Hello (name withheld).
Thanks for your reply and I trust that you and your family are well.
I cannot actually recall a time after I was 6 or so when I actually believed in any of the clap-trap I was taught, any more than I believed in Santa Claus or elves or any other fantasies. Once I found they could not answer my questions with anything other than “Credo” I realized it was all a crock. What I saw and experienced myself and the experience of others, and what I have seen and learned since makes it clear I was correct in my early doubts — so there is really nothing to “come back” to, and particularly not a belief in the deity of a possibly historic 1st century Jewish rabbi, who whatever his positive teachings, has had his message (if any) twisted by those claiming to have sole knowledge of his teaching’s meaning (if any).
To give you a brief summary of my present and likely future position on religious belief and especially dogmatic religions:
I have mentioned the Founders and Framers and their attitudes towards these matters before. Again, here are some of my favorites:
As I have said previously these statements (particularly Mr. Paine’s) sum up my own position.
Also, your cognitive bias towards your own beliefs makes it impossible to deal with you and your “arguments” from a standpoint of logic and reason. Every time I make a point or demonstrate a truth and back it with irrefutable proofs in the form of historic and / or scientific documentation, you either ignore it and / or create a new straw man or red herring (both of which are also logical fallacies, BTW), or refer once more to your belief system.
Moreover, you continue to send dubious websites as “sources.” A prime example of this is your giving the website of the White Nations as a “reference” — I suppose you didn’t realize it, as you seem to be a nice lady, but these people are scum of the earth racial bigots and neo-Nazis — and in fact the site was created because the owner, Stanley Edward Diggs of Houma, LA (who sometimes posts under the pseudonym “Fred O’Malley”) was kicked off another neo-Nazi site, Vanguard News Network (VNN) for being a sexual deviant – which in fact he is, according to a Daytona Beach Morning Journal story that ran in 1985 about Diggs, then 34, titled “Rapist Gets 15 Year Prison Term.” The article reported that Diggs had been found guilty of sexual battery and burglary for forcing himself on a young woman in her own bed. “Diggs struck her on the head, knocked her down and choked her,” the article said, citing trial testimony. The story also reported that Diggs had been charged with aggravated assault earlier in Louisiana for “beating his ex-wife.” The VNN thread about Diggs’ past is labeled “‘Fred O’Malley’ is a Convicted Rapist.” Here is the link to the Daytona Beach Morning article:
So… you are sending me references for the “proof”of your theory to a neo-Nazi racist website run by a convicted rapist, one of whose posters (Stephen Lewis Akins of Jasper, AL) is a mentally ill pedophile — and you wonder why I have trouble with your sources…?
Also, you have never yet replied to the factual and proven material I have provided you with anything other than “scriptural” arguments.
As to the military and “sharing” religion and the potential effect on morale; the military is and always has been a top-down hierarchy which pressures its members to conform. This may even be justified in terms of the need for uniformity for success in battle. (I don’t necessarily believe that, but it is a fact that the military does have a “my way or the highway” attitude.)
Let’s pretend that a particularly militant strain of Christianity (Dominionism) isn’t the problem. In fact, let’s pretend that this isn’t a majority Christian nation.
How would you, as a sincere and devout practicing Christian, feel if you were in the minority, and your seniors were Muslims, or Hindus, or even Pagans or Satanists?
Let’s use the latter, for the sake of the discussion. Let us also assume that the Constitution is the same as it stands, and you (and they) have the right to your beliefs.
You have just been assigned for a tour to Ft. Lucifer. When you report in for duty, you find that your work-place has Satanist signs and materials scattered all over the place, and the 1st SGT has a statue of Beelzebub prominently displayed on his desk. The XO uses a Satanic screen-saver, and the CO’s office has a sign that says, WWSD? (What Would Satan Do?)
You attend a mandatory “all-hands” gathering of your unit, and find out that the “occasion” is Satan’s Birthday, and that the Satanist chaplain is the only one giving the invocation, in which he loudly and frequently mentions the name of Satan, asking for a show of hands of how many of you have “come to Satan?” or “Gotten Right with Lucifer?”
