Misquided

You are so misguided and almost as bad as the religious nut jobs.
 
I am a stone cold atheist yet firmly believe that when you go out of your way to protest all this nonsense you are just as bad as the idiots that think there is some god and related nonsense.
 
Grow up. The best way to rid our Nation of such superstitious nonsense is to ignore it. To challenge each and every thing is simply stupid and makes the idiots that subscribe to such stuff think there is something worth fighting.
 
To “fight” this stuff is just like fighting “voodoo” or some other stupid belief system.
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Jan 14, 2020, at 9:50 PM, Martin France wrote:
Mr (name withheld),
You’re very welcome to ignore the “religious nut jobs” but having suffered first-hand in my military career from their bigotry and privilege and (more painfully) seen the same thing happen to my sons when they served, I refuse to stand by idly while our Constitution is violated and the rights of honorable service members are trampled by Fundamentalist whack-jobs.  I prefer to learn from Martin Niemoller who said, in 1946:
 
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a SocialistThen they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 
Sincerely,
Martin France, PhD
Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)
MRFF Advisory Board Member

I can appreciate your fervor in not wanting to be a “victim” in such thinking but to my mind the only “victimization” comes when you give them power by thinking their way of thinking means anything.
By simply ignoring such things you do more to rid us of such stupid thinking. By disregarding the actions of the insane goes further to making them go away. To “fight” them only gives them reason to think they have valid positions.
Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, we will just have to disagree in the most effective method to get rid of all this suspicious thinking.
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
I suppose so, (name withheld). My guess (and it’s just a guess) is that you have not served in the military in the fundamentalist Christian environment that can destroy the careers of those that don’t feel the same way. If you had, you might feel differently. Like a leaky roof, I don’t think that ignoring some things makes them go away.. Thanks, though, for your response. Cheers, M

While not to prolong a discussion on opposing views, but with the same values at the base of it, I did serve in the military, in fact I retired from the U.S. Army, not as an officer but as an enlisted man. I honorable served in Viet-Nam and am very proud of my service.
I also retired as a Police Officer after serving 26 years. I am very conservative in politics.
While I have always been an Atheist and look upon such beliefs as resulting from childhood “brainwashing” nevertheless, I do not consider myself as ever having to “suffer” from the misguided beliefs of those that do subscribe to such beliefs.
If in a gathering that wants to “pray” I simply extend a courteous respect in silence. Never in my careers have I felt “victimized” by the religious beliefs of others. I hold such beliefs in contempt as the beliefs held by non-critical thinking individuals but that is the same way I currently look at what I deem the “Socialist Democratic” political party. Certainly not critical thinkers, smile.
I only submit this “rebuttal” as to advise that I was a proud member of the military but recognize that the poor misguided individuals that cling to a misplaced belief in some “god” are as much a victim as we are as we are in the minority. After all I like to point out to those that do attempt to engage in religious discussions that in the final analysis, they only have the religious orientation they have as a result of where they were born. If born in India they would probably be Hindu, if in Israel they would be Jewish, on and on. The point being religious belief is a result of their parents belief system more than anything else. My belief is that no intelligent, critical thinking individual can believe is such nonsense.
That being said, thank you for you thoughts. Much like politics, it is by and large a losing proposition to engage in discussions with fools, (and I am NOT saying you are a fool), by debating politics if you discuss it with someone that agrees with you – you are preaching to the choir. If you discuss it with the opposition no amount of facts or reason is going to convince them or change their mind.
Anyway, thank you for giving me a forum for voicing my opinion. We all have them and while we disagree on the tactics to rid ourselves of ignorance on this subject at least we are on the same page with respect to the stupidity of such beliefs.
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
Thanks again for the response, (name withheld), and also for your years of service.  We will disagree with the best way to right wrongs and infringement on rights and basic respect.  I will fight voodoo and ignorance and bigotry, if nothing else to hasten its demise.  I don’t for one minute think that religious bigotry will disappear in my lifetime–it’s so ingrained in humanity–but I can just  swim along hoping that by ignoring the sharks, they won’t someday decide to take more than a small chunk out of me and those that l love.  Have a great day.  M

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Jan 15, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Mike  wrote:
Hi (name withheld),
As far as we’re concerned, you’re as welcome to your cynicism as you are to your belief, or lack thereof. Believing in nothing apparently leaves you with a lot of time to judge others and criticize. “Stone cold” seems an apt description. How about minding your own business? –  assuming you have any.
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)

Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere
On Jan 15, 2020, at 6:48 AM, John Compere  wrote:


The US Constitution, American law & US Armed Forces regulations require our government to refrain from promoting or endorsing religion. Also, the Constitution provides secular oaths & prohibits any religious test. Even Jesus opposed sworn oaths (Matthew 5:34&37). Your critical comments would be more constructively directed at those who disrespect & disregard our laws rather than at those of us who respect & request compliance with them.
 
Please be assured the military members who request our representation in protecting their constitutional right to freedom of religion (or no religion) do not think it is misguided & nonsense. In fact, the Foundation has been officially nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize 7 times for this advocacy.
 
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation

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6 Comments

  1. Jared Atkinson

    If you give a mouse a cookie, he’s going to want a glass of milk.

  2. Grey One talks sass

    I learned as a child that to ignore a bully is to encourage them into more egregious acts. To fight and defeat them one must occasionally punch them in the nose. If that doesn’t work (but it usually does – we are talking about bullies after all) stronger measures may be necessary.

    TL;dr – ignoring an issue does not work.

  3. G

    Amazing how cops and conservatives are stupid and dumb.

  4. Infidel for Jesus

    G,
    It is amazing how liberals and atheists are absolute brain dead morons. I have know a lot of cops in my lifetime and they have neither been stupid or dumb. Yes there are always a few rotten apples in the bunch, but by and large they are very good at what they do. I just hope for your sake you never need a police officer to come to your aid whether you have been beaten and robbed, shot, a loved one sexually molested, car stolen, etc., for my advice to them would be to just ignore you and move on to someone else who would be more appreciative for being willing to put theirs lives on the line every day for complete strangers. #BacktheBlue

  5. G

    No, IFJ, it is the conservatives, right-wing Christians and cops who are brain dead moron. Wrong about most cops being good. If they were good, they wouldn’t have tolerated the bad cops, wouldn’t have looked the other way when bad cops violated people’s civil rights, and the blue wall of silence won’t even exist. They also wouldn’t be allowing themselves to be used as a private police force for the wealthy people and Corporate America ever since the police were created in America.

    Being a police officer has never been in the 20 most dangerous jobs in America. You want to talk about cops laying down their lives. Look at the cops in Central and South America and Italy where they get killed by organized crime and drug cartels and killing a cop doesn’t carry a negative stigma compare to in America.

    I have more respect for environmental activists, union activists, and journalists who lay down their lives considering the fact that many of their killers were police officers. Call the police when you need assistance. Yeah, sure you got many people or their loved ones who have been beaten, robbed, sexually assaulted, or shot when they have called the cops for assistance. In addition, you have many police family members who have been beaten and/or sexually assaulted and even murder by family members who were police officers.

    Many white Americans are now finally realizing that the police are not their friends after they were assaulted cops when they peacefully exercise their right to protest or refuse to answer police questions, etc.

  6. G

    IFJ, you haven’t met a lot of cops There are nearly a million cops in the USA and so it is impossible to meet a “lot” of them.

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