that helps.

And that’s where I stand.  I also took a look at your organization through Charity Navigator on line.  Not much info there.  How much does the retired BG receive in compensation?  Little things like how you spend your contributions would be nice to know.  Or, is this a great “charity” organization that proposes to represent the US Military while actually living a nice life off the contributions of poor suckers?  END OF COMMENTS  May you have a blessed day.  (Oh, did that offend you?  That I would hope that you would have a nice day?)

 

Best,

 

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)

(name withheld)… Seriously?… You’re going to try that old canard about the fact that the constitution doesn’t actually and textually state “separation of church and state?… I can give you millions of other examples of things that are well settled law from our Supreme Court based upon interpretation of the Constitution… See Marbury versus Madison my friend… The constitution also doesn’t contain the word “God“ any place… If you are arrested and tried by a court those people think the Constitution allows you to have a speedy public and fair trial… The constitution actually only SAYS public and speedy it does not say “fair“ any place… That constitutional right came from caselaw along with the other several million I told you about… I’m beginning to think you are merely a lost cause here… And you believe that somehow your version of Christianity has superiority over all other versions of Christianity and all other faiths and non-faiths…?! You are seriously wrong on these matters… It may be your poor education or your prejudice or some sort of combination of both that creates this repugnant ignorance… I don’t mean this to offend you but what you wrote to me right out of the box was very offensive… I’m not going to address anything else you mentioned above at this time… Thank you, Mikey W.

Hi (name withheld),

Sorry, I don’t remember you. We get a lot of messages, mostly from run-of-the-mill bigots and offended Christian supremacists, a significant number of whom turn out to be anti-Semites, so the themes tend to be repeated.

Apparently Mikey sent you a message i wrote for someone else in an attempt to clarify some points. That someone else was fairly straightforward and basically confused about a few things, so I decided to try to be helpful. You are not him.

You’ve chosen to respond to a message not intended for you, but you do so based on your own beliefs and I’m unclear what they are, other than the obvious. I assume, though, from what I get in reading your response, that you’re unhappy with the MRFF, don’t care much for me, are ignorant of a number of things and are intent on being argumentative. So this is probably a waste of my time, but for what it’s worth I’ll try to make a few points.

The separation of church and state is settled law. You don’t like that. Too bad.

Christian supremacists make no bones about their desire to make America a Christian nation and the military “Jesus’ Army” and are quite open about it. Don’t take my word for it; ask them.

I agree that military chaplains are quite often great people. There is, however, an on-going attempt to fill their ranks with Christian fundamentalists. We have some ex-chaplains among our supporters who know a lot about that, but you probably don’t want to check it out.

The MRFF does not “try to tear down Christians.” Our ranks are full of Christians. We do respond to a lot of the kind of Christians who, like yourself, feel Christians are being persecuted. I have a sense that some of  them have a kind of martyr complex and are looking for justification for it. They, like you, point out the cultural accommodations the military has made for some and, despite their majoritarian status, express their resentment for that “special treatment” and want the same kinds of accommodations. (I’m not sure a crown of thorns would be acceptable to the military, but you can try)

And again, since you beef about it a lot, the separation of church and state is settled law.

You say I “claim there are people with no religious faith or practice.” I didn’t claim it, I said it. I’m not sure of the point you’re making, but yes, hard as you apparently find it to believe, there actually are people with no religious faith or practice. And no one here is suggesting that their rights supersede or replace yours. We just want to be sure you understand that yours do not supersede or replace theirs.

 

“Proof of my claim,” you want? I didn’t claim the armed forces are trying to “force anybody to believe anything.” It’s not the armed forces doing it. But we have thousands of expressions of concern from women and men in the military who are subjected to unwelcome overtures about Christianity, lectures on Christianity, preaching on Christianity and impositions of Christian imagery and Christian artifacts in official government times and places by people in authority who have the power and do so in spite of its being against the law and military regulations. Their passion to spread the “Good News” apparently knows no bounds. Our job is to remind them that there are bounds. There are appropriate times, places and circumstances wherein that’s fine, but they are clearly designated. To do so outside those properly designated times, places and circumstances puts the government in the position of appearing to illegally support or endorse proselytizing on behalf of one belief system over others.

 

Candy and cigarettes? Don’t be an idiot. I’m sure you “see things all the time that offend” you. Fox News probably gives you a menu of them. But, unsurprisingly, you miss the point. Government sponsorship is the issue here. Remember? It’s about the separation of church and state you so want to deny.

 

It hasn’t been a pleasure.

 

Mike Farrell

(MRFF Board of Advisors)

So, since I don’t believe the same things you believe, I’m a “run-of-the-mill bigot” and a “Christian supremacists” and “anti-Semites”.  In other words, I am not allowed to have and express an opinion without being label by many derogatory labels, based on assumptions and lack of facts from the few sentences I wrote.

I did not ask for your email to be sent to me.  It was used as an argument to rebut my comments about the plastic Santa.  You will have to take your complaints to the one who forwarded it to me as background or support of their opinion.

I assure you are I none of the above.  I support the right of every person to have any religious belief they may chose to have.  It’s a free country.  However, I have as much right to express an opinion as some TV series actor who uses his fame to support his opinions.

How can you do away with any thing that offends a few people without stomping on the rights of the majority to believe and act on and support the things they believe?

You will never convince me that a plastic Santa, with or without a military uniform on, with a sign that says “God bless America” is such a horrible thing that needs to be destroyed, moved, or covered up.  There are many gods.  The “god” in the sign was capitalized because it is the beginning of a sentence but I am sure everyone in your group jumped on the fact that it was God and not god, making it a specific “god”, especially the horrible God worshiped by Christians.  As I told the other person, I have studied all the major religions.  I would gladly go back on active duty and fight to support the right of every American to worship whatever they want to worship, or not to worship anything.  However, just because a person is in the military does not take away their right to believe whatever they believe and to express their beliefs in any method they wish to use.

What is wrong with asking god or God to bless our nation?  If I say “good morning” to you, does that hurt you even if you are having anything but a “good morning”?  Can’t you just accept that as a kind remark by someone?  If I say “God Bless American!”, regardless of who I am or what I am doing, does that really hurt anyone’s rights?  I wonder if you also support removing “one Nation under God” from the pledge of allegiance?  Come on.  We can’t destroy the history of our nation no matter how many people try to do so.  We can learn from our mistakes.

I’m through.  Sorry you got caught up in this discussion against your will.  BUT, if we all strive to do away with anything that “offends” us, we will be living in a horrible society with few rights left to anyone.

You might do better in arguing your opinions if you do not stick labels on a person just because he does not agree with your opinion.  We all know what “assumptions”  do for you.

We are finished.  Please do not bother responding.  Let’s agree to disagree and I really enjoyed MASH although it became very political especially with “Hawkeye”.  But, it was a TV show, a fictional situation, and I took it for what it was and enjoyed it.  It reminded me a lot of many of my situations and experiences in the US Army.