STOP and breathe

Your argument about satan worshippers will then be able to use Army or Marine emblems on satanic worship symbols doesn’t hold water. The men and women who started this dream of a republic of the people by and for the people was based upon christian values and faith. Yourself and George Soros hates this country so much that you both are willing to burn it down. George Washington was a soldier of faith not to mention Sam Adams Paul Revere and Thomas Jefferson founded this country on judeo christian values.  Not any satanics fought against Great Britain for independence, if they were they are not prevolant enough to have been mentioned with our fore fathers. I know a lot of people are giving you hate money for your misguided crusade, and its not worth it. God didn’t do to you whatever has you angry with Him. Man did. He still is chasing after you and wants to show you the way. Christians have a right to freedom of speexh and expression. Repent! (which means 180° turn) from your ways. He is waiting for you with open arms. Use your resources to help children who are starving in war torn countries. Do good! Just bc you are and atheist doesnt mean its your job to attack religion. I enjoy lifting weights and staying fit. But I dont contantly go after people who are morbidly obese. Stop and breathe

Regards and blessings
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Founder and President Mikey Weinstein
hi, (name withheld)…I also enjoy weight lifting and working out…do it every day…that said, it appears that THAT is ALL we have in common, brother….your statements about me are quite libelous and I suggest you not repeat them to ANYone….I am NOT “willing to burn (America) down”….you have us all wrong…also, I am JEWISH…..as IF that’s any of your business…..Mikey W.


Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Feb 20, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Martin France wrote:
Dear Sir,
As an advisory board member for the MRFF, I occasionally respond to emails for Mikey and the MRFF–especially when they’re flooded with notes like today following Mr Robertson’s misinformed, biased, and silly rant against the organization. If you don’t mind, I’ll answer your note as if it were addressed to me, not Mikey, but I’m confident that he would feel similarly.  So, here goes…
Believe it or not, while many (even most) of those that helped form our nation were Christians, there were many (like Jefferson, for example) that were really Deists who did not believe in an “active and involved” God, but rather in some vague creating force (a deity) beyond comprehension.  There were many Jews in the US by then, too.  Many of the Christians also held widely varying beliefs that ranged from staunch Puritans and Calvinist through Roman Catholics, Lutherans, and all other flavors of Protestantism.  The differences among the latter groups, as you no doubt know, are not trivial and have been the causes of many wars over the Centuries killing millions.  (Note:  Some were so fervent in these beliefs that they burned their fellow citizens in Salem–a precedent not repeated until other Christians used that tactic against Black Christians in the Jim Crow days.)  Moreover, being BASED on Christian values isn’t the same thing as mandating or declaring the US a “Christian Nation,” any more than we could call it a Greco-Roman nation for also borrowing from the great philosophers of Athens and Rome.  In fact, the US took many of the best views of human rights, freedoms, and democratic government that were becoming popular in the secular Enlightenment of the 18th Century in places like Holland, France, Scotland, Ireland, England, and the German and Austrian principalities and empires, to form this more perfect union.
While I can’t speak for George Soros, I can affirm that I do not “hate this country.”  In fact (much like Mikey and his family), my family has a long tradition of service.  Every adult male in my direct line and my wife’s since 1900 and probably earlier have served in uniform.  I did so for “only” 41 years, with 37-plus on active duty.  Not sure where you get “hate” out of this.  In fact, I was in the Pentagon on 9/11 and in New York City defending against anthrax attacks five weeks later.  Three months later?  I was in Pakistan and a few years after that in Kabul. Pretty hateful of me to do all of that stuff, I know.  How about you, Rock?
As to attacking religion, nothing could be further from the truth.  We are simply advocating for the Constitutional rights that those you venerate so wisely chose to pen back in 1787.  They wrote a clause stating there should be no established state religion, but that all should be free to practice THEIR religion (not yours or Pat Robertson’s alone).  That freedom also extends to those that have no religion–and that group is the fastest growing “religious” group in America today.
What you may not have gathered from your own extensive military experience is any understanding of the hierarchical environment within the military and why, with good basis in Constitutional Law and supported by well-reviewed regulations, the military CAN legally place limits on how its members behave while in the workplace.  They cannot proselytize their subordinates.  They cannot discriminate against those under their command that don’t believe as they do.  They can’t mandate prayer or belief or attendance at events. I know this is getting long and I’m using a plethora of big words, but please read this excerpt from Air Force Instruction 1-1, “Balance of Free Exercise of Religion and Establishment Clause. Leaders at all levels must balance constitutional protections for their own free exercise of religion, including individual expressions of religious beliefs, and the constitutional prohibition against governmental establishment of religion. They must ensure their words and actions cannot reasonably be construed to be officially endorsing or disapproving of, or extending preferential treatment for any faith, belief, or absence of belief.” With what parts of that do you disagree?
I know this may beyond your mental faculties, but I’d like you to do try an exercise that calls upon you to practice one of the most Christian-like values I know:  empathy.  Let’s pretend that you’re NOT in the majority.  You are a young, 18-year-old female recruit in an Army unit and you were raised by a strong Christian family.  When you enlist, you find yourself in a unit that is somehow ALL Muslim.  Your day is interrupted several times as your commander calls all of you together and hands you a prayer rug to use, then instructs you on how you are to pray to Allah.  He suggests that you shouldn’t be in the military because the Koran says that that is not a woman’s place.  He invites you to post-sundown meals at his house for Ramadan and only seems to recommend those that attend his events for promotion.  He has a Koran open on his desk for all to see when they enter his office.  And, he orders custom-made dog-tags for everyone in the unit with the Army symbol (without copyright consent from the Dept of Defense) AND a verse from the Koran.  How would you feel about that, Rock?  Because, if we had no restrictions on religion in the military workplace, the exact scenario I describe above COULD happen.
Now, (name withheld), step back for a moment and think about the military and the sort of bias some face there–in a world in which the majority are Christians and some very powerful military members decide that they will use their power to promote THEIR religion within their unit.  In fact, Rock, almost EVERY DAY, the MRFF is contacted by someone or some group in the military that see the EXACT same events transpire in their unit as I describe above, but with a not-so-subtle twist.  Here’s my paragraph rewritten (note the changes in blue).  It’s something that happens all of the time and it’s not only Unconstitutional, it’s illegal:
“You are a young, 18-year-old female recruit in an Army unit and you were raised by a strong [insert non-Christian or non-mainstream Christian belief group here] family.  When you enlist, you find yourself in a unit that is somehow ALL Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian.  Your day is interrupted several times as your commander calls all of you together and  asks you to join hands and leads to pray to Jesus.  He suggests that you shouldn’t be in the military because the Bible says that that is not a woman’s place.  He invites you to Sunday and Holiday meals at his house and only seems to recommend those that attend his events for promotion.  He has a Bible open on his desk for all to see when they enter his office.  And, he orders custom-made dog-tags for everyone in the unit with the Army symbol (without copyright consent from the Dept of Defense) AND a verse from the Bible.  How would you feel about that, Rock?  Because, even with the Constitution’s Establishment Clause and Article 6 that restricts proselytization and religious tests in the military workplace, the exact scenario happens far too often.”
The overwhelming majority of MRFF clients are actually practicing Christians.  They are Christians that believe in the Constitution and do not want to see religion misused within a lethal government organization.  Or, sometimes, they are simply Christians that don’t believe EXACTLY as some of the more self-righteous think they should believe.  We work hard to protect all of those Christians and their right to believe and practice at the appropriate time and place.  And, we protect the rights of all other to serve honorably regardless of their religious perspective.
You can say we hate America all you want, but I’ll bet my 37 years of active duty service along with the 12 years my sons put in, the 20 my brother did, and the 34 my brother-in-law has served and is still serving, that our love for this Nation and its Constitution is every bit as strong or stronger than yours (or Pat Robertson’s).
If you have any additional questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.  If I’m made any typographical or grammatical errors above, I apologize in advance.  I’ve taken the liberty of attempting to correct your writing with the help of Google Translate with annotations below.  All suggested deletions are in [blue brackets].  Other additions are in blue.  Comments are in red.
Sincerely,
M France, PhD
Brigadier General, USAF (Retired)
MRFF Advisory Board