After your interviews and paperwork, your Satanist CO, XO, and senior SNCO “casually” invite you in “friendly” fashion to one of their Black Sabbaths. Would you accept? Let’s assume that you politely declined. Over the course of several weeks, you get more invitations, “suggestions” etc. You feel the pressure mounting up, but don’t want to say or do the wrong thing at your new station.
Meantime, your spouse is besieged with similar offers from the Ft. Lucifer Ladies Hell-fire Club, which is widely known as the most prestigious spousal group on base. Likewise, your kids are coming home from school with cardboard “horns” and “tails” and Devil-oriented stories and songs like “Baby Lucifer and the Nine Imps” they learned at the base pre-school, and asking why Christians like them and their parents will be cast into damnation for all eternity, etc. They will also be invited to “Deviled Egg” hunts, where they decorate eggs with colorful demonic designs, which are then hidden, along with Devil’s Food chocolate cake and candies and other goodies, for the kids to find at the annual “Beaster” celebration.
Let’s say that the constant barrage of “Satanist” materials is starting to disturb you, and you feel that the situation is getting out of hand, so you bravely say firmly to the CO, XO, and 1st SGT, etc. when next asked that you are a sincere and convicted Christian, and are thus theologically constrained from attending any of their functions, though you respect their right to believe as they choose, per the Constitution.
Now things turn ugly. You are given numerous dirty and unpleasant assignments, are treated unfairly, and given poor fitness reports. (At your last station, staffed mainly by tolerant agnostics and atheists, you had gotten outstanding reports, several meritorious citations, and even a Commendation medal for your outstanding work.)
Your peers and colleagues are now shunning you. Some do it because they are Satanists and don’t feel that you, as a Christian, are fit to associate with. Others are just afraid of being branded by association, and don’t fancy joining you on the endless shit details and lousy assignments, etc.
Finally you get fed up, and decide to complain formally, so you file a (supposedly) confidential complaint with the SEOO (Satanic Equal Opportunity Office) at 1700. The next morning, you are hauled into the CO’s office at 0800 and you see on his desk the supposedly confidential form you filed last night. There is a dark look on his face as he tells you, “We don’t want YOUR kind in this unit, Mister!”
The next day, you find yourself with orders to the combat zone. As you struggle to get ready for this, you and your family are besieged with last-minute efforts to get you all converted to the “correct” faith choice before it’s “too late.”
In desperation, you write your Congressman (Rep. Billy-Bob Bucktooth) for relief, only to find that good ole boy Billy-Bob is one of them. He writes back and says it serves you right.
After being sent into the Sandbox, you discover that not only is your new unit largely Satanist, but that your reputation has preceded you, because the CO is a member of the service-wide OSF (Officer’s Satanic Fellowship), whose motto is “Armed Ambassadors for the Prince of Darkness, Dragging New Souls to Hell Daily, World-wide — Whether They Want to Go or Not!” — and your old CO has given him a call about you…
However, the new guys don’t even try to convert you. They just issue you a beat-up pack and dubious rifle, and some bloody body-armor, and shove you towards the front. You are excluded from the Satanic “prayer pentagram” huddles that the other guys go into before battle, and they all give you dirty looks as they pass by afterwards.
One night, you are given a “blanket party” in your bunk. You are attacked by a number of men, all wearing balaclavas so you can’t see their faces. They attack when you are sound asleep, and hit and kick you brutally. You fight back as best you can, but there are too many, and they hit you before you know what is happening. You are hospitalized with multiple contusions and lacerations. During your hospitalization, the medics and doctors and nurses pretty much ignore you, and when you ask for pain meds, they tell you; “Oh WAH!! Why don’t you just try praying to Jesus and see how that works out for you?”
You try to file charges, but are met with attitudes ranging from complete indifference to open hostility. “Did you see your attackers? Can you identify them?” etc. The “investigation” of the incident is clearly a whitewash, and a cover-up. You have nowhere to turn to.
