Separation of church and state?

The Constitution:
Amendment 1
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”
That’s it there is no other reference to religion in the Constitution, period.
So you atheist bunch of a-holes tell me where the separation of church and state occurs in the Constitution? You can’t and you know it. You rely on the ignorance of the public to back your sorry asses up. You’re just like the snowflake mentality of the millennial generation. Oh you’re so afraid someone will be offended, well screw you you offend me.
The whole separation of church and state nonsense is nothing but a leftist, read communist, way of destroying this nation. It references a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to religious group in New England. and the modern judiciary has done nothing but twist and twist and twist that to mean separation of church and state, bullshit.
If you bunch of pseudo intellectuals would stop and actually read the letters that the founding fathers wrote each other in the debate associated with the Constitution and the founding of this country you would find that these men were very religious. But that wouldn’t suit your narrative, would it?
You have your right to believe in nothing so let everyone else believe what they wish and stay the hell out of other people’s lives
Concerned American Patriot.

Response from MRFF Senior Research Director Chris Rodda
On Feb 4, 2020, at 7:29 AM, Chris Rodda  wrote:

 

Dear Concerned American Patriot …
 
It is true that the phrase “separation between church and state” comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a religious group. That group was the Danbury Baptists, who, being in Connecticut, where there was still a religious establishment that persecuted dissenters such as Baptists, had written of this persecution in a letter to Jefferson congratulating him on winning the presidential election. Jefferson, in his reply to these persecuted Baptists, expressed his wish that Connecticut would join the rest of the country in adhering to the First Amendment, which he called an “expression of the supreme will of the nation” that had built “a wall of separation between Church & State.” So, Jefferson was directly saying that the meaning of the First Amendment was “a wall of separation between Church & State.” 
 
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson, one of the most preeminent founding fathers didn’t know what the First Amendment meant?
 
Chris Rodda
Senior Research Director
Military Religious Freedom Foundation

Response from MRFF Board Member John Compere
On Feb 4, 2020, at 7:26 AM, John Compere  wrote:

 

Your malevolent & moronic message reflects only on yourself & reveals incredible ignorance of the US Constitution, American law & US Armed Forced regulations regarding separation of church & state. Even Jesus separated religion & government (see Matthew 22:21 & Mark 12:17). For your enlightenment, see my article on American Religious Freedom at militaryreligiousfreedom.org.
 
Brigadier General John Compere, US Army (Retired)
Disabled American Veteran (Vietnam Era)
Board Member, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (80% Christians)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Feb 4, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Mike  wrote:
Hi Mr. (name withheld)
 
I used to read about you in… what was it, Superman or Captain Marvel comic books. Never thought I’d have the chance to sort of “talk” to you in this way.
 
But I must say, there you were clever. This message sounds like it comes from a bonehead.
 
You don’t know about the way the law works? Things are proposed, things are challenged, rulings are made, laws result. The separation of church and state, even though it’s not articulated in the Constitution, is well founded in law, whether you like it or not. And, by the way, God isn’t mentioned in the Constitution either. Doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.
 
You assume we are atheists. Wrong again. “Leftists!” “Communists!” What are you, stuck in the 50s? I’ll bet you miss Joe McCarthy.
 
So here’s the deal. You get to bleat as much as you’d like. We get to continue to protect the freedom of religious or non-religious choice of the women and men in the military.You get to remain a troglodyte. We get to pity you.
 
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)

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10 Comments

  1. Mark Sebree

    To the original poster,

    There actually another reference to religion in the US Constitution. It is in the original text of the Constitution, and has never been altered by any amendment. Article 6, last clause, “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    This means, simply, that religion cannot be used to exclude anyone from any form of government service.

    Additionally, the 14th Amendment expands the scope of the Constitutional rights of the people and restrictions on the government to all levels of government, which means it modifies the applicability of the First Amendment’s clauses and restrictions.

  2. Tom O

    “Concerned American Patriot” is correct that the phrase “separation of church and state” is not in the Constitution. Neither are the phrases “religious liberty,” “religious freedom,” or “freedom of religion,” all of which theocrats regularly claim that the Constitution protects.