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 9:11 PM Martin France  wrote:
Thanks for the response, (name withheld).  My responses to yours are inserted into your paragraph below.  Ciao, Marty
First of all these people are not being forced to wear these symbols. And yes 20 fire service and 13 in the military. (In what role in the military?  I’m curious.  And again, thanks for serving in two such critical roles for 33 years)
The whole family served brother 20 and son 4. We can brag about service all day but thats not what we do. Its all boastful. I dont care about you or your service.  Thanks.  Much appreciated
My only concern is my country which I love.  Same here. You can care about America and not be a Christian.  In protecting my country, I’d also like to help protect the rights of ALL Americans.
Government not so much. I have no problem with you putting a star of David on your store bought dogtag. I am Jewish and as well. (And what? I don’t understand your last sentence here)
We are all sons of Abraham.  I don’t think so.  Is everyone of Asian Chinese descent a son of Abraham?  Every African?  Any daughters of Abraham or others?  I have zero confidence that I’m any descendant of someone from that part of the world and probably not of some mythical Bronze Age legend who almost murdered his son because he was hearing voices.  I’m not a creationist.  I’m not a believer in a literal interpretation of any religious text either.  But, you’re free to do so, and as long as that belief does not threaten my rights, I’ll defend your right to do so.
I would be proud if a muslim wanted to associate a symbol of his religion on a marine dog tag.
That’s not the point.  The point is using the Marine Corps’ TRADEMARKED and legally protected symbol from being used in a religious context or in any way they think is not Constitutional and appropriate. 
Our religion is stamped on our actual dog tags anyway last time I checked.  True, but those are the gov’t issued ones, not privately made ones for sale that conflate the service’s trademarked symbol with a religious verse that are then sold for profit.  THAT is the legal issue.
Everyone is so offended and sensitive nowadays. Boo hoo hoo! Fight for anti semitism im in. Racism im in. Taking away someone’s medal of comfort when there butt is being shelled and your buddy just got blown apart, thats petty. If they wanna wear it ,let them.
Again, no one is claiming that we should take away someone’s special medal of comfort.  We’re just saying that the Marines have a LEGAL RIGHT to disallow some companies from using their symbol when they make a product for sale and profit. Get your own Bible verse medal of comfort and keep it in your pocket.  I completely support your right to do this and the MRFF will defend your right to do this.  BUT, you can’t buy a product with the Marine Corps (or Army or USN or USAF or USSF) symbol without the permission of that service.  
All the pricey and lofty vocabulary words in the world or all the lawyering that exists does not ease their stress on the battlefield and  cant help our service members survive.
But it does protect the rights of those in the minority that may not believe as you do. 
But a little latitude when it comes to our troops wearing something they hold dear to their hearts.
Again, see my comment above.  You can carry all of the religious medals that your commander and back allow, but the Marines can still control who uses their symbol and for what.
Insult me all you want. And Jefferson didn’t worship the devil.  I didn’t say that, did I?  Please show me where I did.  I said he was a Deist, not an avowed Christian.
This country was built on [many] christian values. The bible tells you everything you need to know about everything. No, it doesn’t.  It’s math is terrible.  It can’t calculate the circumference of a circle correctly.  It doesn’t recognize that the Earth orbits the Sun.  It doesn’t tell me how to unravel DNA or cure cancer or ignorance.  Money time love loyalty stewardship etc. But not so much physics, math, biology, chemistry, etc, etc.
 And its very apparent in our early historical documents. Huh? Is Jesus mentioned in our Constitution?  Abraham?  God?
Adios Rambo