Meanwhile, you get word from home that your wife has been kicked out of base housing, and isn’t being given her allowances. She says she just can’t take any more. She has gone home with the kids, and is filing for divorce.
THEN you are assigned to “permanent point.”
You are ostracized, bullied, and all alone. You KNOW it is against the Constitution and federal law and the UCMJ, but you have exhausted all your remedies…
Then someone who isn’t one of them (though he has to pretend to be to avoid being treated like you) tells you about an outfit called the MRFF… you call the number given, and before you know it, the MRFF is acting on your behalf. They file a case on your behalf, send your wife critically needed funds, and have arranged for you to be sent to another more tolerant unit while your case is being examined by the Army and DoD.
“But that’s only fiction!” you might say. We wish it was — but substitute “Dominionist Christian” for “Satanist” and you have the kind of case MRFF deals with daily.
I hope that this material and examples of what the MRFF deals with will serve to enlighten you as to the true nature of what is being done, and what the MRFF is really all about.
I also hope you will re-read the material below I sent earlier, particularly as regards the nature of Dominionism — which many sincere, devout, and genuine Christians describe as “not biblical.”
If, on the other hand, you are OK with this kind of illegal and unconstitutional behavior, then you are, as I said, part of the problem. You may certainly BELIEVE our country “needs” to “follow
your God’s teachings through his son Jesus Christ.” You can believe it all day, every day.
However, no member of the armed forces may attempt to force or even strongly influence others (especially subordinates) to believe as you or they do — as long as they are an active duty member. Once they resign or retire, they may attempt to influence anyone they please to believe as you do, as that will again be their right — unless the other party tells them (or you) to shove off — which is THEIR right.
The MRFF supports the serviceman or woman’s right to choose and practice their faith in an appropriate fashion in accordance with the Constitution, federal law, and the UCMJ.
As to finding peace, I submit that it is not I who needs peace, but you. As I have said, I love my wife and family, my home, the area in which I live, and the life I lead. I am content with all of it. I do not envy anyone, or wish to be anyone else, or anywhere else.
As to your dire warnings of future trouble — mankind has always shown no end of capability for creating their own problems, and the present is no different from the past — other than in the weapons mankind now possesses, which are for the first time capable of planetary destruction.
As to the times of turmoil you posit, while they may occur, I am as well and perhaps better prepared than most to survive them, having already survived the Hell that was combat, particularly at Khe Sanh. (Though survival might not be a good thing, especially in a nuclear scenario). If the need arises, though I have absolutely no wish or desire to re-engage in combat or to kill or even harm any one or anything, I am armed, trained, and can defend my home and people if the need arises. And if I die in the attempt, I am not afraid to do so, because although I lack your belief in an afterlife, I am content with the one I have lived, and if one must die (and we all must), there is no better way to do so than in defense of those you love.
I also believe that if there are any “paths” there ARE many – unlike your own rather narrow POV on this score — and no, I don’t believe that your particular interpretation of your faith of choice has any more likelihood of reality than any other — but even if I did share your basic belief (Christianity), I am quite certain that my view of it would remain quite different from your interpretation — which is whyn there are about 40,000 sects and denominations of Christianity — let alone any of the thousands of other faith beliefs.
In closing I wish YOU the joy and peace you obviously lack — judging both from your clearly terrified writing and other posts of yours I have seen around the Net. If your belief is so strong, and you believe your interpretation of deity has so much power, then you must surely realize that all the things you obsess about (Apocalypse, etc.) will happen and there is nothing YOU can do about it one way or another — except to desperately hope you chose right.
And if you ARE right, you should have nothing to fear, and no reason to obsess about the President, the government, the actions of the MRFF (which has nowhere near the clout you and your fellow-believers ascribe to it — outside of the right afforded to it by adhering to the Constitution).
You need have no fears — IF you are right — because then you will be with your deity, right…?
However, as I mentioned, you must enquire of the MRFF if you have any more concerns or questions.
I remain,