  3. Hi

    Tom O,
    We do have a freedom of religion and the free exercise of it according to the Constitution. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” What a dummkopf

  4. Hi

    Mark Sebree
    “This means, simply, that religion cannot be used to exclude anyone from any form of government service.” Well Democrat senators have not obeyed this when interviewing justice appointees, especially Diane Feinstein. When interviewing Amy Barrett she attacked her Catholic religion as maybe being a hindrance to her being a justice. Democrats are the biggest hypocrites.

  5. G

    No, HI, It is the Republicans who are the biggest hypocrites when you look at how they have attack and vandalizes Jewish and Muslim places of worship and attack abortion clinics and even murdering some of the people who work there. An abortion doctor was murder right on the doorstep of the church he was at.

    You have Mitch McConnell getting justice appointees on the bench without using the proper procedures and was pushing for candidates from a list that was given to him by the Federalist Society and too many of them have never served a day in court and will side with wealthy people and corporations over the common folks. You are such a dummkopf.

  6. Tom O

    Replying to Hi’s 4:47PM2/5 post: The same theocrats like “Concerned American Patriot” who repeatedly claim that the Constitution does not require separation of church and state because the phrase “separation of church and state” is not in the Constitution also
    repeatedly claim that the Constitution protects THEIR “religious liberty,” “religious freedom,” or “freedom of religion,” and THEIR supposed right to use the power of government to push THEIR religion on others. They never want to say specifically how they believe church and state should not be separate, because what they really want is unification of (THEIR) church and state. Another example of how theocrats think THEIR freedom overrides everyone else’s.

  7. Paula

    Concerned American(?) Patriot(???)– You’re the dimwit lying and twisting truths about the founders of the United States of America. Of course the founders were religious–it was the vogue at that time, and they were escaping the evils of a state religion in England. However, here is the news flash: THE MAJORITY OF THEM WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!! The majority, including T. Jefferson, were deists. NOT christians. Now, I know that you have heard that notion before, the idea that the founders were deists–one would have to be inept, profoundly mentally deficient, or an infant not to have heard that. But what do you do when it doesn’t fit your hypocritical agenda? Start pointing fingers at the adults here to take the heat off you. Sorry, Ace–it ain’t gonna work.

  8. Sage on the Hudson

    “‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…’

    “That’s it there is no other reference to religion in the Constitution, period.”

    Actually, beyond the First Amendment clause quoted above, there IS another, that precedes the First amendment, as it appears in the Constitution’s original text, in Article VI, Clause 3:

    “The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    If anything, that passage is the foundation and expression of the concept of separation between church and state even more than the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, as it specifically PROHIBITS any office-holder, on any level — federal, state or local — from being compelled to declare allegiance to a religion or of being bound by the tenets of a religion as a condition of establishing his or her allegiance to the United States and the office’s trust placed in them.

    In making such an egregious misstatement of fact, the writer of the above letter has demonstrated not only an abject ignorance of the Constitution, but of the Framers’ very purpose for having written it.

    The more these nitwits try to “prove” they’re right, the more thoroughly they prove they’re wrong.

  9. William

    Kudos to Chris Rodda for keeping his comments professional. Too bad the same cannot be said about the other members responses.

    While Thomas Jefferson was an influential signatory of the constitution, I think it would be a disservice to the word and spirit of the constitution, to base it on one persons writings alone. It is short sighted to rewrite this document, based only on assumptions. If you could speak to them today, I would be very surprised if they would endorse your points of view.

    While every person should have the freedom to choose to go, it is still within the commanders rights to follow his/her conscience as well. Just as it would be within any other commanders right to express support for a function, that followed any religion they believed in. If Buddhists had a National day of prayer, and the commander followed that religion, they too should have the right to express their personal views.

    The right, falls in favor of the individual to express their views, not to the person who wants to silence those views. It is listeners right to disagree, but not to quiet the views they disagree with. In that regard, I believe that your organization has gone against the freedoms that the constitution was meant to protect.

    Best Regards,
    William

  10. Grey One talks sass

    Ah William, such a long thought with not a lick of understanding.

    First – Chris is female, not male.

    Second – the rules regarding religion are different for civilians than for representatives of the government.

    As a civilian (aka off duty, not in uniform) a person has the right to express their personal faith just like every other citizen. When in uniform/on duty that person becomes a representative of the government. Any expression of ones faith when done from that position is promoting that specific faith and per the rules (aka Constitution and Bill of Rights) is not allowed.

    This is basic stuff William. How is it you get the topic so wrong?

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