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Mike Farrell
On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:33 AM, Mike  wrote:

 

Hey (name withheld),
 
You know, this is so pathetic. What got your trousers in such an uproar? Was it that poor old man?
 
Nobody here is attacking religion, (name withheld). Nobody here is trying to take away anything from you or
your friends’ right to believe as you choose. We’re just intent on making sure everyone has the same right
and the U.S. Government isn’t tainted by association with one religious belief when Americans have
many different beliefs.
 
It’s a shame you didn’t understand Mikey’s point, but I find that some really zealous believers have a hard
time understanding anything that isn’t spelled out for them by members of the Club.
 
I suggest you take your own advice – take a deep breath and relax. There are lots of things to get
excited about if you choose. So choose something else.
 
Mike Farrell
(MRFF Board of Advisors)

Read the Bible man. It will speak to you. B.I.B.L.E. Basic instructions before leaving earth. Cover to cover. Abraham is the father of all nations. You are related to everyone like it or not. 6000 years ago there were very few ppl here compared to now. We’ve changed through climate, culture, waters, arid lands, starvation PHYSICS yes and time. Look closer. And what ever God did to you it wasn’t Him. It was the fallen angel that comes to kill steal destroy. The bible says do not cast your pearls among swine or dogs because they will rend you. So Im not gonna preach. Do your own research.

Shalom
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 11:08 PM Martin France  wrote:
Already read it. Cover to cover. KJV. Didn’t find it to be anything more than misogynistic semi-historical fiction and fantasy. A flood that covered the whole Earth and only one guy had a boat? Seriously? No one else had a BOAT? Stoning adulterers? Genocide? Not for me. I did decide to skip the Koran, though. Some cool poetry in Psalms, though, and great rock lyrics in Ecclesiastes. Reading the Bible convinced me that I’m an Atheist–that and too many years of being forced to go to church (Lutheran).

So man came between you and Jesus. Dont blame God for your parents being extreme. This A-hole (ooops)as you so eloquently put it had to almost die to get a clue, so im no better than you are. But I digress. Thanks for having the courage  to answer me. And thanks for calling me a name behind my back. I can respect you not wanting to sound unprofessional in person.
Have a good life
(name withheld)

Response from MRFF Advisory Board Member Martin France

On Feb 21, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Martin France wrote:

I really have no clue what you’re talking about. I strongly suggest availing yourself of the VA’s counseling services. Best of luck, M

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1 Comment

  1. Grey One talks sass

    It amazes me to read the hate spewing from a person who holds themselves in the highest regard as the final word in morality. **

    Where is the humility? Where is the compassion? Where is their empathy?

    The vile words of C4Z and their brethren lead me to believe they are not as familiar with their Lord and Savior as they claim.

    **with their ego they are indeed a legend in their own mind.

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